ATF-10 NLOS - Nasty shock for 'Cold Start'?

[Tipu7]

Imagine an extended range AGM-144R Hellfire II, with the ability to detect and destroy an enemy target i.e a tank from stand off range.

These missiles can be fed a database of enemy vehicles, it can identify them by their type i.e T-90 is not in use with PA. In other words it can discriminate between friend or foe. It also can be fired remotely.

The big difference between this and rockets is its precision, trajectory and having a high kill ratio.

You sure 70km? is it kind of BVR ATGM?
also is this system mountable on our Talha series of APC?

 

[rockstar08]

I like this System , more or less it seems like a Guide MRLS

 

[Azz Kikr]

when its going to deploy?

soon enough, its almost complete

 

[Tipu7]

soon enough, its almost complete

saw this pic long ago .......................
how soon will it take?
and how many India want to produce?

 

[kaku1]

saw this pic long ago .......................
how soon will it take?
and how many India want to produce?

200 in Army Aviation alone for Armored Brigade. Besides HAL Rudra.

 

[VelocuR]

China unveils its latest Armor killing Non Line of Sight (NLOS) system based on ZBD-04A, carrying 8 ATF-10 missiles.

The actual range of this new NLOS system is not yet known, however IMO if Pakistan can mount these turrets on M113 or Al-Zarrar chasis, it can prove to be a potent weapon against a potential armored thrust under India's proposed proactive war doctrine. It is able to engage multiple targets with high precision, high mobility gives it shoot and scoot capability, the missiles have top attack mode rendering heavily armored vehicles useless and the ability to engage them from a standoff range, day or night. Opinions?

Technical Details > China unveils new NLOS missile at 'Peace Mission' exercises - IHS Jane's 360

View attachment 216072

Amazing development, yes I believe we need to have multiple forces and different layers.

Let's discuss this with China, they will approve it without doubt.

Machine killer

 

[Zarvan]

Amazing development, yes I believe we need to have multiple forces and different layers.

Let's discuss this with China, they will approve it without doubt.

Machine killer

We should get this and equip both Army and Para Military

 

[alimobin memon]

China unveils its latest Armor killing Non Line of Sight (NLOS) system based on ZBD-04A, carrying 8 ATF-10 missiles.

The actual range of this new NLOS system is not yet known, however IMO if Pakistan can mount these turrets on M113 or Al-Zarrar chasis, it can prove to be a potent weapon against a potential armored thrust under India's proposed proactive war doctrine. It is able to engage multiple targets with high precision, high mobility gives it shoot and scoot capability, the missiles have top attack mode rendering heavily armored vehicles useless and the ability to engage them from a standoff range, day or night. Opinions?

Technical Details > China unveils new NLOS missile at 'Peace Mission' exercises - IHS Jane's 360

View attachment 216072

It's good weapon, however I have been working on a research paper about Pakistan's response and its effectiveness in case of cold war. The Pakistan military strategists have made up the mind to use nasr type tactical nukes. Its not that Pakistan has not enough conventional punch to defend its borders but the point is of strategic locations of the cities of Pakistan they are just right across the border as low as 20km, Col. Naeem's interview and the Armies on clearly concurness on use of nukes due to that is openly confirmed. so even a slight breach of the Pakistani border is utterly not sustainable. Pakistan that's why will directly use its nasr missiles in first hours of the cold start execution.

If you are going to reply with Azm-e-nau IV, well see my friend having a conventional strong army is not the only case sometimes its the 4th dimension that is the time why ? because indians will come with large chunks of strike corps of armoured brigades from very different positions of the border. Pakistan claims to have achieved even less time of reaction to attack from cold start but its a exercise not real war. Imagine if only from one side of border one of the strike corps is able to penetrate inside and reaches the nearby city ( sialkot just 20km) for mechanized forces this is piece of cake to reach their.

Air force is one of strong pillars of defense, Pakistan does not have enough high tech fighters to equally defends different parts of borders if India is coming to attack with Air land battle style strategy.

In the end no matter what there is always a part of strategy going wrong so there are high chances that pakistan border gets breached. why im mentioned breach again and again cause its what could change history. See form past we can concur that indians have seized large part of Pakistan in indo pak war.

So the interviews and journals and other sources I have gone through clearly mentioned by Pakistan military that Pakistan will have to use nukes because of less reaction time.

I have written all this to clearly state that, these conventional weapons to especially bring shock for Cold Start is point less since mind is made up to use tactical nukes.

 

[Basel]

We only buy whats dictated by our operational doctrine. This is however true that Pakistan has high level access to latest Chinese military gear and we can buy whatever we wish to.

True, but one correction, we can customize Chinese equipment as per our need, can even add 3rd party stuff in it too.

No need. Our HAT infantry battalions are already equipped with M901 ITV. They have dual TOW launcher and much lower profile.

but TOW is not NLOS and Fire n Forget system and Pakistan need some thing like Mizrak-U and HJ-10 to take on enemy armor in case of war.

 

[Indus Falcon]

It's good weapon, however I have been working on a research paper about Pakistan's response and its effectiveness in case of cold war. The Pakistan military strategists have made up the mind to use nasr type tactical nukes. Its not that Pakistan has not enough conventional punch to defend its borders but the point is of strategic locations of the cities of Pakistan they are just right across the border as low as 20km, Col. Naeem's interview and the Armies on clearly concurness on use of nukes due to that is openly confirmed. so even a slight breach of the Pakistani border is utterly not sustainable. Pakistan that's why will directly use its nasr missiles in first hours of the cold start execution.

