Ask Israeli Defence Forces member totach7 anything

[totach7]

He did occupy Palestine after the 1947 war. There was no Palestine between 1947 and 1967 when Israel won the areas from Jordan.

Yes, "O Jerusalam" will be a good start for you. Also do some google.

Do no count on that , most members here don't want to know

its easy to be one sided and to blame the Jews , Zaionists bla bla bla

 

[Black Stone]

its easy to be one sided and to blame the Jews , Zaionists bla bla bla

That is very common here.

 

[A.Rahman]

That is very common here.

Not as common as because God told me to support them, no matter what kind of war crimes they carry out.

...that the Lord Jesus will come in person to introduce the millennial age, when Israel shall be restored to their own land, and the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord; and that this personal and premillennial advent is the blessed hope set before us in the Gospel for which we should be constantly looking." Luke 12:35-40; 17:26-30; 18:8 Acts 15:14-17; 2 Thess. 2:3-8; 2 Tim. 3:1-5; Titus 1:11-15).

 

[Vinod2070]

Do no count on that , most members here don't want to know

its easy to be one sided and to blame the Jews , Zaionists bla bla bla

I have also read the book "Exodus". I felt it exaggerated things a bit but was a good read in the history of the Jewish people and the long persecution they have suffered.

"O Jerusalem" on the other hand was more balanced. It provided a fair view of the Palestinian people and the other actors involved.

And I agree that people just want to blame the Jews to hide their own issues. I feel the Arab world is as much to blame for the plight of Palestinians if not more. They want them to suffer to score some brownie points. Kind of like trophy to be shown to make others guilty.

I have not seen a single Arab repent for what they did in India and other places! They victories were glorious but others' victories are conspiracy!

 

[devgupt]

Completely true.One of the reasons why the Palestine issue has become so complex is because there are so many players each with their own solution and own agenda. And there exists no feasible way to reconcile all of them.
Had there been less Arab involvement , the issue would have been solved in 1948 itself.

And the last sentence you wrote is perfectly true.its when the boot is on other foot that one starts complaining

 

[A.Rahman]

And I agree that people just want to blame the Jews to hide their own issues. I feel the Arab world is as much to blame for the plight of Palestinians if not more. They want them to suffer to score some brownie points. Kind of like trophy to be shown to make others guilty.

During Khalifah Jews and muslim lived together peacefully. They were allowed to pray and their rights were protected under Islamic state

Can Israel boast same today? can Muslim or christen can go to wailing wall in Jerusalem?

Hitler prosecuted jews, and the land was taken from Palestinians by British and given to Zionist. IDF troops moved in and killed natives of the land, and took over. What kind of Justice is this?

Germany should have given up lands, let me tell you that during that time not even US wanted them

The United States’ tight immigration policies were not lifted during the Holocaust, news of which began to reach the United States in 1941 and 1942 and it has been estimated that 190 000 - 200 000 Jews could have been saved during the Second World War had it not been for bureaucratic obstacles to immigration deliberately created by Breckinridge Long and others.

I have not seen a single Arab repent for what they did in India and other places! They victories were glorious but others' victories are conspiracy!

Ship going to Basra and carrying families of the Arab merchants, who had settled in Sri Lanka (formerly Ceylon) for trading, was ambushed by Sindhi pirates near the city of Debal (Karachi and the island of Manora were called Debal in those days). All the passengers were made prisoners, and the precious gifts sent by the Raja of Sri Lanka for the Caliph in Baghdad were also looted.

The captured prisoners somehow sent a message to Hajjaj for help. At that time, a very powerful and arrogant Brahmin raja, Dahir, who had succeeded his father, Chach (632-670), ruled Sindh. Hajjaj asked him to release the Arab families and return the gifts, but he refused. Infuriated, Hajjaj called his young nephew Mohammad bin Qasim, who by then had been appointed the ruler of Faris, and sent him to attack Sindh in 711, with 6,000 well-trained soldiers and sophisticated war equipment.

The people of Debal could not stand the onslaught of the powerful army of Mohammad bin Qasim and locked themselves in the city fort. After several days of siege and manoeuvring, the Arab army broke in and captured the fort. As soon as the city fell, the local administration and officials ran away, leaving the people at the mercy of the invaders. Qasim, however, treated the locals very well and as a result, they cooperated with him. They even acclaimed him as their liberator from Brahmin tyranny, under which they had been suffering for years.

