Betrayed, Arabized

[President Camacho]

hey president....
come on...google dies not replace a himan being...now does it...?
qawwali is not an integral part of islam..and if i can do away without it and that wont be a sin...but since it has good religious effects on me..i keep listening to it...while admitting that music is forbidden..

say this to a "bhajann" listener....

I don't really get that "human" part here.

If you want the words to be spoken, then I am sure it will be very appreciable for you to speak those words yourself, minus the forbidden part. That's the least you can do to avoid a sin that you are already aware of.

I will tell you what... this is what I listen to:

And believe it or not, I feel very spiritual in spite of the fact that I am not a Muslim. It is not just the words, the is the way the words are spoken in a musical manner - rhythm and rhymes all along.

I can write down entire lyrics here. Please tell me honestly, what version would you prefer, the same lyrics spoken by yourself, or the same ones sung by Sabri Brothers?



*And please don't tell me about Bhajans, I am not into that (they are not forbidden either). Though I do listen to some, sung by Muhammad Rafi on the music given by Naushad, simply because they have been sung perfectly on such beautiful music.

 

[muse]

As usual T-Faz came to bat and another fastest Century - that boy just goes straight for the jugular - luv it!

 

[Safriz]

to us deed is important but why its done is even more important...
our forefathers may be civilized..but they were not doing good for the sake of Allah and Rasool.

Who is this "US"



faith cannot be transferred, it cannot be inherited, it can only be consciously apprehended - in other words you have to "Experience" it for yourself, it does not do to suggest that you experience it because your forefathers did.

our forefathres kindled the islamic beleif in us with their beleif..and made thingsxeasier for us...and taughts us how to follow islam....
is that inheritance? dont think so.

 

[Safriz]

I don't really get that "human" part here.

If you want the words to be spoken, then I am sure it will be very appreciable for you to speak those words yourself, minus the forbidden part. That's the least you can do to avoid a sin that you are already aware of.

I will tell you what... this is what I listen to:

And believe it or not, I feel very spiritual in spite of the fact that I am not a Muslim. It is not just the words, the is the way the words are spoken in a musical manner - rhythm and rhymes all along.

I can write down entire lyrics here. Please tell me honestly, what version would you prefer, the same lyrics spoken by yourself, or the same ones sung by Sabri Brothers?



*And please don't tell me about Bhajans, I am not into that (they are not forbidden either). Though I do listen to some, sung by Muhammad Rafi on the music given by Naushad, simply because they have been sung perfectly on such beautiful music.

the simple answer to your question.....
i like qawwali sung than spoken..it helps me to concenterate...
i do read "sultan bahoo" and "mian muhammad bukhsh" " Bullay shah" and their poetry is in pure punjabi and my language isnt lunjabi....still i manage to grasp the essence of what they say...
but i agree that in this day and era when people will justify lady gaga on tbe basis of qawwali...we should stick to the poetry as written ir spoken than sung.....but then the "liberal/agnostics confused" will call us wahabi extremists .... you cant make everybody happy now....can you

 

[Safriz]

Curious, nothing about Jihad, nothing about hating Jews and Hindus and Christians and Buddhists - all very curious

---------- Post added at 08:55 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:53 AM ----------



Your mind is blanking out, that's for dang sure

..
And you know the song, because you don't listen to music??

never did i claim being a saint.......
the discussion is not about what you or me do in our personal lives..
we were discussing if music is forbidden in islam or not and i said its forbidden even in qawwali...
never did i claim i dont listen to music.....although i reoeatedly admitted its wrong.......unlike people lime yourself wjo do wrong and thenviciously justify it to the level of distorting islamic values and well established abd agreed laws of shariah...
come on muse have the moral courage of admitting your wrong beleifs and wrong doings and stop justifying them.

its not me...its you who is portraying yoursrlf as a saint who never does anything wrong and even listening to gaga is very islamic.

