Belgium allows PKK to celebrate the anniversary of its first terror attack against Turkey

[Penguin]

Lol the whole day you are arguing that Belgian police decided to not interfere with the demo. Now why'd they not interfere? Even when the demo is illegal? Even if the demo is pro-terrorism? Even when the demo supports a group that the EU recognises as a terror group? By not interfering you are guilty of supporting terrorism in Turkey. Those that stand by and let it happen are just as guilty as those doing it. The EU s arrogance and hypocrisy will be reason for its destruction, I can't wait for the far right to tear this spineless entity into pieces.

None of us here know why they didn't interfere. It's all speculation. You have a theory, namely that Belgium supports PKK. I have an alternative theory, namely that the local cop in charge (who probably has to answer/accommodate 2 or more majors) decided that clearing the space would be worse than supervising the scene and waiting untill the demonstrators quietly dispersed. And that is all. You seem ready to pass judgement without knowing (or perhaps even wanting to know) what actually transpired. I am not doing that.

Finally:
I don't quite see how the handling of one demonstration suddenly equals Belgian national government or EU policy.
Huff and puff all you want,but not beating down a demonstration does not equate to supporting terrorism in Turkey.

Good day.

 

[CrimsonFury]

None of us here know why they didn't interfere. It's all speculation. You have a theory, namely that Belgium supports PKK. I have an alternative theory, namely that the local cop in charge (who probably has to answer/accommodate 2 or more majors) decided that clearing the space would be worse than supervising the scene and waiting untill the demonstrators quietly dispersed. And that is all. You seem ready to pass judgement without knowing (or perhaps even wanting to know) what actually transpired. I am not doing that.

Finally:
I don't quite see how the handling of one demonstration suddenly equals Belgian national government or EU policy.
Huff and puff all you want,but not beating down a demonstration does not equate to supporting terrorism in Turkey.

Good day.

Well chuck in the fact that the PKK are allowed to erect tents in front of the EP and that Belgium "lost" a known terrorist (Fehriye Erdal) while she was under their custody then you get the impression that Brussels does indeed approve of terror attacks against Turkey.

Good day mate

 

[-SINAN-]

demonstration

A "demonstration" that promotes terrorism.

Belgium authorities allowed a demonstration that promotes terrorism in Turkey.

Belgium authorities are accomplices of terrorists by allowing them to promote terrorism, plain simple.

 

[Penguin]

You definitely need to inform yourself about Turkey and the relations with the EU.

At least I, unlike some posters here (whom you're not lecturing) know PKK predates IS by decades

You can come talking to me and other Turks here about whatever topic you want and we will be all ears, but when it comes to our country and, for example, the relationship with the EU, then we don't appreciate it when a foreigner is clearly misinformed, yet is talking from a high horse. So, get off that high horse first.

Oh, you (and unless you are of royal blood, you are not 'we') have a problem with TONE. Well, there are plenty here on this forum that strike up far worse tone than I do. Keep riding your own high horse and admonish them. It is rather interesting because I actually haven't said anything against Turkey. Kindly show which specific things I posted are misinformed (keeping in mind not to confuse misinformed and 'of a different opinion')

No need to get complicated with 'Belgian municipalities' and what not.

Sure, why bother with relevant detail? Don't sprain your brain.

Such pkk protests have been happening for who knows how many years in the EU.

That's because demonstrating is allowed here. Even if the demonstrators have something to say that 'we' might not like.

Let's see what Belgium allows despite having the pkk on its terrorist list;

1. Allowing pkk supporters to set up tents in Brussels and make propaganda there.
   http://www.hurriyet.com.tr/teror-or...nti-brukselde-actigi-cadir-hala-faal-40073066
2. Belgium does not extradite pkk and other terrorists to Turkey.
   http://www.dailysabah.com/war-on-te...kk-rejects-20-extradition-demands-from-ankara
3. pkk supporters are free to protest.
   (See this article)
4. EU parliament in Brussels allowed pyd/pkk propaganda.
   http://aa.com.tr/en/anadolu-post/eu-parliament-criticized-over-terrorist-photo-exhibit/606486

1. Its a free country!
2. They must have a reason for that. I know for a fact that in 2010 a Dutch court refused to back the deportation of Hasan Adir, saying Adir risked being tried a second time for the same offence. The court also said Adir had been tortured in Turkey. http://ekurd.net/mismas/articles/misc2010/3/turkey2592.htm
3. Its a free country!
4. Belgium has nothing to say about the EU parliament in Brussels (know though jurisdictions)

At this point, Belgium (and some other EU states) might as well remove the pkk from the terror list and at least be direct with us instead of pretending to be combating the pkk

Next time I talk to the Belgian Prime Minister, I'll suggest it to him on your behalf, ok?

