Bangladesh is secular, not moderate Muslim country: FM

[Tiki Tam Tam]

My mistake. I meant to say, state religion Islam. Al has been tring hard for last two years to please you by removing Islamic principal but words on. The street is that, it will be suicidal for Awamis future politics.

Not to worry.

You do make it quite regularly and it is but a part of habit.

But take heart.

Swami Sivananda said, “Do not brood over your past mistakes and failures as this will only fill your mind with grief, regret and depression. Do not repeat them in the future.”

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Your secular india doesn' allow it's muslim citizen to sacrifice cow during Eid-ul-adha because cow happen t be God to Hindu majority. We are strickly against shirk activity yet we not only allow them to do puja but also declare national holy day during puja. Note that we have 5 to 6 percent hindu population.
Hindus enjoy freedom in Bangladesh. In fact I think too much. National hindu holy day shuld be withdraw because secular state like usa doesn't grant us holy day for eid although there is christmass day.

I thought you were the last word on Islam.

Here is what Eid Al Adha is all about from Wiki.

Eid al-Adha (Arabic: عيد الأضحى‎ ‘Īdu l-’Aḍḥā; English pronunciation: /ˌiːd ʌl ˈædə/, Arabic: Arabic pronunciation: [ʕiːd al ʔadˁˈħɑː]) or "Festival of Sacrifice" or "Greater Eid" is an important religious holiday celebrated by Muslims worldwide to commemorate the willingness of Abraham (Ibrahim) to sacrifice his son Ishmael (Isma'il) as an act of obedience to God, before God intervened to provide him with a ram to sacrifice instead.[1] The meat is divided into three parts. The family retains one third of the share; another third is given to relatives, friends and neighbors; and the other third is given to the poor & needy.

Now, if God intervened and provided Ishmael with a RAM (dumba/ he goat), why don't you emulate what God offered?

Why do you want a cow? Next, you will ask for an elephant!

Just be true to the ways of God and slaughter what he gave Ishmael.

In India, they salughter dumba or a he goat and they are huge and reared for this purpose alone!!

 

[kugga]

Now, if God intervened and provided Ishmael with a RAM (dumba/ he goat), why don't you emulate what God offered?

Why do you want a cow? Next, you will ask for an elephant!

Just be true to the ways of God and slaughter what he gave Ishmael.

In India, they salughter dumba or a he goat and they are huge and reared for this purpose alone!!

O chudary sb Don't try to interpret Islam by reading just one ayat... Muslims have to slaughter halaal animals like lamb, cow camel etc etc on Eid-ul-Azha and btw Cow slaughter was never banned in the religion hinduism it was just banned by a king of India and Indians are still following his orders....

and for me secularism is just a confused idea which allows people to go away from religion and accept only that much of a religion which suits there needs and discard the one which doesn't suit them.......

 

[Black Widow]

Thanks for your concern about me. I am not alergic to Islam rather concerned about the future of Islam.
You very much know how I view state and religion and their independence. Yes we can make our nation as Muslim as we are majority here. What about those nations where muslims are minority?? If we ourselves, not becoming secular, how we could ask USA govt to be secular where you live. So by becoming secular in a muslim majority country does not harm yourself as a muslim but gives a arsenal to the minority muslim who lives in a majority of other religion. Also you are trying to promote a very harsh Islam where there is no scope for others (you may disagree, but your language does portray that) makes every muslim uncomfortable and hinders the scope for Islam to spread even beyond religious boundary. Islam start as a minority and eventually becomes majority in every nationhood, but it did through benign way, not in a jinguitic way.

Regarding Ziaur Rahman, he had his good and he had his bad. He did nothing to promote Islam but did politics with Islam, sorry to say that.

One of the Best Post I read since last couple of month..Bravo IajDani...

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

What is this guy? A proper example of religious extremist. First one I meet in my life!

He has been desperately attempting to project himself as the final word on Islam.

He finds a large majority of Bangladeshi Muslims as half Hindus and Non-believing Hypocrite (Munafiq).

He has some Companions too. Hang around and you will see them emerge from the woodwork.

Actually its quite amusing that any educated person can have such views on other people that is purely based on religion. In modern days over internet its quite surprising.

I agree what you said about religion and state.

Depends on what one understands by 'education'.

Learning by rote and regurgitating like as would a complacent and happy cow on the examination paper without understanding too gets one a degree - a rubber stamp that the man has attended college.

