Azerbaijan Defence Programs & Military Development

[cabatli_53]

the only major project I know for "ToT" is the joint development of medium tank for Indonesia, and there the engine is foreign, the turret is foreign and how many other parts are foreign? so what Technology transfer do you even provide when you don't own the large % of the technology?
As for some upgrade programs, Aselsan got beat by Elbit in tank modernization program but they managed to beat Rafael in aviation upgrades for the Air Force, what is the issue here? in both cases Azerbaijan selected the winner.

as for naval boats, Azerbaijani Sa'ar ships come with Spike NLOS, giving ability for Coast Guard to deal with targets of up to 30kms, Sa'ar 72 includes Barak-8 missiles and will be the only ships in Caspian capable of dealing with aerial targets at medium ranges. Neither Milgem nor your other patrol boats provide such capability, unless you head for another supplier, which really makes no point in buying from you in the first place.

Optic Systems, Azerbaijan will purchase 40+ Aselpods for its Su-25s, MiG-29s and JF-17s, again what is the problem?

Artillery Rockets, Azerbaijan is the biggest user of TR-122/300s, what is the issue?

as for tracked and wheeled armored vehicles, how many times do I have to mention failed deliveries of T-155 Firtina? other tracked and wheeled vehicles also use Western engines.

I just kindly advice you to keep your knowledge for yourself when It comes to talk about Turkish industry. Besides, If you wanna see foreign components ( It seems you like checking foreign parts of Turkish products), check your Israeli boats and armoured vehicles, even some section of their radars, missiles instead of generating excuses for Turkish industry. You will see almost all sections are foreign excluding their designs and armours of vehicles. No need to mention engines. In this aspect, Which tech did you receive in those deals? BTW, It is up to costumers’ decision to use whatever they want in terms of turret so do not compose fairy tales to me with a teacher like behavier in that matter. I am aware of what I am talking about with some background info. If I don’t want to talk much, Just respect it instead of playing smart with talking bad about Turkish defence industry.

 

[XTQ1999]

I just kindly advice you to keep your knowledge for yourself when It comes to talk about Turkish industry.

Oh so sorry, we'll make sure not to discuss Turkish Defense Industry in Turkish Defense Section, because only you are allowed to do so.

Besides, If you wanna see foreign components ( It seems you like checking foreign parts of Turkish products), check your Israeli boats and armoured vehicles, even some section of their radars, missiles instead of generating excuses for Turkish industry.

Israel has radars and missiles, your radars and missiles are still in development, which is why you are buying Russian and American missiles.

It is up to costumers’ decision to use whatever they want in terms of turret so do not compose fairy tales to me with a teacher like behavier in that matter.

yes its customers choice, except you don't have any 105mm turrets to offer, and their choice was limited, and a turret is a pretty vital system of a tank wouldn't you say? so what exactly is the point of a tech transfer if the customer still has major reliance on foreign imports?

 

[Test7]

Oh so sorry, we'll make sure not to discuss Turkish Defense Industry in Turkish Defense Section, because only you are allowed to do so.



Israel has radars and missiles, your radars and missiles are still in development, which is why you are buying Russian and American missiles.



yes its customers choice, except you don't have any 105mm turrets to offer, and their choice was limited, and a turret is a pretty vital system of a tank wouldn't you say? so what exactly is the point of a tech transfer if the customer still has major reliance on foreign imports?

I think it's better to follow the Israeli defense industry. You have forgotten Turkish identity from staying between Russia and Israel. I hope the spike missiles help to take it back Karabag.

 

[GlobalMillitary96]

Can both sides please shut up. Look at the bright side. If Azerbaijan buys Israeli equipment then it gives us an opportunity to study their technology...

 

[cabatli_53]

Oh so sorry, we'll make sure not to discuss Turkish Defense Industry in Turkish Defense Section, because only you are allowed to do so.



Israel has radars and missiles, your radars and missiles are still in development, which is why you are buying Russian and American missiles.



yes its customers choice, except you don't have any 105mm turrets to offer, and their choice was limited, and a turret is a pretty vital system of a tank wouldn't you say? so what exactly is the point of a tech transfer if the customer still has major reliance on foreign imports?

