Can MBT Arjun be called ‘truly' indigenous?

[Tom M]

And of course you would defend your own failure. What else could you do now except self denial.

Who said those are failures ???? You have only Indian media and data provided (rather fed) by our MoD and Army to quote right about Arjun or Tejas ???? Yet, they never scrapped neither the products nor the projects. Does that ring any bell ?????

 

[GURU DUTT]

Or may be your enemy is more clever than you think

surprise surprise ... im so sacred

 

[bananarepublic]

Well its not like we are gonna meet them in the battlefield as they will breakdown on the way ..

 

[MimophantSlayer]

lolzzz, for that they have some other reasons. It requires 4 men to operate while T-90 takes only 3, T-90 is lighter with a 950 hp engine which consumes considerably less fuel than 1400 hp engine of Arjun and still it is not ready and IA expects more delays. That's only what is publicly available..I think there are even more issues which they do not want to make public.

Actually it is the other way around.
We have been made aware of too many of Arjun's deficiencies in the last decade, but its triumphs secretly got brushed under the rug.

For example when Arjun was being continuously lambasted and then T-90s were pitted against the Arjuns; post the trials the Arjuns were still being crucified in the media and everywhere else.

But then the CAG report came and popped everyone's bubble.
And unsurprisingly enough we saw no major response from all of those people who were ready to ditch Arjun just months before.
They just let the hype die down and then went back to their rhetoric after a while.

Arjun also performs better owing to the 1400hp engine.
Almost every military in the world that operates tanks are looking to scale upto 1300-1500HP engines, including if I am not mistaken pakistan.

As for 4 vs 3 member crew.

Why Tanks Need 4 Crew Members, Not 3
By
COL. RICH CREED, U.S. ARMY
on March 15, 2018
T&P ON FACEBOOK


Having spent a lot of time on tanks, I would argue that pursuing technical solutions that don’t account for the human dimension of sustained ground combat is a mistake. The four-soldier crew gives flexibility that three cannot.

Pulling local security is a real requirement inside a tactical assembly area. Doing so while maintaining weapons, conducting maintenance, eating, and getting some sleep is already tough. When in radio listening silence you need a runner, and during tactical road marches you need an air guard.

Tankers actually dismount more often than one might think. They often must ground guide their vehicles through constricted terrain. Someone must often get on the ground to talk infantry or others, not on one’s radio net.

Maintenance is a physically demanding team sport, and everyone in the crew plays a role in it. More hands make heavy work less so. Having three on your crew is really not that rare given the vagaries of the personnel system, so most crews have dealt with that problem during training. Their opinion about four being better than three is well informed by personal experience.

Stuff stops working on big complicated vehicles all the time and you generally train to work around fire control system failures and the loss of a crewman. How you could work around a broken autoloader is difficult to imagine. You can fight a manually loaded main gun even without turret or engine power. One assumes an automatic loader requires power.



When replacing track on an Abrams a four-person crew can get by, but smart platoons generally pitch in as a team effort. It is a miserable experience, regardless, especially under field conditions in bad weather. Recovery of damaged or broken vehicles is also a lot easier when you have more hands. And local security remains a requirement during recovery operations, so every soldier matters.


Col. Rich Creed is director of the Army’s Combined Arms Directorate at Fort Leavenworth, Kansas. A career armor officer, he has deployed to Bosnia, Iraq and Afghanistan. This article represents his own views, which are not necessarily those of the U.S. Army or the Department of Defense.


https://taskandpurpose.com/army-tanks-crew-members/

 

[Tom M]

Actually it is the other way around.
We have been made aware of too many of Arjun's deficiencies in the last decade, but its triumphs secretly got brushed under the rug.

For example when Arjun was being continuously lambasted and then T-90s were pitted against the Arjuns; post the trials the Arjuns were still being crucified in the media and everywhere else.

But then the CAG report came and popped everyone's bubble.
And unsurprisingly enough we saw no major response from all of those people who were ready to ditch Arjun just months before.
They just let the hype die down and then went back to their rhetoric after a while.

View attachment 463506


Arjun also performs better owing to the 1400hp engine.
Almost every military in the world that operates tanks are looking to scale upto 1300-1500HP engines, including if I am not mistaken pakistan.