The real education is in understanding what is taught and applying it in a conducive manner. I presume not all are capable of that in its truest form.

 

[Skies]

I some cases, the current media/trend is brainwasing the youth that Secularism is liberty, smartness and so on. If people want to be secular to show their smartness then that is very sad. Many Bangladeshi youth will not even judge whether Secularism is good-appropriate for BD-context or not. They would go to follow the West to show smartness blindly, without knowing whether in the West true secularism is present or not. Is Italy a secular country, or extremist country?

We never faced such questions in past (secular/Moderate Muslim BD), we never faced any problems, we never were divided on that issue, then why today after AL has came? My ideology is Moderate Muslim Bangladesh, but if BD becomes India-taught secular country, then it is very likely that I will lose my love for my country people. Simple. Who will stop to hate each other on that issue?

 

[twoplustwoisfour]

Is Italy a secular country, or extremist country?

Errr, Italy has a clear cut demarcation between the Church and State. Yes, Italy is secular.

 

[Bang Galore]

I some cases, the current media/trend is brainwasing the youth that Secularism is liberty, smartness and so on. If people want to be secular to show their smartness then that is very sad. Many Bangladeshi youth will not even judge whether Secularism is good-appropriate for BD-context or not. They would go to follow the West to show smartness blindly, without knowing whether in the West true secularism is present or not. Is Italy a secular country, or extremist country?

We never faced such questions in past (secular/Moderate Muslim BD), we never faced any problems, we never were divided on that issue, then why today after AL has came? My ideology is Moderate Muslim Bangladesh, but if BD becomes India-taught secular country, then it is very likely that I will lose my love for my country people. Simple. Who will stop to hate each other on that issue?

You are confusing a lot of issue here. Individuals aren't asked to be secular, the state however should be. Individuals can be as religious (or not) as they want but the state should not be in the business of religion.

 

[saleen_s7]

Well, the idea of secularism is well intended but secularism can have different meanings. One states that to rule with all different sorts of religion, while the another means to rule with no religion. What succeeds in India, will not necessarily succeed in Bangladesh. Now, if Bangladesh can adapt the constitution to secularism which is pretty much like to rule inclusive of all religions, it will probably fail, much like how India has genocides every now and then. Appeasing all religions simultaneously just don't work and often results to clashes. anyways, that just my opinion.

 

[Skies]

Errr, Italy has a clear cut demarcation between the Church and State. Yes, Italy is secular.

Secular state - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (That page was last modified on 15 April 2011 at 00:03.)

WHy Italy is not in this list?

List of secular countries by continent

Africa
Angola[11]
Benin[12]
Botswana[13][14]
Burkina Faso[15]
Burundi[16]
Cameroon[17]
Cape Verde[18]
Chad[19]
Democratic Republic of the Congo[20]
Republic of the Congo[21]
Ethiopia[22]
Gabon[23]
The Gambia[24]
Guinea[25]
Guinea-Bissau[26]
Liberia[27]
Mali[28]
Namibia[29]
Senegal[30]
Somalia[31]
South Africa[32]
[edit]
Americas
Brazil[33]
Canada[34]
Cuba[35]
Honduras[36][37]
Mexico[38]
United States[39]
Puerto Rico[40]
[edit]
Asia
People's Republic of China[41]
East Timor [42]
India[43]
Japan[44]
Kazakhstan[45]
South Korea[46]
Kyrgyzstan[47]
Laos
Nepal[48]
Philippines[49]
Singapore (see Declaration of Religious Harmony, which explicitly states the secular nature of society)
Sri Lanka[50][51]
Syria[52]
Tajikistan
Thailand[53]
Turkmenistan[54][55]
Vietnam[56]
[edit]
Europe
Austria[57]
Albania[58]
Azerbaijan[59]
Belgium[60]
Bosnia and Herzegovina[61]
Bulgaria[62]
Czech Republic[63]
Estonia[64]
France[65]
Germany[66]
Hungary[67]
Ireland[68]
Latvia[69]
Macedonia
Portugal
Romania[70]
Russia[71]
Serbia[72]
Slovakia[73]
Sweden[74]
Turkey[75]
Ukraine
[edit]
Oceania
Australia[76]
Federated States of Micronesia[77]
New Zealand

You are confusing a lot of issue here. Individuals aren't asked to be secular, the state however should be. Individuals can be as religious (or not) as they want but the state should not be in the business of religion.