Dude, It is not about being allowed or not. You should just use your knowledge and brain power to realize How great percentage Israeli systems consist of foreign subsystems instead of generating excuses to accuse Turkish industry with using same card in here. Even if you try to create a perception like It is about Turkey, It has nothing to do with Turkish industry. It is related with solely you and your decision. In this aspect, Who are you/your ideology? Yes, you are unfortunately charged group of a project in our brother state who is working for the benefits of your masters in all fields but I believe there is not much people like you in Azerbaijan. Anyway, We do not discuss who has radars or missiles. Put Israeli downgraded, outdated boats against superior Turkish proposals aside, You selected Israeli corvette that Israel itself do not have infrastructure to produce neither naval subsystems, nor the ship itself but defending here the needlessness of making tech transfer deals with Turkish institutes cause of pointing out a specific example to create a perception as if Azerbaijan requested a 105mm turrent but Turkey couldn’t offer. I do not even mention How great privileges Turkish institutes offered Azerbaijan many times including a state of art shipyard and land vehicles manufacturing facility. Such a biased mindset to cover up your corrupt mechanism actually explain well what is going on in your procurement system. You are a good example to introduce background image of your guys in charge. The guys like you are the main reason while Aselsan TAKS are selected in Kazakstan against Elbit while eliminated in the hands of Azeri politicians. It is no need to water down the subject with talking BS about Turkish systems. Firstly check your contradicting logic in a body mirror instead of continuously revealing excuses to downgrade Turkish systems. It is the reason you should keep your knowledge for yourself When It comes to talk about Turkish industry. I can list tens of tech transfer deal about specific technological areas with many countries. If any single mid-long term procurement program are not achieved between Azerbaijan and Turkey and having just tens of million $ in defense trade volume between two state, That is a shame for brotherhood but Try to find guilty in your hired minds, not good will of Turkiye and Turkish people who always talk about brotherhood with all good will, while you prefer to turn your back and talk sh@t about Turkish efforts. I will never waste the efforts of my proud country and people for the sake of a few corrupt, money lover hired guys for many tenders inside Azerbaijani procurement system.

 

[Islamic faith&Secularism]

The BMC case clearly shows who is corrupt, before blaming Azerbaijan for...

As i said the second group mirrors their incompetency and unawarness of the world will always blame others for with cheap rhetoric of ''expertise'', resulting more harms for the country and allies in the future.

Azerbaijan's military inventory tells a story for today and future; Ironically, Inspite of The military inventory of Turkey and along with recent issues with Chinese/Russian systems, the ''experts'' with Tank Barrel/Election Box vision still think it is solely about the quality of the metal that any country takes into account before committing a long term multi-cross benefit/harms strategy/alliance.

Because of those ''experts'', the current reputation of the country for today and future does even alienate a blood brother country, tragically they still blame everybody for(in this case Azerbaijan), but themselves.

There is more to tell, but apprently the minds of ''experts'' need some basic info of global world order, so place and condition not appropriate for now.

 

[XTQ1999]

Dude, It is not about being allowed or not. You should just use your knowledge and brain power to realize How great percentage Israeli systems consist of foreign subsystems instead of generating excuses to accuse Turkish industry with using same card in here.

Lets compare two ships, Sa'ar 72 and Milgem

here is the breakdown

Sa'ar 72 - Israeli radar, Israeli anti-ship missiles and air defense missiles and etc. only foreign thing is the engine.
Milgem - Thales radar, Italian main gun, US air defense missiles, US anti-ship missiles and etc.

just for one ship, Azerbaijan would need to rely on 4 countries, and you talk as if Turkish defense industry is superior.

Put Israeli downgraded Aliminum boats against superior Turkish proposals aside

downgraded? lol, those Coast Guard boats are equipped with Spike NLOS and ERs, and provide a much bigger capability to Coast Guard than your ships.