 

[-SINAN-]

At least I, unlike some posters here (whom you're not lecturing) know PKK predates IS by decades


Oh, you (and unless you are of royal blood, you are not 'we') have a problem with TONE. Well, there are plenty here on this forum that strike up far worse tone than I do. Keep riding your own high horse and admonish them. It is rather interesting because I actually haven't said anything against Turkey. Kindly show which specific things I posted are misinformed (keeping in mind not to confuse misinformed and 'of a different opinion')


Sure, why bother with relevant detail? Don't sprain your brain.

That's because demonstrating is allowed here. Even if the demonstrators have something to say that 'we' might not like.


1. Its a free country!
2. They must have a reason for that. I know for a fact that in 2010 a Dutch court refused to back the deportation of Hasan Adir, saying Adir risked being tried a second time for the same offence. The court also said Adir had been tortured in Turkey. http://ekurd.net/mismas/articles/misc2010/3/turkey2592.htm
3. Its a free country!
4. Belgium has nothing to say about the EU parliament in Brussels (know though jurisdictions)

Next time I talk to the Belgian Prime Minister, I'll suggest it to him on your behalf, ok?

Again with the same "demonstration" narrative.

see post #47

 

[Penguin]

Again with the same "demonstration" narrative.

see post #47

Actually, see post #1. Don't blame me for their (your own?) choice of terms.

 

[-SINAN-]

Actually, see post #1. Don't blame me for their (your own?) choice of terms.

Article clearly denounces, Belgium state for their support for terrorism.

Yet, you refer to this terrorism supporting "demonstration"...like some kind of "save the kittens demonstration"....

You are fooling nobody here, so stop being intellectually dishonest.

 

[Penguin]

Article clearly denounces, Belgium state for their support for terrorism.

Allowing a demonstration? Actually, not breaking up a un-authorized demonstration is not support for terrorism.

Yet, you refer to this terrorism supporting "demonstration"...like some kind of "save the kittens demonstration"....

There are folks in the Netherlands conducting pro-IS demonstrations (because people have a right to demonstrate). So what. Does the Netherlands now support IS?

You are fooling nobody here, so stop being intellectually dishonest.

Pot v. Kettle.
You are making believe (you claim) that I support something. I don't.
You claim my neighbours support something, they don't
You claim the EU supports something, my country is a EU member, 'we' don't.

You are so wrapped up in your own story, that you fail to see error and fail to allow nuance or alternative perspectives (i.e. different interpretations of the same underlying facts). That mentality is killing this forum, where you (like me) are a GUEST.

On a lighter note: https://defence.pk/threads/germany-official-report-labels-turkey-a-terror-state.444599/ (if true, this is rather surprising to me)

 

[usernameless]

At least I, unlike some posters here (whom you're not lecturing) know PKK predates IS by decades


Oh, you (and unless you are of royal blood, you are not 'we') have a problem with TONE. Well, there are plenty here on this forum that strike up far worse tone than I do. Keep riding your own high horse and admonish them. It is rather interesting because I actually haven't said anything against Turkey. Kindly show which specific things I posted are misinformed (keeping in mind not to confuse misinformed and 'of a different opinion')


Sure, why bother with relevant detail? Don't sprain your brain.

That's because demonstrating is allowed here. Even if the demonstrators have something to say that 'we' might not like.


1. Its a free country!
2. They must have a reason for that. I know for a fact that in 2010 a Dutch court refused to back the deportation of Hasan Adir, saying Adir risked being tried a second time for the same offence. The court also said Adir had been tortured in Turkey. http://ekurd.net/mismas/articles/misc2010/3/turkey2592.htm
3. Its a free country!
4. Belgium has nothing to say about the EU parliament in Brussels (know though jurisdictions)

Next time I talk to the Belgian Prime Minister, I'll suggest it to him on your behalf, ok?

I don't know where you are from (no flags), but if i start talking about your country and its problems, i would not ride a high horse and write with a tone like you're doing with my country. If you don't know about a subject sufficiently, simply listen and ask questions instead of making claims and siding with a side.

Let's keep it really simple and go through the previous 4 points again and see whether you will say 'it's a free country' again: Replace pkk with isis and replace Turkey with the US.

The day isis is allowed to hold 'demonstrations' and erect tents in Belgium, wave flags of Baghdadi, hold an isis exhibition at the EU parliament, does not get its members, important ones, extradited to the US by the Belgian authorities on the grounds of 'possible Guantanamo tortures', will be the day i will leave this forum in shame. Remember, both the pkk and isis are on the US and EU terror list. We both know isis will never get the chance to do these in their wildest dreams, but why can the pkk if they are on the same terrorist list?