 

[devgupt]

During Khalifah Jews and muslim lived together peacefully. They were allowed to pray and their rights were protected under Islamic state

Can Israel boast same today? can Muslim or christen can go to wailing wall in Jerusalem?

Well Israeli Arabs have normal citizenship rights. Totach7 has already made a post regarding it.
Yes Muslims and Christians can visit Wailing wall.The security is tight but they can.
Rocks of ages: a pilgrim's progress. - Free Online Library
Totach7 can shed more light on this

Hitler prosecuted jews, and the land was taken from Palestinians by British and given to Zionist. IDF troops moved in and killed natives of the land, and took over. What kind of Justice is this?

By the way the war was started by Arabs, rejecting the UN plan in 1948. Ben-Gurion had accepted the plan and content with what he had got. Moreover after the first phase of war there was a ceasefire.When the time came for an extension of ceasefire, arabs refused to extend the ceasefie. And in the second phase they lost.
The war was started by arabs.And when you start a war, you go into unchartered territory, and you have to accept the consequences.After losing you cant complain it was unfair especially when u had fired the first shot. Moreover the Arabs had massacred Jews too during the first war.ex-Kfar Etzion.

Ship going to Basra and carrying families of the Arab merchants, who had settled in Sri Lanka (formerly Ceylon) for trading, was ambushed by Sindhi pirates near the city of Debal (Karachi and the island of Manora were called Debal in those days). All the passengers were made prisoners, and the precious gifts sent by the Raja of Sri Lanka for the Caliph in Baghdad were also looted.

You yourself are saying Sindhi Pirates attacked it.
When did pirates came under the rule of an authority?
How was Dahir responsible for it?

If I go by the logic shown in this forum recently regarding some current events then applying the same logic one can say that Arabs should have sent a dossier for Dahir to investigate and wait for his reaction and take his response at face value

 

[roadrunner]

Hi totach7, Shalom,

Presumably you are genuinely an IDFserving or ex serviceperson.

My question is this on the present Gaza intrusion (don't know if it's been asked before on this thread).

Why does Israel blame rocket attacks by Hamas, when by the IDF's own admission, Hamas never fired a single rocket into Israel during the ceasefire up till November. That ceasefire was broken by Israel.

It seems like a poor excuse.

 

[Vinod2070]

During Khalifah Jews and muslim lived together peacefully. They were allowed to pray and their rights were protected under Islamic state

I am not contesting that. One theory about this is that it were mainly the Jews who made up these stories about the Islamic rule to shame the European Christians but it may well be true.

Can Israel boast same today? can Muslim or christen can go to wailing wall in Jerusalem?

Hitler prosecuted jews, and the land was taken from Palestinians by British and given to Zionist. IDF troops moved in and killed natives of the land, and took over. What kind of Justice is this?

Germany should have given up lands, let me tell you that during that time not even US wanted them

The United States’ tight immigration policies were not lifted during the Holocaust, news of which began to reach the United States in 1941 and 1942 and it has been estimated that 190 000 - 200 000 Jews could have been saved during the Second World War had it not been for bureaucratic obstacles to immigration deliberately created by Breckinridge Long and others.

I can't speak for Israel or the USA here. Someone from those countries should answer.

Ship going to Basra and carrying families of the Arab merchants, who had settled in Sri Lanka (formerly Ceylon) for trading, was ambushed by Sindhi pirates near the city of Debal (Karachi and the island of Manora were called Debal in those days). All the passengers were made prisoners, and the precious gifts sent by the Raja of Sri Lanka for the Caliph in Baghdad were also looted.

The captured prisoners somehow sent a message to Hajjaj for help. At that time, a very powerful and arrogant Brahmin raja, Dahir, who had succeeded his father, Chach (632-670), ruled Sindh. Hajjaj asked him to release the Arab families and return the gifts, but he refused. Infuriated, Hajjaj called his young nephew Mohammad bin Qasim, who by then had been appointed the ruler of Faris, and sent him to attack Sindh in 711, with 6,000 well-trained soldiers and sophisticated war equipment.

The people of Debal could not stand the onslaught of the powerful army of Mohammad bin Qasim and locked themselves in the city fort. After several days of siege and manoeuvring, the Arab army broke in and captured the fort. As soon as the city fell, the local administration and officials ran away, leaving the people at the mercy of the invaders. Qasim, however, treated the locals very well and as a result, they cooperated with him. They even acclaimed him as their liberator from Brahmin tyranny, under which they had been suffering for years.

