Basic Training?

[Keysersoze]

Sword it is quite simple.....the 7.62's primary disadvantage over the smaller round is the amount that can be carried. For a sniper it is more important to have a heavier round such as the 7.62 than for a regular infantryman.

1. Most of them aren't engaging targets at distances over 400 metres. Most of the time infantry combat takes place around 400 or so meters. and in cities it can be far less than that.
2. Your average sqauddie is not that a great shot at distances greater than 400 metres. Also, the round has heavier recoil than an smaller round which can reduce accuracy
3. You can carry lot's and lot's of lighter ammo. I once went through 300 rounds in an hour (luckily i had lots of loose rounds in my rucksack)

Having said all that I have heard (anecdotally) that the heavier round has a LOT more stopping power.

I am willing to guess there are lots of gun types who can fill in looooot more detail lol

 

[blain2]

I am speaking of ranges of 100-200 mtrs, and for anything beyond that I would prefer anything but the AK-47/Type-56. Its very difficult to get a 2 inch grouping at 100 mtrs with an AK, while an MP-5 the Sterlings silenced version gives that accuracy with easy and (not the standard sterling though - the sight is a little rudimentary).

Hmm I have done pretty decent with Type-56 at about 150-200 meters. I do not know of very many other rifles in the price range of the T-56 without scopes that tend to do a very good job of 2 inch grouping around the 200 to 300 yards.

The problem with the AK is the short sight radius and open 'V' sights.

I agree. I think this has been one of the reasons why scopes on IWs have become a very common thing.

We are trying to get rid of it. The INSAS carbine has been shelved, but some sources say that Israeli assistance is being sought.

I think you guys placed a fairly large order with IMI for TAVORs.

We don't use it in operations, if we can help it. But give it to the state police forces to protect corrupt politicians with that weapon

I love this one. We need to pull out a few of the M-1s from storage for the VVIP duty in Pakistan too...

How old are you? I though that you were my father's seniority.

No not that old ...approaching the dreaded 40s.

I though that you guys used the good old Sten gun in 1965 and the Czech Samapol Sa.25, because the Sterling was a only inducted by the IA in 1963/64.

I do not recall any of the units (even the SSG) using the Sa.25 (maye some exceptions but I have never seen one).

But you are absolutely correct on the Sten..I was actually comparing our use of the older SMG like the Sten gun with the Sterling (which also was inducted by the British Army in the late 50s). I think both were around the same era (Sten predating the Sterling SMG by a decade I think). When my father was in serving during the 65 war, he had the Sten Gun and the Garand M-1s in his unit. G-3 was slowly coming in but the unit had not re-equipped with the G-3 back then. It was only in the early 80s that the Sten was completely replaced by the indiginous MP-5 series.

 

[sparten]

Hey for the 65 war don't forget the good old BAR. You should check out 10 Baloch's war dairy for info on its use,

 

[Keysersoze]

The Sterling was actually still in service till 1988 in the British army (By the parachute regiment amongst others.) For the fans of STAR WARS it was the basis for the stormtrooper guns

As for the SA-80.........I am sure I don't have to explain to you gentlemen how soldiers can be messed around by Governments/Suppliers etc etc:tdown

 

[sword9]

Hmm I have done pretty decent with Type-56 at about 150-200 meters. I do not know of very many other rifles in the price range of the T-56 without scopes that tend to do a very good job of 2 inch grouping around the 200 to 300 yards.

O.K if we ever meet we will go to a range and prove each other worng.

I think you guys placed a fairly large order with IMI for TAVORs.

The Paras and SF units get their own toys, they feel incomplete without changing weapons every 10 years.

I love this one. We need to pull out a few of the M-1s from storage for the VVIP duty in Pakistan too...

Come on the M-1 is far more safer than the Sten/ Sterling, pull out the old stens.

No not that old ...approaching the dreaded 40s.

I thought that you were a retired old timer, anyway I'll drop the sir then, you are my parallel.

Have you served in your 12 Div sector?

 

[sword9]

The Sterling was actually still in service till 1988 in the British army (By the parachute regiment amongst others.) For the fans of STAR WARS it was the basis for the stormtrooper guns

As for the SA-80.........I am sure I don't have to explain to you gentlemen how soldiers can be messed around by Governments/Suppliers etc etc:tdown

I am told that the Paras will get less jump practice, due to a GBP1 billion cut in the defence budget.

 

[Keysersoze]

I am told that the Paras will get less jump practice, due to a GBP1 billion cut in the defence budget.

