You are the one who is flame baiting, not the non-Indian posters.
Breaking News! Bangladesh China signed a contract worth $ 1 billion For BAF
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Silent but 'accurate to hunt' due to electromagnetic waves coming from prop. as this is electromagnet based.
China’s new submarine to revolutionise undersea warfare
RIM DRIVEN THRUSTER: Shown here is a Schottel built rim-driven thruster, used to propel with minimal noise.
CHINA has developed an ultra-quiet submarine engine that uses a “shaftless” pump-jet and a revolutionary silent propulsion system to evade its adversaries. This was reported by the Chinese state media recently.
Chinese state TV channel CCTV 13 broadcast an interview with a top Chinese naval engineer, Rear Admiral Ma Weiming. The admiral is notably responsible for the development of multiple Chinese naval electromagnetic programmes, including the electromagnetic catapult and rail guns. In the interview, he stated that the PLAN is fitting its newest nuclear attack submarines with a “shaftless” rim-driven pumpjet, a revolutionary and silent propulsion system.
Silent propulsion system
Rear Admiral Ma Weiming, China’s top naval engineer, is notably responsible for the development of multiple Chinese naval electromagnetic programmes, including the electromagnetic catapult. He said the Chinese navy is adding a “shaftless” rim-driven pump jet, a revolutionary and silent propulsion system to their newest attack submarine, the Type 095 SSN.
This electric drive is an attempt to leap beyond current submarine technology to technology with a long history of attempted development. This is similar to China making a stronger commitment to develop a submersible arsenal ship. China is taking technology and designs with decades of history and actually implementing them.
By removing the shaft of the propeller, the reduction in the number of moving parts decreases the noise made by the pumpjet, as well as saving hull space. Smaller civilian rim driven electric pumpjets are easier to maintain, and have less cavitation (bubbles that form during propeller movement), which make them even more quiet.
Catching up to the West
Some U.S. naval analysts believe china’s new type 093b nuclear-powered attack submarine is on par with the U.S. Navy’s improved Los-Angeles class boats.
Is China’s new Type 093B nuclear-powered attack submarine on par with the U.S. Navy’s Improved Los Angeles-class boats? At least some U.S. naval analysts believe so and contend that the introduction of the new People’s Liberation Army Navy (PLAN) submarines is an indication of just how quickly Beijing is catching up to the West.
“The 93B is not to be confused with the 93. It is a transition platform between the 93 and the forthcoming 95,” said Jerry Hendrix, director of the Defense Strategies and Assessments Program at the Center for a New American Security—who is also a former U.S. Navy Captain. “It is quieter and it has a new assortment of weapons to include cruise missiles and a vertical launch capability. The 93B is analogous to our LA improved in quietness and their appearance demonstrates that China is learning quickly about how to build a modern fast attack boat.”
Ring-shaped electrical motor
A rim-driven pumpjet has a ring-shaped electrical motor inside the pumpjet shroud, which turns the vane rotor (a vane rotor has the fan blades attached to a rotating band built on a cylinder interior, as opposed to a propeller shaft) inside the pumpjet cavity to create thrust. Previous submarine pumpjets are “shrouded propellers,” which consist of a tubular nozzle covering the propeller. By removing the shaft of the propeller, the reduction in the number of moving parts decreases the noise made by the pumpjet, as well as saving hull space. Civilian manufacturers also claim that rim driven pumpjets are easier to maintain, and have less cavitation (bubbles that form during propeller movement), making them even more quiet.
THE ADMIRAL AND THE PUMPJET: During his interview on state television, Admiral Ma Weiming, developer of the rim-driven pumpjet, shows off a laboratory, with a schematic of the pumpjet visible in the background, at right. —-CCTV 13
If the system is put on the latest vessels, it is likely to be used on the first Type 095 nuclear attack submarine (SSN).
Integrated electrical propulsion
CCTV13 had a “Focus on the interview” segment on May 30, 2017. They discussed the of electric propulsion technology power of Admiral Ma Weiming. There was some discussion of the technology and spin about how China was moving beyond copying to attempt to create breakthroughs. The first few minutes of the video discussed telecommunication switching work of Zhang Ping.