You selected Israeli corvette that Israel itself do not have infrastructure to produce neither naval subsystems, nor the ship itself

the corvettes are being built in the shipyard near Baku, what are you talking about

Turkish institutes cause of pointing out a specific example to create a perception as if Azerbaijan requested a 105mm turrent but Turkey couldn’t offer.

You need to improve your comprehension skills, you bragged about ToT to Indonesia, and I pointed out, what exactly do you transfer, if vast portion of components are foreign? and what is the purpose of ToT, if the country still has to nearly completely rely on foreign components to complete the finished product?

I do not even mention How great privileges Turkish institutes offered Azerbaijan many times including a state of art shipyard and land vehicles manufacturing facility.

yes, thanks for the great privilege, we managed to build our own state of the art shipyard, that produces biggest ships in the Caspian, and again, no one is stopping you from opening up your own production facilities in Azerbaijan, and you are about to lose basic trainer tender for the same reason.

The guys like you are the main reason while Aselsan TAKS are selected in Kazakstan against Elbit while eliminated in the hands of Azeri politicians.

Except Kazakhstan hasn't upgraded any tanks, and I told you Azerbaijan selected Aselsan over Rafael in Air Force tender, but you are still here crying about corrupt Azeri politicians,

Of course it can't be that Elbit provided a better product, How could Israelis possibly provide a better product? they only have few decades of tank production on their hands, and wait, didn't your own country give contract to Elbit to upgrade its own tanks?

The hypocrisy here of you accusing Azerbaijan of corruption, while your own country selected the same company just 5 years prior.

I will never waste the efforts of my proud country and people in the shake of a few corrupt, money lover guys in Azerbaijani procurement system.

Your country is giving US billions of dollars for F-35s, which have recently conducted economic warfare against your country and have cause massive collapse of your currency, your country also proceeded to spend 2.5 billion on Russian Air Defense systems, a year after you almost went to war with them.

Get off from your moral high ground, thinking Azerbaijan somehow makes bad decisions on procurement.

Anyway, I'm done arguing with you, and will get back to posting normally.

 

[cabatli_53]

Lets compare two ships, Sa'ar 72 and Milgem

here is the breakdown

Sa'ar 72 - Israeli radar, Israeli anti-ship missiles and air defense missiles and etc. only foreign thing is the engine.
Milgem - Thales radar, Italian main gun, US air defense missiles, US anti-ship missiles and etc.

just for one ship, Azerbaijan would need to rely on 4 countries, and you talk as if Turkish defense industry is superior.



downgraded? lol, those Coast Guard boats are equipped with Spike NLOS and ERs, and provide a much bigger capability to Coast Guard than your ships.



the corvettes are being built in the shipyard near Baku, what are you talking about



You need to improve your comprehension skills, you bragged about ToT to Indonesia, and I pointed out, what exactly do you transfer, if vast portion of components are foreign? and what is the purpose of ToT, if the country still has to nearly completely rely on foreign components to complete the finished product?



yes, thanks for the great privilege, we managed to build our own state of the art shipyard, that produces biggest ships in the Caspian, and again, no one is stopping you from opening up your own production facilities in Azerbaijan, and you are about to lose basic trainer tender for the same reason.



Except Kazakhstan hasn't upgraded any tanks, and I told you Azerbaijan selected Aselsan over Rafael in Air Force tender, but you are still here crying about corrupt Azeri politicians,

Of course it can't be that Elbit provided a better product, How could Israelis possibly provide a better product? they only have few decades of tank production on their hands, and wait, didn't your own country give contract to Elbit to upgrade its own tanks?

The hypocrisy here of you accusing Azerbaijan of corruption, while your own country selected the same company just 5 years prior.




Your country is giving US billions of dollars for F-35s, which have recently conducted economic warfare against your country and have cause massive collapse of your currency, your country also proceeded to spend 2.5 billion on Russian Air Defense systems, a year after you almost went to war with them.

Get off from your moral high ground, thinking Azerbaijan somehow makes bad decisions on procurement.

Anyway, I'm done arguing with you, and will get back to posting normally.