This is all one sided convenient story. Tell me, 9/11 had 15 Saudis out of the 19. Should the USA have invaded and occupied Saudis for 700 years? Should it be done for the countries like Nigeria and the countries bordering the Malacca straits where the current crop of pirates are coming from?

Regarding the reasons for Bin Qasim's attacks, you are quoting me urban myths of Pakistan. See here a rebuttal by a Pakistani writer.

The myth of history


By Prof Shahida Kazi


History is a discipline that has never been taken seriously by anyone in Pakistan. As a result, the subject has been distorted in such a way that many a fabricated tale has become part of our collective consciousness

DOES mythology have anything to do with history? Is mythology synonymous with history? Or is history mythology?

Admittedly, the line between the two is a very fine one. From time immemorial, man has always been in search of his roots. He has also been trying to find a real and tangible basis for the legends of ancient days � legends that have become a part of our collective consciousness. As a result, we witness the quest for proving the existence of King Arthur, the search for whereabouts of the city of Troy, and many expeditions organized to locate the exact site of the landing of Noah�s Ark.

During the �60s and the �70s, there was a worldwide movement to prove that the �gods� of ancient mythologies did actually exist; they came from distant galaxies; and that mankind owed all its progress to such alien superheroes. Several books were written on the subject.

We, in Pakistan, are a breed apart. Lacking a proper mythology like most other races, we have created our own, populated by a whole pantheon of superheroes who have a wide range of heroic exploits to their credit.

But the difference is that these superheroes, instead of being a part of a remote and prehistoric period, belong very much to our own times. A seemingly veritable mythology has been created around these heroes, their persona and their achievements, which is drummed into the heads of our children from the time they start going to school. So deep is this indoctrination that any attempt to uncover the facts or reveal the truth is considered nothing less than blasphemous.


Here are some of the most common myths:

Myth 1
Our history begins from 712AD, when Mohammad bin Qasim arrived in the subcontinent and conquered the port of Debal.

Take any social studies or Pakistan studies book, it starts with Mohammad bin Qasim. What was there before his arrival? Yes, cruel and despotic Hindu kings like Raja Dahir and the oppressed and uncivilized populace anxiously waiting for a �liberator� to free them from the clutches of such cruel kings. And when the liberator came, he was welcomed with open arms and the grateful people converted to Islam en mass.

Did it really happen? This version of our history conveniently forgets that the area where our country is situated has had a long and glorious history of 6,000 years. Forget Moenjo Daro. We do not know enough about it. But recorded history tells us that before Mohammad Bin Qasim, this area, roughly encompassing Sindh, Punjab and some parts of the NWFP, was ruled by no less than 12 different dynasties from different parts of the world, including the Persians (during the Achamaenian period), the Greeks comprising the Bactrians, Scthians and Parthians, the Kushanas from China, and the Huns (of Attila fame) who also came from China, besides a number of Hindu dynasties including great rulers like Chandragupta Maurya and Asoka.

During the Gandhara period, this region had the distinction of being home to one of the biggest and most important universities of the world at our very own Taxila. We used to be highly civilized, well-educated, prosperous, creative and economically productive people, and many countries benefited a lot from us, intellectually as well as economically. This is something we better not forget. But do we tell this to our children? No. And so the myth continues from generation to generation.

Myth 2
Mohammad Bin Qasim came to India to help oppressed widows and orphan girls.

Because of our blissful ignorance of history, we don�t know, or don�t bother to know, that this period was the age of expansion of the Islamic empire. The Arabs had conquered a large portion of the world, comprising the entire Middle East, Persia, North Africa and Spain. Therefore, it defies logic that they would not seek to conquer India, the land of legendary treasures.

In fact, the Arabs had sent their first expedition to India during Hazrat Umar Farooq�s tenure. A subsequent expedition had come to Makran during Hazrat Usman�s rule. But they had been unsuccessful in making any in-roads into the region. Later on, following the refusal of the king to give compensation for the ships captured by pirates (which incidentally included eight ships full of treasures from Sri Lanka, and not just women and girls), two expeditions had already been sent to India, but they proved unsuccessful. It was the third expedition brought by Mohammad Bin Qasim which succeeded in capturing Sindh, from Mansura to Multan. However, because of the Arabs� internal dissension and political infighting, Sindh remained a neglected outpost of the Arab empire, and soon reverted to local kings.

The link contains many more myths. I have just brought out the part relevant here.

