Brazilian aviation experts recommended J11B /SU27

[Rajaraja Chola]

And I suppose you made that up?

The FC-1 is still under evaluation by the PLAAF. Evaluation does not mean they are going to reject it.

Dont u think its funny?
They kept it so called EVALUATION so some countries might buy their systems!!
And do u think is it right to export a product to pakistan which is not evaluated yet??/
Dont make a fun of urself here mate !!!
They refuse to induct JF 17 !!

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

The JF-17 is exclusively built for Pakistan, since it was Pakistan proposed this joint project first.

Wrong !! Pakistan joined a china started project like how india joined with russia for the T-50 project !!!
The JF 17 was already flying, but china , however developed more advanced aircraft, decided to dump them on pakistan, while the chinese themselves are not using this !!

 

[huzihaidao12]

Wrong !! Pakistan joined a china started project like how india joined with russia for the T-50 project !!!
The JF 17 was already flying, but china , however developed more advanced aircraft, decided to dump them on pakistan, while the chinese themselves are not using this !!

Wrong, these are two different projects between FC1 and J10, their time is almost the same, if not FC1 earlier.

The key lies in the FC1 short legs a little for China's territory, but still, China is still at it, use or not use, need to wait for news.

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

Wrong, these are two different projects between FC1 and J10, their time is almost the same, if not FC1 earlier.

The key lies in the FC1 short legs a little for China's territory, but still, China is still at it, use or not use, need to wait for news.

But for now, u do accept that pakistan is using it, and u dont right?
Well i am too waiting for future news !!!

 

[golmaal]

And I suppose you made that up?

The FC-1 is still under evaluation by the PLAAF. Evaluation does not mean they are going to reject it.

Kab tak evaluation karega.. I think after 6th gen fighter will be available on Chinese air force then they decide..LOL

 

[golmaal]

The JF-17 is exclusively built for Pakistan, since it was Pakistan proposed this joint project first.

Yes that's correct.. JF-17 is exclusively built for Pakistan air force for a cheaper alternative to add numeric strength ... But your people on this forum again again saying that this machine can beat anything in this world and PLAF is evaluating and probably wil induct..
Bcz of cheaper alternative you know how quality will work..

 

[DrSomnath999]

Of course we know the JF-17's capability. It has a small frontal RCS, great maneuverability, and the Block II will have AESA, RAM, more composites, IRST, and eventual ability that may even exceed the Su-30MKI in some areas.

Are u serious / or r u joking
have u any idea about the manuverabilty of MKi that u r comparing it with JF17
well just wait for super Su 30 mki upgrade u would see how all the criteria which u r mentioning changes

 

[ptldM3]

Are u serious / or r u joking
have u any idea about the manuverabilty of MKi that u r comparing it with JF17
well just wait for super Su 30 mki upgrade u would see how all the criteria which u r mentioning changes

It can pull at least 10G's. I still find the 'covered in RAM' talk silly, it's like covering the USS Nimitz in RAM. In all reality it is about as practical as a third nipple....on a dude nevertheless.

 

[conworldus]

J-11B is not for sale unless we get a Russia license for it. After all, it is still a Su-27 variant.

 

[Jungibaaz]

Are u serious / or r u joking
have u any idea about the manuverabilty of MKi that u r comparing it with JF17
well just wait for super Su 30 mki upgrade u would see how all the criteria which u r mentioning changes

MKI is more maneuverable then the JF-17.
Does that ensure a kill? I doubt it.

You also have to take into account pilot training/skill, and the fact that both fighters will probably be assisted by HMDS and a good WVRAAM. The days of turning dogfights are gone.

 

[Akasa]

By ur assertion even the TEJAS mk1(its a good platform ofcourse) will kill JFT 2 and even J11 B because, Tejas have extremely low RCS, fully made up of composites and have visible stealth because of its smaller size !!!
And MKI is not exactly made up of iron u see !!!
The MKI built under liscence in india have now employed a lot of composites in it(with permission of russia ofcourse) !!

TEJAS Mk1 is around the same size of the JF-17, and does not have the high level of composites, radar absorbent material, and stealthy features (like DSI) unlike their cousins, and does not incoporate powerful avionics. The MKI is not known to have a high level of composites and radar absorbent material. The J-11B, on the other hand, uses enough radar absorbent material that it has lowered its original RCS by a factor of 5, and enough composites that it lowered its original mass by 700 kg, making it arguably the lightest Flanker type airframe.

---------- Post added at 03:39 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:37 PM ----------

U r forgettting that J 11B have not reached operational maturity !!
They have been inducted ,yes, but it will take a few years for fying mastery over the aircrafts!!
The same applies to tejas too !!
And chinese members pls don talk about JF 17 cos u guys are refusing to use it !!

Huh? It made its first flight in 2004, entered service 2006, and deployed to full operation status by 2008, and PLAAF is considering JF Blk 2.

---------- Post added at 03:41 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:39 PM ----------

All your AESA/Engine/TVC Nozzel claim are fanboy ... First make them pubilc before big claim of better version then Russian tech

If you already develop engine for all these planes they why Russian engine for JF17 ??

Why AESA not for JF17 Block2 ???

If you call insider information "fanboy", then I can only laugh at the denial that led to your army's fall in 1962.