As for 4 vs 3 member crew.

Great reply. Facts on bulls eye, comprehensive yet brief. Couldn't have put together any better.

 

[IndianIronFist]

Lesser the IQ, happier the lot !!! Lolz...

 

[war&peace]

What facts ??? Where you quote the stories from Indian media and our Defense forces and MoD, huh ???? Do you have a single solid fact beyond that to back your narrative ???? LOL

I'm not a gangadeshi who have the habit of creating facts from their rears. Use your sources to show you the mirror in Urdu "tumhara jooti tumhara sar"

Lesser the IQ, happier the lot !!! Lolz...

Another Einshitein from the block... what about the top 10 countries: Norway, Sweden, Finland, Switzerland, ....they all have lesser IQ right? Because they are far more happy rather the happiest in this world...

 

[xyxmt]

tell me

1.are pakistani tax payers paying for R&D of Arjun MBT ... NO

2. are pakistani scientist are working on Arjun MBT...no

3. are Pakistani army Going to induct Arjun MBT...no

then why are you botherred why and how it is made logic says if your enemy is making a mistake you should keep quite about it and dont talk about it with him but why are you doing the opposite

of wait are you pareified by Arjun MBT

Are Indians on Pakistan defense forum = YES

 

[war&peace]

surprise surprise ... im so scared

Guru jee ma ne tu apko draya hi nahi?? Ap billawajah hi dar jata ha

 

[Trango Towers]

From 31% to 45%...
& 45% is better than 0%

But why call it indeginous....do u know what that means

 

[Tom M]

I'm not a gangadeshi who have the habit of creating facts from their rears. Use your sources to show you the mirror in Urdu "tumhara jooti tumhara sar"

So you do agree that you don't have any data/facts to back your claim that our machines are junk other that what is provided (rather fed) to the media by our MoD and Defense forces, right ????? I wonder whether you guys even know the meaning of the phrase "to keep a low profile".

 

[Tom M]

But why call it indeginous....do u know what that means

Because the design and development is completely done by our scientists. So yes, just like Saab Gripen is very much Swedish Indigenous product. The entire design of our products are done in-house. Now it is the discretion of the designer and Manufacturer to import or make various parts. It's all about the flexibility and integration of various subsystems.

 

[Trango Towers]

Because the design and development is completely done by our scientists. So yes, just like Saab Gripen is very much Swedish Indigenous product. The entire design of our products are done in-house. Now it is the discretion of the designer and Manufacturer to import or make various parts. It's all about the flexibility and integration of various subsystems.

Saab do not jump around like you Indians saying it's indeginous and Saab products work and the Swedes along with the rest of the world value them unlike Indian rubbish. So make comparisons with something that reflects your achievements not the likes of Saab

 

[GURU DUTT]

But why call it indeginous....do u know what that means

 

[Tom M]

Saab do not jump around like you Indians saying it's indeginous and Saab products work and the Swedes along with the rest of the world value them unlike Indian rubbish. So make comparisons with something that reflects your achievements not the likes of Saab

Sure, they won't. But why ???? Because SAAB is a private limited company not a Nation. A company may very well claim their products to be innovative never indigenous. Go ahead and learn the meaning of the term "Indigenous" first before coming up with your absurd trolls.

Regarding the quality of the machines. You don't have any other facts/data other than the one provided (rather/fed to the media) by our MoD and Defense services to back your claims. The same was the history of T-34 Tanks of U.S.S.R before the WW-II started. Few hawks within U.S.S.R military even wanted to scrap the project completely during it's initial phase. Yet it proved to be the most successful Tank of the whole war that Hitler himself said.

“If I had known about the T-34, I would have delayed invading Russia”

http://dighist.fas.harvard.edu/projects/russiaglobal/exhibits/show/objects/politics/t34

But yes, you can very well go ahead and claim our Tank as Junk or whatever you want, but we have enough facts in hand that it had seriously our performed the Tier one Tank in our Arsenal, i.e. T-90 on multiple occasions.

P.S: We are more than happy that our adversaries completely trust the news about our equipment's provided by our Defense to the media. It's always in our best interest. LOL