Betrayed, Arabized

[monitor]

No only you, whose ancestors were Hindu and Sikh Indians, are the real Muslims - So spare me, your Holy Quran that you recite when you do murder -

Why you are mixing murdering with reciting Quran ? as a Muslim we all should learn Arabic languese to recite Quyran . but it true just reciting Quran nad keeping the Quran in safe place embracing it with gilaf is not the reason Quran sent for . we have to follow the instruction of holly Quran As a Muslim .

What our ancestor was is not the issue . how we are following Islam thats important .

 

[Sinnerman108]

Wahabi fanatic Salman420 is frothing at the mouth since he's been busted selling snake oil in the disguise of Islam, telling us dance is unIslamic, music is unIslamic, Arts are UnIslamic - well, that's OK, because as we can see there is music and dance and art in Arabia, as there always has been - Abdul Wahab, the degenerate who graduated from no seminary, tried to kill culture and replace it with his heresy, but he and his fanatics have not been entirely successful.




Excellent question - You have correctly apprehended the thread --- well I suppose we have to begin by asking what is this "Islam" you seem to understand - Is it the same thing as Arab culture???? If it is then I think you should be prepared for a rude awakening, because IF Islam is arab culture then, of course it is on a trajectory to nowhere.

I practice a religion, which says the best of remembrance is that of Allah, so when we have spare time
we talk about Allah.

You can try to present arguments about using time for love songs, dancing, etc being better usage of time.

*************"
From among my followers there will be some people who will consider illegal sexual intercourse, the wearing of silk, the drinking of alcoholic drinks, and the use of musical instruments as lawful. And (from them), there will be some who will stay near the side of a mountain, and in the evening their shepherd will come to them with their sheep and ask them for something, but they will say to him, 'Return to us tomorrow.' Allah will destroy them during the night and will let the mountain fall on them, and Allah will transform the rest of them into monkeys and pigs and they will remain so till the Day of Resurrection.
****************

 

[Safriz]

two things..

do a sin and think its bad...
or do sin and not even acknowledge that itsca sin..and be adamant that its the truth.

Azaab e Ilahii comes on the later.

when people present sins as acts of piousness.......naach gaana is forbidden in islam and thats that.....we cannot say its part of islam.

the argument becomes a bit difficult when we see the matter of qawwali....which is considered a good spiritual practice...and been going on for centuries....
first of all...the sofi saints who started qawwali always admited that the music part is forbiden..but was added to attract the attention of the non beleivers of that era who wont listen to anything that didnt include music...and mixed with music the islamic spiritual message was conveyed to them...but at no point did the sufi saints defend the use of music..or called it shariah.

 

[muse]

.naach gaana is forbidden in islam and thats that.....we cannot say its part of islam.

OK, fair enough. You should be afforded the opportunity to show yourself in your true colors


Saudi Oldies (Eng. Sub)


Tajdar e Haram ho nigah e karam Sabri Brothers qawwali 1 - YouTube


So these are examples of Kufr - and as you can see and hear and delight in the art, oh, wait you can't delight in anything except the spilling of blood - so the peole of arabia and so many in Pakistan are Kuffar?



Salman420 and and Safriz - how do you plead?

 

[muse]

Salman420


Please gives us your real name so that we can forward it to Saudi authorities and they can effect the arrest of their Kufar kings who dance with Kufar western leaders while claiming that they are Khadim of the haram. Not really a wahabi thing to do, is it?

Or Alternately you can try some other witchcraft with magic spells - lets see how that works on the Saudi authorities, I'm sure your work permit is in order.

 

[Manas]

I suggest everyone interested in the thread , pls read the book by V. S. Naipaul called" Among the Believers: An Islamic Journey "

Here is a titbit of the book.

Islam is in its origins an Arab religion. Everyone not an Arab who is a Muslim is a convert. Islam is not simply a matter of conscience or private belief. It makes imperial demands. A convert’s worldview alters. His holy places are in Arab lands; his language is Arabic. His idea of history alters. He rejects his own; he becomes, whether he likes it or not, a part of the Arab story. The convert has to turn away from everything that is his. The disturbance for societies is immense, and even after a thousand years can remain unresolved; the turning away has to be done again and again. People develop fantasies about who and what they are; and in the Islam of the converted countries there is an element of neurosis and nihilism. These countries can be easily set on the boil.