Also in the video background was a large piece of electrical machinery, which is part of Integrated Electrical Propulsion System (IEPS). IEPS turns all the output of the ship’s engine into electricity, unlike traditional propulsion designs, which convert engine and reactor output into mechanical action to turn the propeller shaft.
The high electrical output can be used to power motors for the propellers or potentially high-energy weapons. Additionally, IEPS has far fewer moving parts, making them quieter, and thus ideal for use on submarines. When coupled with quieter reactors like the Type 095’s reported natural circulation reactor, the rim-driven pumpjet and IEPS can drastically reduce the acoustic signature of any SSN.
Stealthiest
In June 2016, China’s navy released a clear photo of its newest, stealthiest nuclear attack submarine (SSN) being loaded with missiles. China’s nuclear submarines are among the most catching up to the West secretive Chinese military platforms—it’s a rare event to have even a photo of a 40-year-old Type 091 Han submarine, or the Type 092 Xia nuclear ballistic missile submarine. So an official photo of a modern Type 093B submarine is big news.
The VLS cell gives the Type 093B an advantage over older Chinese attack submarines since instead of launching cruise missiles from the torpedo tubes, it can more quickly launch missiles from the VLS. The larger size of VLS cells also makes them a good place to launch future underwater robots and UAVs.
A famous American science magazine says the engine resembles the engine used by the Soviet submarine in Tom Clancy’s book (and, later, the 1990 film), “The Hunt For Red October.”
—Internet
http://www.weeklyholiday.net/Homepage/Pages/UserHome.aspx?ID=8&date=0#Tid=14201
LeGenD
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That acoustic rating is of the (improved) Kilo 636 class. It is Chinese assessment and this is the source: http://gentleseas.blogspot.com/2016/10/submarine-noise.html
More about Kilo 636 class:
Type 636 is designed for anti-submarine warfare (ASW) and anti-surface-ship warfare (ASuW) and also for general reconnaissance and patrol missions. The Type 636 submarine is considered to be to be one of the quietest diesel submarines in the world. It is said to be capable of detecting an enemy submarine at a range three to four times greater than it can be detected itself.
Source: http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/kilo/
In 1997, an improved version of the Kilo class was introduced as the Project 636 Varshavyanka in Russia or the Improved Kilo-class Submarine in the West. Externally the only difference of the I-Kilo from the Kilo is that it is longer by around 1.2 m in length.
Internally and in terms of performance, the I-Kilo has a more powerful Diesel Generator, longer Snorkeling Range and better Acoustic Stealth capability. The latest version of the I-Kilo is the Project 636.3 which is the same one sold to Vietnam in 2009 with even better stealth capability.
Source: https://rhk111smilitaryandarmspage....ilo-class-submarines-for-the-philippine-navy/
The 636 type Kilo is significantly stealthier and has a greater maximum range than the 877 type Kilo (Global Security, 2013)
Source: https://manglermuldoon.blogspot.com/2013/12/chinas-anti-access-strategy-submarine.html
Quick to jump to conclusions, aren't you? Same goes for all those who thanked your post without doing their homework. Shows the mindset...
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Please understand that I am absolutely neutral about this matter. I will take any report seriously, if it is well-written, informative and grounded in various facts/evidences/observations (Chinese or American - doesn't matters to me).
If a Chinese product is good, I will appreciate it. For example, GREE has grown over me with its Viola series DC inverter. They are a bit expensive but you have to pay for quality.
When I write my own article, I do not discriminate among the sources on the grounds of them being Western or Chinese; I take whatever helps my argument. I do not critic Chinese sources (only).
Next time I will critic a Western source, I will mention you in the post. Happy?
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Michael Corleone
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No shit.... we don't know? We are Pakistanis here yeah?.....
Says the girl from one of the most underfunded military for its size...... even when the economy is doing good.
LeGenD
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DISCLAIMER: Not a single word is mine below in italic.