Ignorance, Biass, Corruption, Prejudice, Misinformation, False analyses and Justification. Intention is the main factor to do something usefull betwen states. If you don’t have a good intention and will, You just start generating excuses like seen here with false accusations. You proudly accept total dependency on Israel and Russia directly, tens of other countries indirectly. On the other hand, you are surprisingly talking about How Azerbaijan will be dependent on foreign sources, If You selected Turkish products. Searching Hypocrite without shame on yourself ?
You are such a delusional guy that You claim, Only foreign thing in Israeli corvette is engine to talk bad about Turkish equivalent consciously, Although you also know the painful reality about Israeli ship that is dependent on foreign sources on the fields of main gun, torpedo, sonars to electric motors, engine, engine control room, reduction gears, hydraulic systems, shafts, propellers, windlass, eco-sounders, bridge systems, Wecdis, digital map, generators, pumps...etc which make ships a ship. Neither Israel has an advanced automotive subsystem industry, nor a naval sub-industry to produce warships and armored vehicles with big self sufficiency. It must be noted that It is not logial to be self-sufficient in those fields for such a small country as well so They charged foreign shipyard (German TK) to make them produce their modified design based on German MEKO corvette and called it as "Saar72" whose base design is offered to Greeks by Germans as well but Is it not weird How you are defending them with blind eye against Turkish proposals, while accusing Turkey as incompetent regarding self sufficiency compared with Israel using German base design? Wanna see Hypocrite?

Let's face some facts. You will be dependent on at least 20 different country for those ships to weld the blocks in your state of art shipyard while pretending to “produce” them. Milgem radar is originally Thales product but has nothing to do with them in terms of performance since they are using Turkish components and modules which is most critical part of a radar and radar itself is totally produced in Turkey. A missile do not make a boat modern as well. You can integrate those missiles to any boat you can desire. Turkey make Sabra deal with Israel at least 18-19 years ago. Turkey is partner of F35 since 2001 and funding program worth 900 million $ until today and guaranteed to order at least 100 F35 from the beginning of this program. Turkey developed an advanced IFV from scratch and gave all production and development rights to Indonesian hands. That is a tech transfer deal that No other state can approach to deliver such a freedom for own state of art products. Same applied for Malaysia for wheeled armored vehicles, fast intervention boats and stabilized guns under total ToT deal. In this aspect, they are free to integrate whatever they want including engine and turret solutions to vehicles. Turkey established a land vehicles assembly facility under a JV along with optics, thermal and stabilized turret production JV facility in Kazakhstan. They selected Turkish turret for their wheeled armored vehicles. Nothing is impossible If you have a good will to do something. useful.

Those words will remain as an example of what I am actually trying to tell during all those discussion. It is also good for all readers to introduce who/whose men actually you are...

 

[xenon54 out]

Dude, It is not about being allowed or not. You should just use your knowledge and brain power to realize How great percentage Israeli systems consist of foreign subsystems instead of generating excuses to accuse Turkish industry with using same card in here. Even if you try to create a perception like It is about Turkey, It has nothing to do with Turkish industry. It is related with solely you and your decision. We do not discuss who has radars or missiles. Put Israeli downgraded outdated boats against superior Turkish proposals aside, You selected Israeli corvette that Israel itself do not have infrastructure to produce neither naval subsystems, nor the ship itself but defending here the needlessness of making tech transfer deals with Turkish institutes cause of pointing out a specific example to create a perception as if Azerbaijan requested a 105mm turrent but Turkey couldn’t offer. I do not even mention How great privileges Turkish institutes offered Azerbaijan many times including a state of art shipyard and land vehicles manufacturing facility. Such a biased mindset to cover up your corrupt mechanism actually explain well what is going on in your procurement system. You are a good example to introduce background image of your guys in charge. The guys like you are the main reason while Aselsan TAKS are selected in Kazakstan against Elbit while eliminated in the hands of Azeri politicians. It is no need to water down the subject with talking BS about Turkish systems. Firstly check your contradicting logic in a body mirror instead of continuously revealing excuses to downgrade Turkish systems. It is the reason you should keep your knowledge for yourself When It comes to talk about Turkish industry. I can list tens of tech transfer deal about specific technological areas with many countries. If any single mid-long term procurement program are not achieved between Azerbaijan and Turkey and having just tens of million $ in defense trade volume between two state, That is a shame for brotherhood but Try to find guilty in your minds, not good wills of Turkiye and Turkish people who always talk about brotherhood. I will never waste the efforts of my proud country and people in the shake of a few corrupt, money lover guys in Azerbaijani procurement system.