EU is being a hypocrite when it comes to terrorism in Turkey, and this is not new news for us.

There are folks in the Netherlands conducting pro-IS demonstrations (because people have a right to demonstrate). So what. Does the Netherlands now support IS?

Breaking up an illegal demonstration is normal, happens everywhere. However, allowing pkk supporters to erect tents with propaganda material in front of the EU parliament AND allowing a pkk exhibition at the EU parliament are events that clearly have been approved by the authorities.

As i said, EU is being hypocrite and insincere towards terrorism in Turkey.

 

[Penguin]

I don't know where you are from (no flags), but if i start talking about your country and its problems, i would not ride a high horse and write with a tone like you're doing with my country. If you don't know about a subject sufficiently, simply listen and ask questions instead of making claims and siding with a side.

Let's keep it really simple and go through the previous 4 points again and see whether you will say 'it's a free country' again: Replace pkk with isis and replace Turkey with the US.

The day isis is allowed to hold 'demonstrations' and erect tents in Belgium, wave flags of Baghdadi, hold an isis exhibition at the EU parliament, does not get its members, important ones, extradited to the US by the Belgian authorities on the grounds of 'possible Guantanamo tortures', will be the day i will leave this forum in shame. Remember, both the pkk and isis are on the US and EU terror list. We both know isis will never get the chance to do these in their wildest dreams, but why can the pkk if they are on the same terrorist list?

EU is being a hypocrite when it comes to terrorism in Turkey, and this is not new news for us.

Yeah yeah yeah.

If you look at the beginning of this thread, I haven't started with talking about another countries problems.
All of you busibudies ride a high horse and strike combative tone a the drop of a hat.
You claim I side, but I don't.

Again, like so many before you, you make the mistake of equating an operational decision with national and even supranational policy. And of course, in the end we are all US puppets, right?

ISIS-demonstratie Den Haag mag
ISIS gösteri Lahey olabilir
ISIS demonstration The Hague allowed

17-06-2014, 20:39 17-06-2014, 20:39

Aangepast op düzeltilmiş 17-06-2014, 22:36 17-06-2014, 22:36
Binnenland taşra Domestic

De gemeente Den Haag ziet geen mogelijkheden om een pro-ISIS-demonstratie vrijdag te verbieden.
Lahey Cuma yanlısı ISIS gösteri yasağı için herhangi bir olanak görmez.
The Hague does not see any possibilities to ban a pro-ISIS demonstration Friday.

Dat heeft burgemeester Van Aartsen laten weten.
Van Aartsen Belediye haberdar olduğunu.
That Mayor Van Aartsen informed the press.

Op internet verscheen onlangs een oproep om te demonstreren tegen sjiieten in Irak en Syrië.
Internet üzerinde son zamanlarda Irak ve Suriye'de Şiilere karşı göstermek için bir çağrı yayınladı.
On the Internet recently published a call to demonstrate against Shiites in Iraq and Syria.

De soennitische strijders van ISIS hebben in korte tijd grote delen van Noord-Irak veroverd en zijn niet ver meer van Bagdad.
Sünni savaşçılar ISIS kısa sürede Kuzey Irak'taki büyük bölümünü fethetti ve Bağdat uzak değil.
The Sunni fighters ISIS conquered large parts of northern Iraq in a short time and are not far from Baghdad.

Verbod yasak prohibition
In de Tweede Kamer hebben CDA en ChristenUnie gepleit voor een verbod op de demonstratie.
Ev CDA ve Hıristiyan Birliği gösteri yasağı için çağrıda bulundular.
In the House [Parliament] CDA and Christian Union have called for a ban on the demonstration.

Dat kan volgens de partijen, omdat de VN ISIS officieel tot terroristische organisatie heeft uitgeroepen.
BM ISIS resmen terör örgütü ilan etti, çünkü bu, partilere göre can.
This can be done according to the parties, because the UN ISIS has officially declared a terrorist organization.

Volgens minister Timmermans is het een zaak van de gemeente Den Haag.
Bakan Timmermans göre Lahey belediyenin sorumluluğundadır.
According to Minister Timmermans is the responsibility of the municipality of The Hague.

Burgemeester Van Aartsen zegt nu dat er geen wettelijke gronden zijn die het mogelijk maken om de demonstratie op voorhand te verbieden.
Belediye Van Aartsen artık mümkün önceden gösteri yasağı yapmak hiçbir yasal zemin bulunmadığını söyledi.
Mayor Van Aartsen now says there are no legal grounds that make it possible to ban the demonstration in advance.