If you are going to reply with Azm-e-nau IV, well see my friend having a conventional strong army is not the only case sometimes its the 4th dimension that is the time why ? because indians will come with large chunks of strike corps of armoured brigades from very different positions of the border. Pakistan claims to have achieved even less time of reaction to attack from cold start but its a exercise not real war. Imagine if only from one side of border one of the strike corps is able to penetrate inside and reaches the nearby city ( sialkot just 20km) for mechanized forces this is piece of cake to reach their.

Air force is one of strong pillars of defense, Pakistan does not have enough high tech fighters to equally defends different parts of borders if India is coming to attack with Air land battle style strategy.

In the end no matter what there is always a part of strategy going wrong so there are high chances that pakistan border gets breached. why im mentioned breach again and again cause its what could change history. See form past we can concur that indians have seized large part of Pakistan in indo pak war.

So the interviews and journals and other sources I have gone through clearly mentioned by Pakistan military that Pakistan will have to use nukes because of less reaction time.

I have written all this to clearly state that, these conventional weapons to especially bring shock for Cold Start is point less since mind is made up to use tactical nukes.

Kindly explain the following in detail:

1) The intelligence assets on the international Border - both human and electronic
2) The Pakistani ATGM program - Current Stockpile (domestic & imported), plus emergency production capacity.
3) The PA's defensive, offensive and strategic doctrine on cold start

Thanks!! looking forward to your answer.

 

[umer cheema]

1. Any agreement that you know about that gives Pakistanis unabated access to Chinese inventory ? How exactly are you sure about this ?

2. What Chinese equipments the Pakistanis are using presently ? I know about the two fighter jets. Also, I think I spotted some news about Chinese helicopters. But, I think there were only two of them..

that two helicopters were a gift to pakistan ! n pakistan is thinking to replace its old heli's by chinese thunderbolt

 

[alimobin memon]

Kindly explain the following in detail:

1) The intelligence assets on the international Border - both human and electronic
2) The Pakistani ATGM program - Current Stockpile (domestic & imported), plus emergency production capacity.
3) The PA's defensive, offensive and strategic doctrine on cold start

Thanks!! looking forward to your answer.

Sorry for 1st question don't have enough to share right now.
1. Intelligent assets I presume u mean Pakistanis early warning systems. Yes Pakistan has many intelligence systems for example C4ISR standard systems that is (Communication, Command, Control, Computers, Intelligence, Surveillance and Reconnaissance) these combined, Pakistan came up with some Different types that are;

a. Awacs of two types especially (ZDK and SAAB 2000) most of these are used to monitor the international activities of sea and borders.

b. Threat Matrix, This is a database that measures the threats imminent or inevitable using this the High Command has full control to monitor pakistan armed forces and civlian police activities during any threat that is issue for nationals security.

2. Pakistan has at least 7000 tow missiles and around 1000 launchers with at least 3000 being the later variants of tandem warhead. Pakistan also has one German missile which is said to not effective so was phased out in around 2001 to 2008. Baktar-e-shikan missile its IR guided if im not wrong there is speculation that Pakistan has came up with laser beam variant the quantity of this missile is not figured because its produced in Pakistan so its upto the requirements the ones that are used are replaced quickly. Yes Emergency production capacity is definitely I dont know.

3. As I mentioned before the armed forces strategy is simple to repel the cold start which is a doctrine that will achieve its objectives withing first 72 hours. so the time for Pakistan is short, so the question isn't if Pakistan's conventional war has all the punch that it can defeat india's advance mechanized corpses and its air force. The question is if it is capable enough to counter act such an attack that will happen and different parts of border at the time. Since the Cold Start has clearly stated that offensive forces will have at least 3 times ratio of the Pakistan defense ( This is rule for offensive since ancient times ) That means Pakistan corps will face at least 3 times larger enemy, Hence to counter such an attack and repel the Indian forces Pakistan has to decide either its able to repel them withing their goal time that is within 72 hours.

Well the military strategists think there is chance Pakistan can as stated in Azme-Nau IV but the probability is not much to rely on conventional forces. rather The Pakistan has approached the strategy from Cold war era by American forces who knew that Soviet is far more superior in quantity (if not quality lets presume) the Europe ( not superior in forces ) will easily fall from the attacks of Soviets. So the USA came with the new low yield missiles that were designed to defeat enemy forces strike groups in seconds so that Europe may not fall these low yield weapons are known as tactical nuclear bombs.

Remember this Tactical nuclear missiles even today are of same stockpile in USA as in cold war the nuclear missile reduction deal with Russia is for only strategic large missiles like ICBM. Because it plays an excellent role.
So Pakistan has came with same approach to counter Indian forces which has to be 3 times larger force in Cold Start.

hence the strategy to counter Cold start is not Pakistan's but USA's Cold start time era.

 

[MilSpec]

Good luck moving a NLOS Anti armor within 10km of an IBG

 

[Inception-06]

We need more like this new Chinese beast and along with Army give to Rangers also because tactical nukes are not a great option and as Rangers are our first line of Defence they should have these

I think, if I am not wrong Pakistsani Rangers a long the Indian -Border are quipped with Mortars 81 mm-120 mm and HJ-8 Bakthar Shikan, 106 mm recoilles gun, which are installed in Bunkers and on Jeeps, every Bunker and every position is equipped with a 12.7mm AA Gun and a MG-3, this is a very strong defensive line against Indian Army. ....I have seen this in old documentarys and pictures, so they are well prepared.

@Zarvan

Rangers Infantry weapons are also upgraded with scope etc. notice the body language of this Rangers ! And explain it to me !

 

[rockstarIN]

Good luck moving a NLOS Anti armor within 10km of an IBG

Within 10 km?

That will be deployed 70 k.m away and will fry IBGs..!!