Yeah it is regarded as a huge scandal here

The Type-56 must have different settings to the original Ak. The one I fired had the automatic setting first.

The only thing I could find on it was on Wikipedia but I place it here anyway

Firing mode

The AK-47 and M16A1 both have a switch allowing the operator to select semi-automatic or fully automatic mode. The M16A1's selector is a small switch located on the left side of the lower receiver, within reach of the thumb of a right-handed user. The first position is safe, followed by semi-auto, and full-auto. The AK-47's is located on the right side, a large lever pushed up or down. The top-most position was safe, the middle was full-auto, and the bottom semi-auto. The M16's selector can be manipulated with the thumb while firmly holding the pistol grip and forearm. Beginning with the M16A2 model, the ability to select fully automatic fire was replaced by a three-round burst mode to aid in efficiency and accuracy. Some of the later derivatives of M16, such as the M16A3 and the M4A1 have the fully automatic firing mode.

The AK-47 was the result of Soviet combat experience during World War II. Studies of battlefield reports showed that most combat occurred within 300 meters, and the winner was usually the side with the most firepower. The bolt-action and large-cartridge semi-automatic rifles used on the eastern front were not optimal choices for this kind of combat, and the late-war submachineguns employed to compensate for these shortcomings lacked range and accuracy, leading to compromise designs such as the SKS-45, and later AK-47, with the AK-47 considered the ultimate answer to these goals. It would give the average soldier a high rate of fire rendering an AK-equipped squad?s firepower equivalent to submachineguns at close range, while also having a sufficiently powerful cartridge to engage moderately distant targets. The AK-47 was never meant to be an accurate rifle beyond 600 meters since in mobile warfare, distances were covered rather quickly. It also had the advantage of not needing particularly experienced soldiers to be effective - the gun required very little maintenance, and accuracy wasn?t very important which was ideal for the large conscript-based Soviet army. Weight wasn't important either because Soviet doctrine placed an emphasis on the use of armored spearheads in an attack, followed closely by troop transports like the BTR-70 (which later culminated in the IFV concept, see M2 Bradley, BMP-2).

http://www.blinkbits.com/en_wikifeeds/AK47_vs_M16

 

[Keysersoze]

Also this thread is starting to make me feel like a young whipper snapper lol!

 

[Keysersoze]

Ok to take this in another direction......

What is the primary platoon level AT asset for the PA? I have seen some images of RPG's and have seen listings for Recoiless rifles. Anything else there?

 

[blain2]

Ok to take this in another direction......

What is the primary platoon level AT asset for the PA? I have seen some images of RPG's and have seen listings for Recoiless rifles. Anything else there?

Yep RPG7s are primarily it for now for the infantry. AT and HAT regts are a different ballgame altogether.

 

[blain2]

I thought that you were a retired old timer, anyway I'll drop the sir then, you are my parallel.

Have you served in your 12 Div sector?

Sword no I have not and have been living in luxury in the US for a long while now. And please drop the sir...I am not worthy of it (I am not your parallel either...you know much more than I do).

 

[Keysersoze]

Sword no I have not and have been living in luxury in the US for a long while now. And please drop the sir...I am not worthy of it (I am not your parallel either...you know much more than I do).

I believe the sir comes as a sign of respect for your maturity and debating skills rather than military rank.:army:

 

[blain2]

I believe the sir comes as a sign of respect for your maturity and debating skills rather than military rank.:army:

I appreciate that however many of you are more deserving of this courtesy than myself.

:toast:

 

[Keysersoze]

Anyway I think the PA should look at an upgrade of the RPG-7....
possibly the PF89 or the type 98 system (if other options are not available)

http://www.sinodefence.com/army/individual/pf89.asp

http://www.sinodefence.com/army/crewserved/type98.asp

 

[blain2]

Anyway I think the PA should look at an upgrade of the RPG-7....
possibly the PF89 or the type 98 system (if other options are not available)

http://www.sinodefence.com/army/individual/pf89.asp

http://www.sinodefence.com/army/crewserved/type98.asp

The RPG-7 will be around for a while in the PA service. The benfits are immense, the simple weapon is cheap and extremely rugged. For infantry, its a light weapon and it would be fairly expensive for PA to replace it in the short term (although eventually it would have to be replaced). Pakistan has developed some variants of the weapon including an RPG-7AP for use against personnel and soft skinned vehicles so I see them as sticking around for a while.