I am not confused. I am one of the individuals, and the individuals make a country. If I want to see Moderate Muslim BD, and then if majority of individuals want to see Moderate Muslim BD, then just like a election process to elect govt/ as democracy, Moderate Muslim BD will win over secular BD, where 85% people are Muslim.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

O chudary sb Don't try to interpret Islam by reading just one ayat... Muslims have to slaughter halaal animals like lamb, cow camel etc etc on Eid-ul-Azha and btw Cow slaughter was never banned in the religion hinduism it was just banned by a king of India and Indians are still following his orders....

and for me secularism is just a confused idea which allows people to go away

Please correct me since you know everything on Islam.

What did Allah replace Ishamel's son with?

Cows, camel, sheep, chicken, Bulls or any other specie available in the menagerie?

If one claims to be a holier than thou Muslim and all are Munafiqs, then should he not emulate Allah in letter and spirit or should be take the easy way out to suit his convenience?

Secularism is not a confused thought.

It it those who do not understand secularism and are enamoured by their one track mind, gifted with a highly narrow tunnel vision, who find secularism confusing.

Have you ever wondered why the vast majority of Hindus and Christians of India do not treat Islam in the same manner as you find it here amongst the Born Again Muslims like Al Fakira who have just one Agenda in his life - be the last word of Islam and call everyone else including Pakistanis Munafiqs directly or indirectly?

If you have the time just go over his posts that are splattered all over.

I have no problems with his post, except that he thinks everyone else is a irreligious skunk!

He is such a man that he flies the Bangaldeshi flag and condemns the Nation that his own!!

What more can you expect from such a man?

Breathes there the man with soul so dead Who never to himself hath said, This is my own, my native land! Whose heart hath ne’er within him burned,
As home his footsteps he hath turned From wandering on a foreign strand! If such there breathe, go, mark him well;
Despite those titles, power, and pelf, The wretch, concentred all in self, Living, shall forfeit fair renown, And, doubly dying, shall go down To the vile dust from whence he sprung, Unwept, unhonored , and unsung.

This is an excerpt from Walter Scott's poem! It reverberates!

I could discuss at length on religion, but then I would not like to disabuse the privilege extended to me on this forum, this being a foreign forum where the religious sentiments have to be respected.

 

[twoplustwoisfour]

Secular state - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (That page was last modified on 15 April 2011 at 00:03.)

WHy Italy is not in this list?

List of secular countries by continent

Africa
Angola[11]
Benin[12]
Botswana[13][14]
Burkina Faso[15]
Burundi[16]
Cameroon[17]
Cape Verde[18]
Chad[19]
Democratic Republic of the Congo[20]
Republic of the Congo[21]
Ethiopia[22]
Gabon[23]
The Gambia[24]
Guinea[25]
Guinea-Bissau[26]
Liberia[27]
Mali[28]
Namibia[29]
Senegal[30]
Somalia[31]
South Africa[32]
[edit]
Americas
Brazil[33]
Canada[34]
Cuba[35]
Honduras[36][37]
Mexico[38]
United States[39]
Puerto Rico[40]
[edit]
Asia
People's Republic of China[41]
East Timor [42]
India[43]
Japan[44]
Kazakhstan[45]
South Korea[46]
Kyrgyzstan[47]
Laos
Nepal[48]
Philippines[49]
Singapore (see Declaration of Religious Harmony, which explicitly states the secular nature of society)
Sri Lanka[50][51]
Syria[52]
Tajikistan
Thailand[53]
Turkmenistan[54][55]
Vietnam[56]
[edit]
Europe
Austria[57]
Albania[58]
Azerbaijan[59]
Belgium[60]
Bosnia and Herzegovina[61]
Bulgaria[62]
Czech Republic[63]
Estonia[64]
France[65]
Germany[66]
Hungary[67]
Ireland[68]
Latvia[69]
Macedonia
Portugal
Romania[70]
Russia[71]
Serbia[72]
Slovakia[73]
Sweden[74]
Turkey[75]
Ukraine
[edit]
Oceania
Australia[76]
Federated States of Micronesia[77]
New Zealand

If you trust Wiki so much, you would have seen this as well:

State religion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

I some cases, the current media/trend is brainwasing the youth that Secularism is liberty, smartness and so on. If people want to be secular to show their smartness then that is very sad. Many Bangladeshi youth will not even judge whether Secularism is good-appropriate for BD-context or not. They would go to follow the West to show smartness blindly, without knowing whether in the West true secularism is present or not. Is Italy a secular country, or extremist country?

