Betrayed, Arabized

[SQ8]

No man, you are reading more than what is written. He, or the article, never said anything against reading the Quran in Arabic. Rather, both were against the forced religious necessity of reading the Quran in Arabic.

How will you confirm that what you read in your language is exactly coherent to what was read in the other language.
Will a translation of Goethe read without the original German text allow a person to immediately understand what part a person in another language is referring to when he too has not read the original text??

 

[Bratva]

That's a good post - now since Islam is for everyone, does that mean one has to speak and read and write arabic to be a Muslim? Or is it that such propositions are a reflection of arbi chauvanism?

Muse Do you speak or communicate with Your native language (URDU) When you are in england and interact with different people? There are certain rules and regulations when you are in a certain territory...

So when reading Quran, you have to read in Arabic. And for learning Islam in arabic, it is absolutly not necessary to Learn Islam in arabic. I Learn Islam in URDU, Understand Quran, Using Urdu Tarjuma and Tafseer.

I recommend Basic Arabic learning, so one can properly pronounce arabic words when learning Quran that's it.

And Most of your talks are rhetorical and ground realities point in other way. Arabic is not compulsory to learn rather optional.

 

[President Camacho]

How will you confirm that what you read in your language is exactly coherent to what was read in the other language.

Can that not be done with a religious scholar by my side? I am not saying that just anyone who is bilingual should go on and interpret the holy book in different languages.

A religious Scholar, or some Mullah of deserving eminence, shall do this. As far as loss of proper meaning is concerned, then even while reading the book in Arabic, the interpretation is left open for many to use it for their personal purposes. Without the proper authority we can never be sure what is coming to us, be it in Arabic, or any language. That risk is common and not specific to foreign languages.

Will a translation of Goethe read without the original German text allow a person to immediately understand what part a person in another language is referring to when he too has not read the original text??

No, of course not.

The person will have to have a complete knowledge of the German culture, and understand the language too. Then again, nothing is lost if one remains ignorant to Goethe. Goethe is not meant for everyone. You cannot compare the case of Quran with the case of Goethe.

All this talk about Kalima reminds me of Planet of the Apes (2001). Have you seen that movie?

 

[Mosamania]

Can that not be done with a religious scholar by my side? I am not saying that just anyone who is bilingual should go on and interpret the holy book in different languages.

A religious Scholar, or some Mullah of deserving eminence, shall do this. As far as loss of proper meaning is concerned, then even while reading the book in Arabic, the interpretation is left open for many to use it for their personal purposes. Without the proper authority we can never be sure what is coming to us, be it in Arabic, or any language. That risk is common and not specific to foreign languages.





No, of course not.

The person will have to have a complete knowledge of the German culture, and understand the language too. Then again, nothing is lost if one remains ignorant to Goethe. Goethe is not meant for everyone. You cannot compare the case of Quran with the case of Goethe.

All this talk about Kalima reminds me of Planet of the Apes (2001). Have you seen that movie?

Actually in Arabic it is very clear and very straight forward anyone trying to misinterpret it for his own gain can easily be called on his bluff.

 

[President Camacho]

Actually in Arabic it is very clear and very straight forward anyone trying to misinterpret it for his own gain can easily be called on his bluff.

So you mean all the terrorists attacking in Pakistan and Afghanistan are not motivated by religion? Of course, I mean motivated by the wrong interpretation of the religion - before you misinterpret me on this.

 

[Rafi]

The beauty of the Holy Book in it's original language is Awe Inspiring.

 

[SQ8]

Can that not be done with a religious scholar by my side? I am not saying that just anyone who is bilingual should go on and interpret the holy book in different languages.

A religious Scholar, or some Mullah of deserving eminence, shall do this. As far as loss of proper meaning is concerned, then even while reading the book in Arabic, the interpretation is left open for many to use it for their personal purposes. Without the proper authority we can never be sure what is coming to us, be it in Arabic, or any language. That risk is common and not specific to foreign languages.

Will you carry a religious scholar with you at all times?? The loss of proper meaning.. proper context.
precisely for the reason that when asked about what he understood he can bring up the original text and recite it.. and then repeat it in his/her own language that YES .. this is what I read and understood.
It is the same as my friend from Germany read it.. and understood it.
We both know what the original is... and this is what each of us understood by it.




No, of course not.

The person will have to have a complete knowledge of the German culture, and understand the language too. Then again, nothing is lost if one remains ignorant to Goethe. Goethe is not meant for everyone. You cannot compare the case of Quran with the case of Goethe.

Forget the culture for a while.. How will the both of them know that they read "..................." in goethe and consider "................" to be the meaning in their language?? How do they know that they both are talking about ".............................."

All this talk about Kalima reminds me of Planet of the Apes (2001). Have you seen that movie?

yes, but dont recall it clearly.. and still think mark wahlberg is a crappy actor..

 

[Mosamania]

So you mean all the terrorists attacking in Pakistan and Afghanistan are not motivated by religion? Of course, I mean motivated by the wrong interpretation of the religion - before you misinterpret me on this.

As I said it is very easy to call them on their bluff.

[2:190] You may fight in the cause of GOD against those who attack you, but do not aggress. GOD does not love the aggressors.
[2:193] You may also fight them to eliminate oppression, and to worship GOD freely. If they refrain, you shall not aggress; aggression is permitted only against the aggressors.