 

[President Camacho]

the simple answer to your question.....
i like qawwali sung than spoken..it helps me to concenterate...
i do read "sultan bahoo" and "mian muhammad bukhsh" " Bullay shah" and their poetry is in pure punjabi and my language isnt lunjabi....still i manage to grasp the essence of what they say...
but i agree that in this day and era when people will justify lady gaga on tbe basis of qawwali...we should stick to the poetry as written ir spoken than sung.....but then the "liberal/agnostics confused" will call us wahabi extremists .... you cant make everybody happy now....can you

My question was way simpler than what you seem to have inferred.

I am asking a very simple question: Why do you want to commit a sin, when you know all along that it is one?

But you will say it makes you feel spiritual - That is such a terrible contradiction... how is it that it takes you to knowingly commit a sin to feel spiritual?

but then the "liberal/agnostics confused" will call us wahabi extremists .... you cant make everybody happy now....can you

I hope you are not implying that your religion is less of a personal thing, and more of a show off.

Wouldn't it mean that all the non-Muslims in Pakistan should convert to Islam, because they cannot make everyone happy?

 

[Safriz]

My question was way simpler than what you seem to have inferred.

I am asking a very simple question: Why do you want to commit a sin, when you know all along that it is one?

But you will say it makes you feel spiritual - That is such a terrible contradiction... how is it that it takes you to knowingly commit a sin to feel spiritual?





I hope you are not implying that your religion is less of a personal thing, and more of a show off.

Wouldn't it mean that all the non-Muslims in Pakistan should convert to Islam, because they cannot make everyone happy?

sorry no.comments on this particular point....i have already said what i wanted to say...

 

[President Camacho]

sorry no.comments on this particular point....i have already said what i wanted to say...

Be cool man, just that^^ would suffice.

 

[Safriz]

Be cool man, just that^^ would suffice.

lol.good one.

 

[President Camacho]

lol.good one.

What can I say man, have no right to solicit an answer on what is personal to you.

 

[SQ8]

Wahabi fanatic Salman420 is frothing at the mouth since he's been busted selling snake oil in the disguise of Islam, telling us dance is unIslamic, music is unIslamic, Arts are UnIslamic - well, that's OK, because as we can see there is music and dance and art in Arabia, as there always has been - Abdul Wahab, the degenerate who graduated from no seminary, tried to kill culture and replace it with his heresy, but he and his fanatics have not been entirely successful.




Excellent question - You have correctly apprehended the thread --- well I suppose we have to begin by asking what is this "Islam" you seem to understand - Is it the same thing as Arab culture???? If it is then I think you should be prepared for a rude awakening, because IF Islam is arab culture then, of course it is on a trajectory to nowhere.

However, If Islam is the Guidance offered to all humanity with the recognition that there are as many ways to God, as there are faithful, If Islam is Guidance informed by "Rahman and Raheem", that is an Islam that holds relevance to all humanity, If Islam is FAITH in God and in this and only in this route, salvation, then Islam holds a message that all Humanity thirsts for.

Agreed..
but.. how far in our quest to sift out what is arbi culture.. and what is essential do we go?

 

[T-Faz]

Curious, nothing about Jihad, nothing about hating Jews and Hindus and Christians and Buddhists - all very curious

Please find better translation of the verse from Surah Al-Baqarrah as follows:

It is not righteousness that you turn your faces to the East or the West, but truly righteous is he who believes in Allah and the Last Day and the angels and the Book and the Prophets, and spends his money out of love for Him, on the kindred and the orphans and the needy and the wayfarer and those who ask for charity, and for ransoming the captives; and observes Prayer and pays the Zakat; and those who fulfil their promise when they have made one, and the patient in poverty and afflistions and the the steadfast in time of war; it is these who have proved truthful and it is these who are truly God-fearing

This is the gist of Islamic teachings, it begins with the basic Islamic beliefs and doctrines which are the sources and basis of all actions that is the core properties of a righteous individual.

Where is the mention of the global Jihad against Kafirs as Zarvan wants to see?

Where is the additions that so many have added to create a specific criteria of being Muslim.

What can you expect from those who follow the cursed mullahs as the interpolator of Islamic beliefs and doctrines.