Generally speaking, Chinese nuclear submarines are significantly louder and less capable than their American and Russian counterparts.
"the 093’s noise level has been reduced to that of the Russian Akula-class submarine at 110 decibels. He states that the 094’s acoustic signature has been reduced to 120 decibels. According to this report, this is definitely not equal to that of the Ohio class, but is on a par with the Los Angeles. There is no additional information given to evaluate concerning the origins or comparability of these 'data.'" - Andrew S. Erickson & Lyle J. Goldstein, 2006.
As a reminder, a decibel is: "a unit used to measure the intensity of a sound or the power level of an electrical signal by comparing it with a given level on a logarithmic scale" - American English in Oxford dictionary, 2013.
Decibels do not scale linearly. A 3db change is signifies a doubling power and a change of 10 db signifies the power increasing by a factor of ten. Therefore, the 636 Kilo class with an acoustic signature of 105 decibels is 10 times as loud as the 95 decibel acoustic signature of the Virginia class submarine.
To provide a point of reference, the following acoustic signatures are from "Chinese Evaluations of the U.S. Navy Submarine Force" and "CHINA’S FUTURE NUCLEAR SUBMARINE FORCE"
Ocean background noise - 90 decibels
Seawolf-class - 95 decibels
Virginia-class - 95 decibels
636 Kilo class - 105 decibels
Akula-class - 110 decibels
Type 093 - 110 decibels
Type 094 - 120 decibels
The Shang has an acoustic signature similar to the original Russian Akula class boats or roughly equivalent to the original Los-Angles class submarine, not the 688I (improved Los-Angles class). Judging from acoustic signatures, the most modern Chinese nuclear submarines are comparabile to 1970s and 1980s US and Soviet designs shown on the chart below.
Source: https://manglermuldoon.blogspot.com/2013/12/chinas-anti-access-strategy-submarine.html
Generally speaking, Chinese nuclear submarines are significantly louder and less capable than their American and Russian counterparts.
"the 093’s noise level has been reduced to that of the Russian Akula-class submarine at 110 decibels. He states that the 094’s acoustic signature has been reduced to 120 decibels. According to this report, this is definitely not equal to that of the Ohio class, but is on a par with the Los Angeles. There is no additional information given to evaluate concerning the origins or comparability of these 'data.'" - Andrew S. Erickson & Lyle J. Goldstein, 2006.
As a reminder, a decibel is: "a unit used to measure the intensity of a sound or the power level of an electrical signal by comparing it with a given level on a logarithmic scale" - American English in Oxford dictionary, 2013.
Decibels do not scale linearly. A 3db change is signifies a doubling power and a change of 10 db signifies the power increasing by a factor of ten. Therefore, the 636 Kilo class with an acoustic signature of 105 decibels is 10 times as loud as the 95 decibel acoustic signature of the Virginia class submarine.
To provide a point of reference, the following acoustic signatures are from "Chinese Evaluations of the U.S. Navy Submarine Force" and "CHINA’S FUTURE NUCLEAR SUBMARINE FORCE"
Ocean background noise - 90 decibels
Seawolf-class - 95 decibels
Virginia-class - 95 decibels
636 Kilo class - 105 decibels
Akula-class - 110 decibels
Type 093 - 110 decibels
Type 094 - 120 decibels
The Shang has an acoustic signature similar to the original Russian Akula class boats or roughly equivalent to the original Los-Angles class submarine, not the 688I (improved Los-Angles class). Judging from acoustic signatures, the most modern Chinese nuclear submarines are comparabile to 1970s and 1980s US and Soviet designs shown on the chart below.
Source: https://manglermuldoon.blogspot.com/2013/12/chinas-anti-access-strategy-submarine.html
It is not about BD Moon mission. It is about military purchase from China which has been happening time to time. Well, have someone from BD claimed that the GoB has confirmed the deal? No. Usually, our DGFI is quite secretive for obvious reasons. We all will know ultimately about the delivery, but with piecemeal information. Our newspapers do not cherish military displeasure by printing purchase/procurement news like India and Pakistan do fondly.