[8:61] If they resort to peace, so shall you, and put your trust in GOD. He is the Hearer, the Omniscient.

[4:90] ... if they leave you alone, refrain from fighting you, and offer you peace, then GOD gives you no excuse to fight them.

It is very easy to call them in their bluff in any language not just Arabic.

---------- Post added at 02:09 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:07 AM ----------

So you mean all the terrorists attacking in Pakistan and Afghanistan are not motivated by religion? Of course, I mean motivated by the wrong interpretation of the religion - before you misinterpret me on this.

I also suggest you watch Rafi's video... It will clear things even further for you regarding the Arabic language.

 

[President Camacho]

Will you carry a religious scholar with you at all times?? The loss of proper meaning.. proper context.
precisely for the reason that when asked about what he understood he can bring up the original text and recite it.. and then repeat it in his/her own language that YES .. this is what I read and understood.
It is the same as my friend from Germany read it.. and understood it.
We both know what the original is... and this is what each of us understood by it.

I only meant the for the religious scholars to translate the book for a foreign people to read.

yes, but dont recall it clearly.. and still think mark wahlberg is a crappy actor..

I mentioned the movie because I felt I saw something, some type of subliminal message in it. The ship falls down, the apes living there find parts of words that read "Calima". They take the pet ape of Mark (Wahlberg) as some kind of prophet, and create their own world treating humans as pets. Later in time, Mark comes and they fight him, then Mark's pet ape (who was taken as their prophet) comes down too and they realize they did not know a greater part of truth and history that Mark brought for them. Well it is off-topic, but I wonder some times if others saw this too.

 

[Porus]

I resist Arabanization of my people, and I equally resist Urdunization of my people.

I don't assosiate myself with Urdu or Ghalib; Tipu or Akbar are not my heroes.

What happened to the cultures and languages of the Indus Valley?

No one tells us the history of our people; No one teaches us the languages our forefathers spoke; No one tells us the stories of our gallant people who shed their blood to keep this land and its peaceful and industrious people free from slavery.

Khushal is my poet; Porus is my king; Pashto and Sindhi are my languages.

Give me my identity back!

 

[Rafi]

^^^^^
You must not have lived in Pakistan, because we are taught about the IVC and the Sufi Baba's who converted people to Islam, my whole clan surrendered to the power of one baba, we could not defend ourselves from the idea's from which our swords, spears, lances were useless.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

I resist Arabanization of my people, and I equally resist Urdunization of my people.

I don't assosiate myself with Urdu or Ghalib; Tipu or Akbar are not my heroes.

What happened to the cultures and languages of the Indus Valley?

No one tells us the history of our people; No one teaches us the languages our forefathers spoke; No one tells us the stories of our gallant people who shed their blood to keep this land and its peaceful and industrious people free from slavery.

Khushal is my poet; Porus is my king; Pashto and Sindhi are my languages.

Give me my identity back!

Who took it?


Seriously... who is forcing you to not name ur sons porus? who is forcing you to speak "urdu" in ur house or with ur frnds (who understand it).


Its ur own people... who r ashamed to speak ur native languages .... they think tht by speaking it ur villagers n crap!


So reject this crappy thinking....

 

[Leader]

under British patronage when the hindus first tried to subdue Indian muslims, the attack was on Language-the Urdu-Hindi controversy, first blow was already made by lord Macaulay's efforts, by removing persian and arabic from offices and schools, so muslims turned to common man's language...which was then confronted by the hindus despite it was their language too...

on one occasion Nehru said "A change of script is very vital change for any language, with a rich past, for a script is a most intimate part of its literature. Change the script and and different word-pictures arise, different sounds, different ideas"

moreover, another historian toynbee said "there was no need tu burn, the great libraries of a nation, it unnecessarily brought bad name; enough is it to change the script of a nation's language"

so the point is if script can bring new ideas, imagine abandoning the original text would cost ? no wonder there is wisdom in keeping the original text in original language, take jews or hindus efforts to keep their dead languages alive, for example...


so therefore,if we are to localize the message instead of ourselves being localized with accordance to the message, simply shows the mindset that caste, creed, race, region is being given priority over the message of humanity carried in Quran and Prophet's life !!

 

[Rafi]

Who took it?


Seriously... who is forcing you to not name ur sons porus? who is forcing you to speak "urdu" in ur house or with ur frnds (who understand it).


Its ur own people... who r ashamed to speak ur native languages .... they think tht by speaking it ur villagers n crap!


So reject this crappy thinking....

120% true, most of the time, if you keep yourself to yourself - people will just ignore you.

 

[Erhabi]

I resist Arabanization of my people, and I equally resist Urdunization of my people.

I don't assosiate myself with Urdu or Ghalib; Tipu or Akbar are not my heroes.

What happened to the cultures and languages of the Indus Valley?

No one tells us the history of our people; No one teaches us the languages our forefathers spoke; No one tells us the stories of our gallant people who shed their blood to keep this land and its peaceful and industrious people free from slavery.

Khushal is my poet; Porus is my king; Pashto and Sindhi are my languages.

Give me my identity back!

and Adam(A.S) was our father...and after becoming Muslims we owe everything to our last Prophet Muhammad(S.A.W)...our King is Allah our leader is Muhammad(S.A.W)...For the defence of the places i wud kill and die for, Pakistan, Makkah and Madinah..