 

[muse]

Manas


Excellent - I read the book a long time ago and I'' save my review for a later date, but how on the money Naipaul is on this particular aspect -- Shah Valiollah Dehlvi had warned the Muslims of the subcontinent to not confuse arab culture with Islam - but he failed - and as a result of the failure to heed his warning and ti be fair, in greed, what you have quoted is spot on. Now barbarous brutes suggest that art is UnIslamic, that joy is unIslamic.

We had said in a earlier post in response to a brilliant question by Santro, that Islam imagined as arab culture is on a trajectory to nowhere - indeed, as the overwhelming majority of Muslims are not arabs, and in particular, Pakistanis are not arabs, the need to define and differentiate for themselves what is Islam and what is arab culture, has never been more important and indeed a existential imperative.

 

[westtowel]

Betayed maybe but definitely Arabized.

 

[Safriz]

I suggest everyone interested in the thread , pls read the book by V. S. Naipaul called" Among the Believers: An Islamic Journey "

Here is a titbit of the book.

nothing wrong with.being descendent of conversts.....should be proud our forefathers found the right path and converted to the true religion.

self denial and resisting ones self is a great thing...specially if done only for the swke of Allah.....
i see a beautiful woman and tempted to pervbut dont perv bcause Allah asks me not to.

is this arabization..as the book you mention suggests?

 

[westtowel]

nothing wrong with.being descendent of conversts.....should be proud our forefathers found the right path and converted to the true religion.

self denial and resisting ones self is a great thing...specially if done only for the swke of Allah.....
i see a beautiful woman and tempted to pervbut dont perv bcause Allah asks me not to.

is this arabization..as the book you mention suggests?

found the right path through jizya and the sword.

 

[muse]

Safriza

How about those Kuffar singing and referring to the beloved of God as tajdar e Haram - how shameful and embarrassing that must be for you and of course those Sodies playing music and dancing with joy -Astagfurallah! All Kuffar!! Right? Don't you have any courage of conviction? Singing Tajdar e haram, Kuffar right?

 

[Safriz]

found the right path through jizya and the sword.

sorry i dont talk to idiots....come up with more than blunt accusations and we may talk.

 

[Manas]

nothing wrong with.being descendent of conversts.....should be proud our forefathers found the right path and converted to the true religion.

self denial and resisting ones self is a great thing...specially if done only for the swke of Allah.....
i see a beautiful woman and tempted to pervbut dont perv bcause Allah asks me not to.

is this arabization..as the book you mention suggests?

This is exactly the problem , do believe that your forefathers who were born before that arrival of Islam were perverts and barbarians ??

You know this is simply not true for the inhabitants of Indus valley civilization. The life they led were very most modern of that era.

Well,..Arabization happens when school history books tell kids that history of Pakistan begins with the arrival of muhammad bin qasim on the coast of sindh.

 

[Developereo]

nothing wrong with.being descendent of conversts.....

Let them talk.

The best part is that the author clearly fails to see how his rant exposes his own intolerance and bigotry towards anyone who leaves Hinduism.

To him, 'convert' is a dirty word, and converts are somehow second-class members of a religion.

I wonder if he feels the same way about Buddhist converts throughout Asia who adopted some Indian customs.

 

[Safriz]

Safriza

How about those Kuffar singing and referring to the beloved of God as tajdar e Haram - how shameful and embarrassing that must be for you and of course those Sodies playing music and dancing with joy -Astagfurallah! All Kuffar!! Right? Don't you have any courage of conviction? Singing Tajdar e haram, Kuffar right?

musa....muso musee..musitta..

i am an avid listner of qawwali myself.....
for analogy sake...its lifecsaving drug mixed with alcohol which the patient wont/cant take in.its pure form...and has to be administered mixed with something forbidden..alcohol.

but does that make alcohol halaal? no?

likewise sufi saints devised this way of propagating islamic spirituality....which works and is te tested.....people have benifited for centuries from qawwali....
it makes them better muslims...better humans and better spirituals.....

does lady gaga song make you a spiritual and reminds you of Allah.and Rasool?...same way as the qawwali does?
decide yourself.