Betrayed, Arabized

[lonelyone]

Sometimes I think Hizbut Tahrir is being secretly funded by the CIA. Islamic Unity is good, and supported by most Muslims, but what they want is to go back to 700AD in every field. They believe that since Muslims were ahead of the rest of the world then, we must copy them in every single field, and then magically -- we shall lead the world again. That's what they bark about all the time, "We must go back to the Islamic economic system", "We must go back to the Islamic political system", etc, etc. They do not know anything at all about Economics or Politics, and they ask us to put them in power, so that "we can go back to the golden ages". That is exactly what is needed to ensure the Islamic world stays permanently behind the rest of the world, in a condition that they can continue to be invaded and occupied by Western powers.

 

[Jango]

That's inaccurate, what the author is pointing to

See, it's not that it's arabic tradition that is the source of concern, it is the salaf/wahabism bit, it's
I thin we are saying the same thing, so let me try and say it more clearly -- Religion is not culture, religion is just one aspect of culture, what the author is pointing to are cultural propositions, not religious - the author laments our confusion but further asks to gain what are we to give up our Pakistani selves for the arabized ?

And this heresy:

Exactly muse, that perfectly explains the difference between culture and religion. So, should it not be Wahabbiism rather than Arabization.?

 

[Sinnerman108]

Such absurd commentary.

According to muse

You seem to have bought the bogus argument that religion is culture and vice versa. Religion is just an aspect of culture and when it is imagined as it's entirety, both culture and religion, suffer corruption And the argument that religion is the same as culture is a front for Islam equals arab

Unfortunately Muse's knowledge is very limited regarding history and Islam however his skill in joining absurd arguments into a shining but inaccurate and misleading proposition is unique.

Dance and Music were a part of pre-Islam pagan arab culture. Music and Dance were leisurely activities which were prohibited by Islam along with Alcohol and drugs.

What remains today in the arab culture are Tribal reminiscence of that culture which SHOULD be abolished just as well and if they are practiced then it is wrong.

Now, Mr Muse also thinks that religion and culture suffer from corruption, then may I remind Mr Muse that if he is referring to religion as in word and command of God almighty, then how can Muse claim that it suffers from corruption ?

Now for the article that Muse choose to copy here

Dancing for joy? Haw hai!
By Feisal H Naqvi
Published: September 5, 2011

.
.
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The other front is the war by the state against every iota of our heritage which is not Wahabi sanctioned.

See the connection ? This gentleman is biased and his writing is skewed.


Let me ask you people.

You think it is more important to quote people from right left and center and carry on debating on what 1000 idiots think while in the process destroying the shape and form of God's written word.

Why be afraid to quote God's own words and then try to find out how best they can be implemented ?

I think this is the fear that points to an inner corruption in people like the author of the article and those who quote them.

 

[VCheng]

Islam has its own political economic and social system and very soon it will be implemented

Will the implementation that you dream of come before or after Mann-o-Salwa descend again from the heavens?

 

[Ahmad]

Islam has its own political economic and social system and very soon it will be implemented

Soon implemented? how soon? and where will it be implemented?

 

[VCheng]

Soon implemented? how soon? and where will it be implemented?

That is exactly what I wondered, and the only thing I could come up as a possible mechanism for success was the appearance of Mann-o-Salwa.

 

[T-Faz]

You certainly did not consider that part of your post important enough to include in the definition you copied over in your last post, but this confusion could have been avoided had you changed your actual 'definition' to reflect that, perhaps as follows:

Let me define Arabization from my perspective, it is the growing influence of some regressive and/or intolerant aspects of Arab culture and customs on Non-Arab Muslim countries. Arab societal behavior and norms have been wrongly intertwined with Islamic behavior and norms. The two being completely different as Arabic culture and custom is suitable for Arabs while Muslim culture and custom is suitable for all Muslims.

You seem to be confusing the definition of Arabization and the its definition in context to its negative influence on Pakistan.

I gave a general definition of Arabization which by no means was denigrating or insulting to their culture or religion.

I then pointed out the factual negative influence of Arabization in another post.

What you have done is put them together to enforce your point of view that I am denigrating Arab culture and religion in its entirety.

This has allowed you to successfully avoid the content of my post by concentrating on an unnecessary issue.

Would you agree with how I rephrased your definition? We can continue once you answer that, since my opposition to those arguing against 'Arabization', revolves around this issue primarily.

No, I do not agree with it because my definition of Arabization was correct.

Your definition is in context of its negative influence on Pakistan and not in its entirety.

It can't be considered 'factual' when rational/logical arguments refuting your POV remain (as do good arguments supporting your POV) - it is a good 'hypothesis' at the moment, but far from established 'fact'.

Wordplay might work on others but it won't work on me, factuality on my part is being backed by references from credible sources all the while you deflect from the main issues by concentrating on this nonsensical matter.

These so called rational/logical arguments refuting my POV revolve around avoiding core issues and concentrating upon falsification of definitions.

 

[shuakataftab]

"Islamic banking" is another scam which is really popular these days
firstly interest on loans were prohibited because it was used to turn people into slaves and make their lives miserable
however banks don't give loans to poor people who cannot return the money therefore the whole argument about banking being haram is invalid

secondly there is no difference between islamic banks and kafir banks it is just an exploitation of religion

 

[muse]

According to muse

You seem to have bought the bogus argument that religion is culture and vice versa. Religion is just an aspect of culture and when it is imagined as it's entirety, both culture and religion, suffer corruption And the argument that religion is the same as culture is a front for Islam equals arab

Unfortunately Muse's knowledge is very limited regarding history and Islam however his skill in joining absurd arguments into a shining but inaccurate and misleading proposition is unique.

Dance and Music were a part of pre-Islam pagan arab culture. Music and Dance were leisurely activities which were prohibited by Islam along with Alcohol and drugs.

What remains today in the arab culture are Tribal reminiscence of that culture which SHOULD be abolished just as well and if they are practiced then it is wrong.

Now, Mr Muse also thinks that religion and culture suffer from corruption, then may I remind Mr Muse that if he is referring to religion as in word and command of God almighty, then how can Muse claim that it suffers from corruption ?

Salman108


Dancing is jahilyah, you say, Wahabi baby don't do that you say?

Bush Saudi Arabia Sword Dancing - YouTube


Saudi traditional wedding dance - YouTube

Saudi Arabia teen Girls dancing at home - YouTube

Pakrab slaves are now more wahabi than the arbi - beware arbis going to get the work permit looked into

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Muse, give it a rest

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

muse u can convey ur views without name calling cant ya? coz wahabi baby,pakrabs sound pretty retarded.

 

[muse]

AZ

Someone forcing you ? Go to some thread you enjoy, please.

PNationalist

u can convey ur views without name calling cant ya? coz wahabi baby,pakrabs sound pretty retarded.

It's a statement of fact, but I can understand how that can make some recoil in denial.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Listen. It has nothing to do with thread i enjoy or not enjoy.

You made your point over 55 pages ago. What motivates you so much, what is your conviction? It's one thing to voice concerns and come up with solutions.

your posts have gotten to the point that they are becoming racist.

 

[muse]

your posts have gotten to the point that they are becoming racist.

Do I say things to you like your posts are "insipid"? No, I just don't. The apologists have been on the argument that to point to arabization is "racist" - Sorry AZ, that dog won't hunt. Anyway, try and defend arabization as best you can

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

i wont defend it because i have no need or desire to. I'm Pakistani and I'm at peace with who I am.

it is you who is maybe confused.


and on that note, I am unsubcribing from this Goddamned, idiotic, needless thread. Making issues and hullabaloo out of non-issues.