This on the other hand is true.
Yet still i see it as a failure from Turkish side that Israel can grab opportunities from our hands, in the end Israel must have been doing a better offer which is a shame from our side.

 

[Malpsoy]

Upgrade of Mi-17

https://twitter.com/x/status/1093474781440233473

https://twitter.com/x/status/1093427659114196993

 

[XTQ1999]

Upgrade of Mi-17

https://twitter.com/x/status/1093474781440233473

https://twitter.com/x/status/1093427659114196993

Intelligence Gathering and Electronic Warfare Helicopter designed to operate in areas with Special Forces activity.


-------

Special Forces during winter training in Turkey

 

[cabatli_53]

This on the other hand is true.
Yet still i see it as a failure from Turkish side that Israel can grab opportunities from our hands, in the end Israel must have been doing a better offer which is a shame from our side.

Yes bro. Israel gave such a better offer that Turkish institutes can never offer the same in anywhere around the World. The offers are mostly such a sweet that their obsolete boat, foreign corvette on drawing table, apc’s... and many other things can get the deal against brother Turkey’s superior JV/industrial partnership proposals in Azerbaijan but getting multiple lost other part of the Khazar. I will explain the situation with a real example achieved last year in Ukraine. Israel gave a “better” offer again in Ukraine tender and they were very close to got this deal against Aselsan. Later, An investigation has been carried out for this tender and As far as I know It is cancelled. It is realized that Aselsan had actually wiped Israeli Elbit out of the floor in field trials done by Ukrainian officials but contrary to field results, the some officials was favoring and selecting Elbit. In following period of investigation, It is realized that Ukrainian officials have been feeded with bribes to get the tender so Tender is given to real owner Aselsan. That is done in a regular country who have a common relationship with Turkiye. We are talking about a brother state in here and their non-brother people and their defenders in charge. That was just an example and Many other factors are available to describe the situation in Azerbaijan. If you read the comments of related member about Turkish systems above, You can see what I am talking about.

Here are test results of field trials to realize How Elbit hired Ukrianian officials to get the deal with bribe factor Although results point out superiority of Aselsan in all aspects.

 

[-------]

Yes bro. Israel gave better offer that Turkish institutes will never offer. The offers are mostly such a sweet that their obsolete boat, foreign corvette on drawing table, apc’s... and many other things can get the deal against brother Turkey’s superior JV/industrial partnership proposals in Azerbaijan but lost other part of the Khazar. I will explain the situation with a real example achieved last year in Ukraine. Israel gave a “better” offer in Ukraine tender and got a huge deal against Aselsan. Later, An investigation has been carried out for this tender and It is realized that Aselsan actually wiped Israeli Elbit out of the floor in field trials done by Ukrainian officials but contrary to field results, the tender was given to Elbit. In following period of investigation, It is realized that Ukrainian officials have been feeded with bribes worth million $ to get the tender so Tender is cancelled, Ukrainian officials jailed and Aselsan announced as winner. That is done in a regular country who have a common relationship with Turkiye. We are talking about a brother state in here and their non-brother people in charge. That was just an example and Many other factors are available to describe the situation in Azerbaijan. If you read the comments of related member about Turkish systems above, You can see what I am talking about.

Corruption. Corruption. Corruption.
It stinks of Corruption in Azerbaijan.

 

[Islamic faith&Secularism]

Azerbaijan's special existantial situation in the war with Armenia, or Hazar countires along with mullahs in south should take some lessons for the defence procurement in the long term, here it is...