 

[Akasa]

Everything that is coming out of China these days is covered in RAM and composites including my toaster. A good question would be, where is the proof? Is it what ‘insiders’ have claimed?

People throw around the words composites and RAM with reckless abandonment. Firstly all aircraft consist largely of composites, second of all, most composites do nothing to reduce an aircraft’s RCS, in fact your bathroom and automobile are made up of composites. Some composites such as honeycomb can reduce RCS but don’t expect a large improvement and don’t think it is possible to use such material in large quantities.

And now the question becomes are the composites you are referring to make up an aircraft’s total surface or weight?

Now RAM, it also works, but again don’t expect anything significant.

Now your question of how an MKI will hold up even if it does have a larger RCS (which you can not prove). If the MKI is able to jam an enemy aircraft that just so happens to have a smaller RCS that is how it will hold up. If the MKI has a higher cell resolution, that is how it will hold up. If the MKI has a better data-link and more reliable A2A weapons that is how it will hold up. If the MKI’s radar allows the MKI to achieve first lock that is how it will hold up. If the MKI’s EW suit is able to deny the enemy any shot, than that is how it will hold up. Remeber the F-15 a high RCS aircraft acheived kills against much smaller RCS aircraft.

Let me ask you; just how do you decrease an airframe's weight by 700 kg without having to reduce the size and payload, if you don't use composites? And these were reiterated by military insiders w.

Composites do not reflect radar waves as well as pure metal. Composites are a great way of lowering RCS without major structural changes and many aircraft employ this.

How do you define "significant"? Lowering the RCS by a factor of five, is that significant? Why is Russia's Su-35S so much low observable than the Su-27? Is it because of redesigning? Structural changes?

The MKI is not the only plane that is capable of jamming. In a situation when the enemy has the same abilities as you, how exactly will the MKI hold up when it is seriously impeded in one area? The J-11B (or any other aircraft for that matter) has all the gadgets you mentioned. The MKI's radar will not achieve a first lock if the J-11B is stealthier than the MKI, especially when the J-11B is receiving a large AESA radar.

---------- Post added at 03:52 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:50 PM ----------

Are u serious / or r u joking
have u any idea about the manuverabilty of MKi that u r comparing it with JF17
well just wait for super Su 30 mki upgrade u would see how all the criteria which u r mentioning changes

Does your Su-30MKI incorporate F-16-style RCS, radar absorbent material, 40% composites, AESA radar, fully integrated electronics, DSI?

---------- Post added at 03:53 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:52 PM ----------

J-11B is not for sale unless we get a Russia license for it. After all, it is still a Su-27 variant.

How exactly is it a variant when it uses completely different technologies?

 

[conworldus]

How exactly is it a variant when it uses completely different technologies?

Yes, avionics, radar, etc. are different, but the air frame (albeit a little smaller) and design philosophy is still clearly Su-27. Aerodynamics modification is at best minimal. China would lose huge points internationally by selling J-11B without Russian license. We can freely export J-10, JF-17, and maybe even J-20 in future, but just not J-11 or J-15 (which is clearly Su-33 design in principle).

 

[Akasa]

Yes, avionics, radar, etc. are different, but the air frame (albeit a little smaller) and design philosophy is still clearly Su-27. Aerodynamics modification is at best minimal. China would lose huge points internationally by selling J-11B without Russian license. We can freely export J-10, JF-17, and maybe even J-20 in future, but just not J-11 or J-15 (which is clearly Su-33 design in principle).

The airframe design was already licensed, and the fact that the J-11B is indigenous negates the ban on exports.

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

TEJAS Mk1 is around the same size of the JF-17, and does not have the high level of composites, radar absorbent material, and stealthy features (like DSI) unlike their cousins, and does not incoporate powerful avionics. The MKI is not known to have a high level of composites and radar absorbent material. The J-11B, on the other hand, uses enough radar absorbent material that it has lowered its original RCS by a factor of 5, and enough composites that it lowered its original mass by 700 kg, making it arguably the lightest Flanker type airframe.

---------- Post added at 03:39 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:37 PM ----------



Huh? It made its first flight in 2004, entered service 2006, and deployed to full operation status by 2008, and PLAAF is considering JF Blk 2.

---------- Post added at 03:41 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:39 PM ----------



If you call insider information "fanboy", then I can only laugh at the denial that led to your army's fall in 1962.

Dont make a fool of urself !!!
Tejas is mostly made up of composites, for info, check other threads about tejas fighter here !!!
And everyone knoe JF 17 dont have composites at all, its fully made up of iron n aluminium as every1 knows here , and tejas fly by wire onboard system is no match for JF 17 C programmed system !!!
And Whatever be the RCS , when J 11B carries weapons under its belt, its RCS will naturally increase, and radar absorbent material are of no use in the war scenario !!!
And DONT CONSIDER A AIRCRAFT WHICH HAVENT MADE A FLIGHT YET !!!
U guys have sold JF 17 to them, while refusing to use them urself !!
This shows ur hypocricy level , and stop claiming JF 17 is best over tejas or mki !!!

---------- Post added at 10:32 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:30 AM ----------

The airframe design was already licensed, and the fact that the J-11B is indigenous negates the ban on exports.

Without an stable airframe, u cant put equipments in place !!!
An aircraft design in itself is 50% of the job done !!!
So Stop making a fool of urself !!!
U cant export without the permission of russia !!!