Italy is secular, but the Vatican is not!

There is a difference between Italy and the Vatican, in case you did not know.

People ape the West, because that is where the money is and where all seem to gravitate for a better life. Check how many Bangladeshis are in the UK and US. They did not go there to see the Buckingham Palace or the Grand Canyon, or did they?

Even a person like Al Zakira who is so consumed, is in the US. He hates everything that the US signifies and observes India and Bangladesh through that prism, and yet, wonder of wonders, he has no qualms in enjoying the hospitality and the reaping a rich harvest for himself being there. Hypocrisy takes a new meaning!

We never faced such questions in past (secular/Moderate Muslim BD), we never faced any problems, we never were divided on that issue, then why today after AL has came? My ideology is Moderate Muslim Bangladesh, but if BD becomes India-taught secular country, then it is very likely that I will lose my love for my country people. Simple. Who will stop to hate each other on that issue?

You never faced it because you did not have the worldwide backlash as it happened after 9/11.

Terrorism just took off and there was no comeback!

The onslaught of the West put all on the backfoot and caused immense problems.

The lines got drawn and then the issue of religion surfaced.

Secularism has not been patented by India and so let your imagination not hover always to India.

 

[kugga]

Please correct me since you know everything on Islam.

What did Allah replace Ishamel's son with?

Cows, camel, sheep, chicken, Bulls or any other specie available in the menagerie?

If one claims to be a holier than thou Muslim and all are Munafiqs, then should he not emulate Allah in letter and spirit or should be take the easy way out to suit his convenience?

Secularism is not a confused thought.

It it those who do not understand secularism and are enamoured by their one track mind, gifted with a highly narrow tunnel vision, who find secularism confusing.

Have you ever wondered why the vast majority of Hindus and Christians of India do not treat Islam in the same manner as you find it here amongst the Born Again Muslims like Al Fakira who have just one Agenda in his life - be the last word of Islam and call everyone else including Pakistanis Munafiqs directly or indirectly?

If you have the time just go over his posts that are splattered all over.

I have no problems with his post, except that he thinks everyone else is a irreligious skunk!

He is such a man that he flies the Bangaldeshi flag and condemns the Nation that his own!!

What more can you expect from such a man?

Breathes there the man with soul so dead Who never to himself hath said, This is my own, my native land! Whose heart hath ne’er within him burned,
As home his footsteps he hath turned From wandering on a foreign strand! If such there breathe, go, mark him well;
Despite those titles, power, and pelf, The wretch, concentred all in self, Living, shall forfeit fair renown, And, doubly dying, shall go down To the vile dust from whence he sprung, Unwept, unhonored , and unsung.

This is an excerpt from Walter Scott's poem! It reverberates!

I could discuss at length on religion, but then I would not like to disabuse the privilege extended to me on this forum, this being a foreign forum where the religious sentiments have to be respected.

I never said that I know everything about Islam and if you really want to know answer to your quesiton .. just relax and and read the holy quran you'll definitely find the answer there.. but read it after omitting all your hate towards Islam... that's all I can say to you about Islam.

and secularism is a confused idea coz in my opinion state is made up of individuals and if individuals are not secular how can a state be ?

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

I never said that I know everything about Islam and if you really want to know answer to your quesiton .. just relax and and read the holy quran you'll definitely find the answer there.. but read it after omitting all your hate towards Islam... that's all I can say to you about Islam.

and secularism is a confused idea coz in my opinion state is made up of individuals and if individuals are not secular how can a state be ?

My friend, your perverted imagination conjures the image that I hate Islam.

Far from it.

There are close relations who are Muslim and so I cannot even contemplate such a vision!

Please do not undertake a hop scotch and obfuscate.

Must I read the Quaran in its entirety? Does the Quaran only centres around Eid-ul-Azha?

The question is simple. Just answer that.

With what did Allah replace Ishmael's son?

Shouldn't the answer be adequate to show what he substituted Ishamel's son with?

State can be secular, while individuals practice their religion.

How?

Because the State's law is not religion centric.

And the State has the instruments to implement it.