Also, in the Pakistan's history book thread it was mentioned that every good Sindhi knows that Qasim murdered thousands of innocents in several towns and sent thousands of Sindhi girls in Harems back home!

He was clearly no do-gooder as you would like to believe. The Arabs did not attack Sindh for any reasons other than plunder and loot as in other places then being attacked by Arabs in all directions.

 

[Jihad]

Isn't it true that Israel did not abide by the truce before that was between Hamas and Israel, by occasionally breaking the ceasefire or setting up raids into Palestinian territory?
How about the illegal settlements on Palestinian land? How do you justify that? Doesn't it sound a little logical that Hamas wants to "push Jews into the sea" because they're continuing to occupy even more land?
Hamas had asked Israel to follow the truce between both parties, after Israel didn't comment or listen, they fired their rockets, that is the truth, and in response to that, Israel was made the victim and blamed everything on Hamas, thus getting their excuse yet again to go in full force with the latest technology and gadgets and wreck havoc yet again on alot of innocent Palestinians, sure you got some Hamas militants, but you also destroyed alot of peoples future hopes and dreams.

But hey, why should you care?
Do you think that, after your time is done here, your children or grandchildren will continue to live in "peace"?
With this policy? With Israels military power bolstering and manhunt on Palestinians, do you honestly think Israel will be left alone for the coming centuries?

you live peacefully in Holland?

Do you think the Dutch would take firing rockets upon them?

an hour ago the Hammas shot 2 stupid rockets on Shederot....

for more then 2000 years our enemies vanished

Doesn't matter, answer my question if you can.
If you cannot, then it proves my fact that you Israelis are morally corrupt.

 

[notorious_eagle]

Welcome friend!

Well thanks for the offer but it would really piss me off if i am not allowed to enter Israel hahahaa. But my question is, if Israeli citizens(i know atleast 10 who are begging me to visit Israel) sponser me would i be able to get a tourist visa easily?

 

[zavis2003]

TOTACH if u r really jew then i have question
Q it is our (muslim) belief that a day will come when armies from KHARASAN would emerge and one would capture INDIA and second would eliminate JEWS in PALESTINES
as our prophet SAW confirmed that
what would u people do than at that time

as it no1 was there to change the Destiny

 

[zavis2003]

I have seen That tatoo like tatach defending his country in bad way.
BEN GORYAN the ist PM or President of Israel wrote a letter to th world zionist congress that
"If i would be a Arab i definatly oppose and have hostile feelings for Israelis and Jews. Though it is true we were here in Palestine 2000 years ago but today these arabs has nothing to do with it and it isnot there fault what happened to us 2000 years ago"

 

[totach7]

I have also read the book "Exodus". I felt it exaggerated things a bit but was a good read in the history of the Jewish people and the long persecution they have suffered.

"O Jerusalem" on the other hand was more balanced. It provided a fair view of the Palestinian people and the other actors involved.

And I agree that people just want to blame the Jews to hide their own issues. I feel the Arab world is as much to blame for the plight of Palestinians if not more. They want them to suffer to score some brownie points. Kind of like trophy to be shown to make others guilty.

I have not seen a single Arab repent for what they did in India and other places! They victories were glorious but others' victories are conspiracy!

I wish every member here to read o Jerusalem

 

[totach7]

Completely true.One of the reasons why the Palestine issue has become so complex is because there are so many players each with their own solution and own agenda. And there exists no feasible way to reconcile all of them.
Had there been less Arab involvement , the issue would have been solved in 1948 itself.

And the last sentence you wrote is perfectly true.its when the boot is on other foot that one starts complaining

The ALA arab liberation army with Faize kaowji as the force commander
promised the Palestinians to exile for short time till the victory


The Arab Liberation Army (Jaysh al-Inqadh al-Arabi) was an army of volunteers from Arab countries led by Fawzi al-Qawuqji. It fought on the Arab side in the 1948 Arab-Israeli war and was set up by the Arab League as a counter to the Arab High Committee's Holy War Army, though in fact the League and Arab governments prevented thousands from joining either force (

At the meeting in Damascus on 5 February 1948 to organize Palestinian Field Commands, Northern Palestine including Samaria was allocated to Qawuqji's forces, although Samaria was de facto already under the control of Transjordan