With the ''Pro-active'' zero problem policies of Turkey; Cyprus issue, Agean and Med. Seas issues, PKK terror in Iraq and now Syria issue, Armenian peace process with Azerbaijani flag in the trash basket, USA preference of PKK terrorism instead of decades of ''strategic'' NATO partner, Plots against the Turk military and coup, Syrians in Turkey etc. have brought a massive reputation and power in worldwide that any country would like to have a long-term partner with in every fields for gaining more advantages in the world order and around.

That is why The rivals try to corrupt the costumer country in order to be chosen over Turkey.

Azerbaijan should consider the now and future hegemony of Turkey as seen in the very promising list mentioned shortly above before comitting it with weak Israel as seen in the ME and world order.

Morality can be cured, how about the brain?

 

[MMM-E]

Sa'ar 72 - Israeli radar, Israeli anti-ship missiles and air defense missiles and etc. only foreign thing is the engine.
Milgem - Thales radar, Italian main gun, US air defense missiles, US anti-ship missiles and etc.

just for one ship, Azerbaijan would need to rely on 4 countries, and you talk as if Turkish defense industry is superior.

"" only foreign thing is the engine "" are you sure ?

800 tons Sa'ar 72

Radar : 120 km ELM-2258 / Israel
air defense and anti-ship missiles , source codes , battle management system : Israel
76mm main gun : Italy
Torpedos : The US
Engine : Germany

and many more components from many countries




2400-3000 tons MILGEM Corvette/Frigate would be game changer against any Warship of Russia and Iran in the Caspian Sea

Radar : 250 km SMART-S MKII / Turkey ( under license production by Aselsan with domestic components and modules )
Sonar : TBT-01 Yakamoz / Turkey
Source codes , Battle management system : Turkey
Electronic Warfare System : ARES-2N / Turkey
Anti ship missile : ATMACA / Turkey
76mm main gun : Italy
Torpedos : mk-46 / The US or ORKA / Turkey
Torpedo counter measure System : Aselsan HIZIR / Turkey
Engine : Germany/The US
Air Defense Missiles : RAM - ESSM / The US ( Turkish HISAR and SIPER are on the way )


Turkey has better naval Industry than Israel and far better options for Azerbaijan and great military projects such as MILDEN class Submarine for future

and Your brother country TURKIYE is always with Azerbaijan
Iran threatened Azerbaijan in 2001 and Turkey sent 10 F-16 Fighter Jet to Baku to give message to Iran in 2001

Turkey develops hundreds of military projects not only for itself but also for brother countries

Brother countries should support each others to become more powerful and independent

so Azerbaijan should join to Turkish military projects instead of giving billions of dollars to Israel

of course its my opinion ,,, Our brothers are free and can do what they want , no offense

 

[xenon54 out]

Yes bro. Israel gave such a better offer that Turkish institutes will never offer the same in anywhere around the World. The offers are mostly such a sweet that their obsolete boat, foreign corvette on drawing table, apc’s... and many other things can get the deal against brother Turkey’s superior JV/industrial partnership proposals in Azerbaijan but getting multiple lost other part of the Khazar. I will explain the situation with a real example achieved last year in Ukraine. Israel gave a “better” offer again in Ukraine tender and got a huge deal against Aselsan. Later, An investigation has been carried out for this tender and It is realized that Aselsan had actually wiped Israeli Elbit out of the floor in field trials done by Ukrainian officials but contrary to field results, the tender was given to Elbit. In following period of investigation, It is realized that Ukrainian officials have been feeded with bribes worth million $ to get the tender so Tender is cancelled, Ukrainian officials jailed and Aselsan announced as winner. That is done in a regular country who have a common relationship with Turkiye. We are talking about a brother state in here and their non-brother people and their defenders in charge. That was just an example and Many other factors are available to describe the situation in Azerbaijan. If you read the comments of related member about Turkish systems above, You can see what I am talking about.

Yeah Azerbaijan also has many corrupt goverment officials like every other ex soviet state.
I think Turkey shouldnt just trust on brotherhood but be more offensive and bribe if it must be.