For now, we are happy to read the purchase news that has surfaced in a foreign press. But, we are unhappy that Indian Ms. Sushma Swaraj is coming to Dhaka, probably to dissuade BD from purchasing. Why? Because India thinks itself to be a champion friend of BD. It is disgusting.
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What Chinese source? I have not see any official Chinese source releasing about kilo noise level. Those are just some random blogger using their own analysis and blog it. It can be claim as Chinese source?
Fact is, Chinese has go beyond the level of Kilo and stop buying anymore of it. They produced a better domestic version as Yuan AIP. With even export to PN and RTN.
These American source are very biased and misleading. I still remember they published a chart claiming Type095 noise level Is even worst off than LA class in 2014. The funny thing is Type095 is not even build and somehow magically the American is able to know the noise level of type 095?DISCLAIMER: Not a single word is mine below in italic.
Generally speaking, Chinese nuclear submarines are significantly louder and less capable than their American and Russian counterparts.
"the 093’s noise level has been reduced to that of the Russian Akula-class submarine at 110 decibels. He states that the 094’s acoustic signature has been reduced to 120 decibels. According to this report, this is definitely not equal to that of the Ohio class, but is on a par with the Los Angeles. There is no additional information given to evaluate concerning the origins or comparability of these 'data.'" - Andrew S. Erickson & Lyle J. Goldstein, 2006.
As a reminder, a decibel is: "a unit used to measure the intensity of a sound or the power level of an electrical signal by comparing it with a given level on a logarithmic scale" - American English in Oxford dictionary, 2013.
Decibels do not scale linearly. A 3db change is signifies a doubling power and a change of 10 db signifies the power increasing by a factor of ten. Therefore, the 636 Kilo class with an acoustic signature of 105 decibels is 10 times as loud as the 95 decibel acoustic signature of the Virginia class submarine.
To provide a point of reference, the following acoustic signatures are from "Chinese Evaluations of the U.S. Navy Submarine Force" and "CHINA’S FUTURE NUCLEAR SUBMARINE FORCE"
Ocean background noise - 90 decibels
Seawolf-class - 95 decibels
Virginia-class - 95 decibels
636 Kilo class - 105 decibels
Akula-class - 110 decibels
Type 093 - 110 decibels
Type 094 - 120 decibels
The Shang has an acoustic signature similar to the original Russian Akula class boats or roughly equivalent to the original Los-Angles class submarine, not the 688I (improved Los-Angles class). Judging from acoustic signatures, the most modern Chinese nuclear submarines are comparabile to 1970s and 1980s US and Soviet designs shown on the chart below.
Source: https://manglermuldoon.blogspot.com/2013/12/chinas-anti-access-strategy-submarine.html
From the latest news Type095 is equipped with electric shaftless drive which will be ahead of anything the American field. I think I do not need to remind you all the asdvantage of shaftless electric drive compare to conventional electric drive.
This kind of western source chart is nothing but self praising with little credibility intend to sell American product with a lot of misleading info. I will have a good laugh if somebody going to take this thing as golden standard.
Another misleading and sourgraped statement. I will not be surprised you will start to claim mig-21 is more stealthy than F-22/J-20.
Ignore him. He is a Western boot licker like a few
other idiots on this thread.
Their views are shaped by their own sense of inferiority.
They are fake Muslim. They will not hesitate to convert to Christian to do the bidding of the west. As they will feel superior. The west has been terrorsing the Muslim with crusader, colonies the Muslim countries and yet these fake Pakistanis still worship them.
foxtrot1
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listen kid,
the stealth is due to RAM and it's geometry to reflect the radar waves in aircraft. In water, the prop is using electromagnet which will use electricity in megawatts. This will produce eddy currents and humming sound and the magnetic field generated by electromagnet will be strong enough that it could be detected. It's silent no doubt but you would need addition to detect it and then it would be easy to track.
LeGenD
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Do you think that the blogger in question invented that information out of thin air?
For any individual, a blog is a convenient (and free-of-cost) platform to express his point-of-view or to disclose an important piece of information. A large number of experts and scientists utilize blogs to convey their findings in 'easy to understand' language for general audience/readers.