Wel worden strenge voorwaarden gesteld aan de bijeenkomst.
Ancak, sıkı koşullar toplantıya empoze edilmektedir.
However, strict conditions are imposed on the meeting.

Zo wordt er extra gelet op strafbare uitingen, zoals het oproepen tot geweld.
Böylece, ek böyle şiddete teşvik gibi suç ifadeleri, dikkate.
Thus, additional considation and attention is given to criminal statements, such as incitement to violence.

Volgens Den Haag houden de politie en het OM de demonstratie vrijdag scherp in de gaten.
Lahey'e göre polis ve gösteri Cuma keskin bir göz tutmak
According to The Hague, the police will keep a sharp eye on the demonstration Friday

http://nos.nl/artikel/662569-isis-demonstratie-den-haag-mag.html

It ended up being a gathering of 40 guys with covered faces shouting 'ISIS is the best'
An equally small counterdemonstration ensued.
Police were present at a distance
Words were exchanged, some shouting followed.
Everybody went home eventually
End of story
Welcome to The Netherlands

 

[usernameless]

Yeah yeah yeah.

If you look at the beginning of this thread, I haven't started with talking about another countries problems.
All of you busibudies ride a high horse and strike combative tone a the drop of a hat.
You claim I side, but I don't.

Again, like so many before you, you make the mistake of equating an operational decision with national and even supranational policy. And of course, in the end we are all US puppets, right?



http://nos.nl/artikel/662569-isis-demonstratie-den-haag-mag.html

It ended up being a gathering of 40 guys with covered faces shouting 'ISIS is the best'
An equally small counterdemonstration ensued.
Police were present at a distance
Words were exchanged, some shouting followed.
Everybody went home eventually
End of story
Welcome to The Netherlands

View attachment 326588

View attachment 326589

Seems you couldn't answer those 4 points again. Re-read my previous post and go through those 4 points one by one instead of cherry picking only one point to make it appear as if isis is given the same ground like the pkk in EU. I don't expect an answer anymore as you could have provided one in your last post. I will give you the answers though; isis will never be allowed to hold an exhibition at the EU parliament nor will the Belgian authorities ever dare to refuse to extradite an important isis member to the US on the grounds of 'possible Guantanamo Bay tortures'. Furthermore, one case of pro-isis protest (from back in June 2014, when almost nothing was known yet about isis and its atrocities) in the Netherlands does not mean that the Belgian authorities will approve one as well, especially after suffering severely from isis attacks themselves.

 

[Penguin]

Dutch Court Refuses to Extradite Terrorism Suspect to United States Because of U.S. Torture
http://www.care2.com/causes/dutch-c...-to-united-states-because-of-u-s-torture.html
January 2015

France typically doesn’t extradite in cases where the suspect may face the death penalty. Likewise for Germany, which also considers the possibility of the suspect dying (getting killed) in prison (irrespective of capital punishment).

See you tomorrow.

 

[usernameless]

Dutch Court Refuses to Extradite Terrorism Suspect to United States Because of U.S. Torture
http://www.care2.com/causes/dutch-c...-to-united-states-because-of-u-s-torture.html
January 2015

France typically doesn’t extradite in cases where the suspect may face the death penalty. Likewise for Germany, which also considers the possibility of the suspect dying (getting killed) in prison (irrespective of capital punishment).

See you tomorrow.

The terrorist in question is officially a Pakistani-Dutch citizen, which makes matters complicated and serious for the Netherlands. Do you think the Netherlands wouldn't extradite a non-Dutch or an American isis member to the US? Those pkk, dhkp-c and recently Gulenists fleeing (why flee if you're innocent anyway? ) to EU are not all EU citizens, yet the EU is hellbent on protecting them.

Fully agree with that Abigail in the article. Anyone with clear ties to a terrorist organization should not be afraid of torture, they should have thought twice before joining or committing a deed. Imo, countries not extraditing because of torture excuse, despite evidence of ties, are the ones that havent experienced terrorism at all. If you got statistics, i wonder how the torture statistics are for France and Belgium after all those isis attacks. Not extraditing pkk, dhkp-c and Gulenists to Turkey because of some torture reports, despite the terrorists having a clear tie, is just an excuse to block the legal extradition process.

 

[Penguin]

Yes, Always something to complain. 2 out of 4.

 

[usernameless]

Yes, Always something to complain. 2 out of 4.

Learned it from the EU.
2 out of 4 for trying.