Our opposition to Arabization and political Islam is based on its destruction of Islamic purity and Pakistan.

Mullahs on Saudi payroll are corrupting and destroying Pakistan while accusing others of their own doings.

An application asking for an investigation into the imam of DHA’s Sultan Masjid has been submitted by complainants who accused the imam of declaring MNA Sherry Rehman a ‘non-Muslim’.

SHO Amjad said that they were looking into who governed the mosque’s affairs. Chishti said, “If it turns out that he is an employee of the Saudi consulate and has diplomatic immunity, the police will file an FIR based on the law for foreigners.”

In an interview with The Express Tribune in December, former president Pervez Musharraf recalled how a DG Inter-Services Intelligence was exiting Sultan Masjid and had caught a young boy distributing hate literature outside while the police was simply looking the other way.

Sultan Masjid imam accused of inciting hatred against Sherry Rehman – The Express Tribune

“The expenditure of the Sultan Masjid is borne by the Crown Prince of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, Sultan bin Abdul Aziz alSaud, and the government of Saudi Arabia.” Calls to the Saudi consulate in Karachi went unanswered and the Islamabad embassy’s media section had not responded to a query by the time of the filing of this report.

Sultan Masjid Imam:

This is the reality, Arabization is the root of the religious barbarism that this country is going through.

Some continue to argue over definitions and remain in denial, while others say that pointing this out is against Islam.

The reality is that these people want to destroy a nation whose purpose was to show the world that Islam was compatible with modern times.

 

[Tshering22]

This is the reality, Arabization is the root of the religious barbarism that this country is going through.

Some continue to argue over definitions and remain in denial, while others say that pointing this out is against Islam.

The reality is that these people want to destroy a nation whose purpose was to show the world that Islam was compatible with modern times.

But Arabization would give you a complete Islamic identity. Think about it; there will be no ethnic disputes, no language disputes, no regional disputes. All Pakistanis will speak, read and write Arabic and wear similar clothes. Urdu itself is not a genuine language even when it was there in pre-partition India. It was a mixed language of Pushto, Farsi, Arabic and Sanskrit and hence you find a lot of words that match these languages. So it has no solid base in itself. That's the reason why there are fights on language in Pakistan.

Consider the whole GCC in comparison; only different dialects and some random here and there additions and deductions; but they are all still one single entity. They defend their land together, are prosperous, speak 1 language, wear same type of clothes and are Islamic. Actually if you guys had Arabized, maybe you'd have become more prosperous getting a good deal politically in Arab organizations.

Now because of not doing this, Pakistan is neither in favor or Arabs, nor Iranians nor Turkic people (barring Turkey). Maybe Arabic was a good choice for you all.

 

[Developereo]

The arguments for moderation in religion and tolerance and respect for all regardless of race and religion, is an argument that needs to be made using universal truths and a refutation of the justifications used by those in favor of intolerance, not by merely casting these beliefs as 'alien to Pakistan'.

At one point even Islam was 'alien to Pakistan'.

That's a good point.

We need to separate our objection to foreign cultural influences from our objection to religious extremism. The former, while deplorable, is a much lesser crime than the latter, which has cost us the lives of 35000+ fellow Pakistanis.

Words, as you pointed out, are extremely important and careless wording -- especially in such an emotional context -- can make or break the case for winning the hearts and minds of the Pakistani public for the cause. We, on this forum, may be forgiving of careless wording but we can be sure the extremist mullahs will take full advantage of any slipup.

 

[VCheng]

Agreed..
but.. how far in our quest to sift out what is arbi culture.. and what is essential do we go?

Let's look at it this way:

Instead of trying to determining what should be detracted from Pakistani culture, whether it be Arabization or Westernization, why don't we look at what should be added to it so that future directions of evolution of society are positive rather than negative?

The intelligentsia should take firmer control of future directions by leading positive change proactively, rather than decrying negatives changes, such as those being attributed to Arabization, reactively.

What I am saying, in essence, is that those of us here who are complaining about foreign influences, also have the burden of creating a better alternative.