That information is derived from this report* (declassified in 2008): http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a519221.pdf
*From the notes section of the report:
This article draws extensively on five of the serious PRC professional publications concerned with naval warfare: 当代海军 (Modern Navy), 人民海军 (People’s Navy), 舰船知识(Naval and Merchant Ships), 舰载 武器 (Shipborne Weapons), and 现代舰船 (Modern Ships). Modern Navy is a monthly magazine published by the official PLAN newspaper People’s Navy, which is the daily newspaper published by the Political Department of China’s navy. Modern Navy offers articles that are often concrete and revealing of important capabilities, initiatives, and exercises. See, for example, 徐红明, 刘新民 [Xu Hongming and Liu Xinmin], “‘敌后’布 雷--中国海军某潜艇突破反潜编队训练 目击记” [Lay Mines “In the Enemy’s Rear Area”: An Eyewitness Account of a Certain PLAN Submarine Exercise Involving Breaking Through Antisubmarine Formations], 当代海军 [Modern Navy], no. 4 (2003), p. 38. 舰船知识 (Naval and Merchant Ships), a semitechnical monthly publication of the Chinese Society of Naval Architecture and Marine Engineering, has directly involved a retired PLA Navy rear admiral, Zheng Ming, formerly head of the PLA Navy’s Equipment Department, in its publication activities. See “我刊召开作者, 读者, 编者座谈会” [Our Journal Convenes a Discussion among Writers, Readers and Editors], 舰船知识 [Naval and Merchant Ships] (August 2006), p. 8. An active-duty PLA Navy admiral has contributed to the journal. See 杨毅 [Yang Yi], “谁 的潜艇今后说了算?” [Who Can Estimate the Future Number of Submarines?], 舰 船知识 [Naval and Merchant Ships] (July 2006), p. 28. Shipborne Weapons and Modern Ships are both monthly journals published by the state-owned China Shipbuilding Industry Corporation (CSIC), China’s largest designer, manufacturer, and trader of military and civilian vessels and related engineering and equipment. In addition to these naval-oriented publications, 中国军事 科学 (China Military Science) is published by the PLA’s Academy of Military Sciences.
Satisfied?
How about you mention the models and their acoustic levels here? Let us see what you really know about this subject.
On what grounds are you assuming that American sources tend to be very biased and misleading? You could not even dig out the Chinese references in the blogs I cited; I did it for you in this post (see above).
You tend to over-generalize and dismiss American reports as if authors of those reports are subhumans who do not understand research and do not have access to Chinese reports. Do you even know how to write a report? What are your credentials in education?
Please lay off your silly generalizations and dismissals and bring something concrete to this discussion. Show me a Chinese report in which acoustic levels of all Chinese submarines are clearly mentioned.
Game on.
You better watch your mouth now and stick to providing some quantifiable evidence of your claims of Chinese breakthrough in submarine technologies.
No , it is insulate in shroud. Small captivating and more space saving will produce for sub. Making them quiet.
LeGenD
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Right.
We will see what your mighty Navy (armed with mighty Chinese vessels) can do when confronting USN. Please give it a try.
I am still waiting for those acoustic figures.
You show nothing about from Official Chinese source. Those are no Chinese source but just western selective picking up internet stuff and claim as official Chinese source by western standard. YOu are just making things up to suit your agenda.
I dont think I need to remind you of this famous diagram from ONI? Or you want to claim ONI is not any official source from USN?
This stupid diagram is created in 2009 by ONI ,talking about Type095 submarine noise level which not even a single screw for it is build during that time. Type095 is currently build in 2017 in China shipyard as comfirm by Ma weiming PLAN scientist in the lastest PLA documetary.
May I know how do ONI know about the noise level of Type095 to be so pathetic of even noiser than Akula I sub build 20 years ago in 2009?
Care to answer me? You called this "Professional" from an official US government agency to post such absurd data to promote some propaganda? Western agency have many times caught lying and misleading and yet some western bootlicker will continue claim they are credible.
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