The target figure for recruitment was 10,000, but by mid-March 1948 the number of volunteers to have joined the Army reached around 6,000 and did not increase much beyond this figure. The actual number deployed might have been as low as 3,500, according to General Safwat. Its ranks included Syrians, Lebanese, including a few hundred Druze and Circassians, Iraqis, Transjordanians, Muslim Brothers from Egypt and Palestinians trained in Syria. There were also a few Yugoslavs, Germans, Turks and British deserters.
Contents


* 1 The disposition and control of forces
* 2 Syria's reasons for developing the ALA
* 3 The Unit of the Minorities
* 4 References

The disposition and control of forces

The Arab League Military Committee, with headquarters in Damascus, was responsible for the movements and servicing of the Army. The Committee consisted of General Ismail Safwat (Iraq, Commander-in-Chief), General Taha al-Hashimi (Iraq), Colonel Shuqayri (Lebanon), Colonel Muhammed al-Hindi (Syria) and Colonel Abd al-Qadir al-Jundi (Transjordan). All of the countries represented related to King Abdullah's long-held plans to re-form Greater Syria. This Greater Syria Plan (Mashru Suriya al-Kubra) had been supported by the British Empire throughout the thirties and forties (Aruri, 1972, p. 23).

Syria's reasons for developing the ALA

This section is taken from Joshua Landis, "Syria and the 1948 War in Palestine."

Syria’s reasons for building the Army of Liberation were several. Syria's President Shukri al-Quwwatli knew that the Syrian Army was undependable and useless as an instrument of war; therefore, it was much safer for Syria to influence the situation in Palestine by building up a force that was to be paid for and armed by all the Arab League countries. Egypt was to pay for 42% of the costs, Syria and Lebanon 23%, Saudi Arabia 20%, and Iraq the remaining 15%. Just as important as the financial reasons for building an Arab League force was the need to protect the Syrian army itself. By sending the volunteer army into battle, Quwwatli hope to spare Syria from exposing its own troops to defeat, which could leave the country exposed to attack from Abdullah and possibly Jewish forces. If the volunteer army were defeated, the loss and embarrassment would be borne by the Arab League in general and the Palestinians in particular, not by Syria alone.

Another advantage to an irregular army was that it could be sent into Palestine well before the British officially withdrew from their mandate on May 15, 1948. None of the Arab states were willing to declare war openly on the British. Thus, Syria would not officially be opening hostilities against the British troops, who still bore responsibility for security in Palestine. Furthermore, if the Arab countries failed to commit their armies to fight in Palestine — a possibility which seemed likely as Egypt agreed to participate only four days before the war began on May 15, 1948 — the Syrian government would still be active. It would retain leverage in Palestine and be able to tell the Syrian public that it had done more than the other Arab countries to help the Palestinians. Most importantly, however, the ALA was to be used as an instrument to nip Abdullah’s Greater Syria plan in the bud and to keep him from expanding his state over half of Palestine.

The evolution of President Quwwatli’s military objectives in Palestine is recorded in the diaries of Taha al-Hashimi. Hashimi was an Iraqi pan-Arab nationalist and long-time intimate of Quwwatli, whom the Syrian president wanted to head the Liberation Army rather than General Safwat, Egypt’s candidate. Hashimi was ultimately appointed Inspector General of the ALA and placed in charge of recruitment and training of the troops at the Qatana headquarters. His office was in the Syrian Ministry of Defense and he met daily with Syria’s political and military leaders. Hashimi records that in October 1947, shortly after the UN Special Committee on Palestine recommended partition as a solution and after Syria had failed to win either Saudi Arabia or Egypt over to the idea of an anti-Hashemite military alliance, Quwwatli explained:

The Greater Syria plan will start from the Arab part of Palestine. Because of this I have ordered the Syrian army to move to the Syrian-Palestinian border. The force which has taken up position there is 2,500 men. Also Lebanon will send 1000 men to its border. As soon as the forces of Iraq and Jordan enter Palestine, we will enter and take al-Nasira and the North.[fn]

Quwwatli’s strategy in Palestine was designed from the outset to prevent Abdullah’s possible advance north to Damascus. In the best case, Quwwatli hoped to acquire some of northern Palestine for Syria. A second reason for Quwwatli’s hesitation to commit Syrian military troops was that he had failed in his early efforts to reform the army and questioned the loyalty and effectiveness of its leadership. Although the head of the military, General Atfah, swore to the Minister of Defense in May 1947, that the Syrian army was “the best of all the Arab armies, the best army in the Middle East,” the brigade commanders scoffed at this ridiculous assessment and cabled the President to warn, that “the army is not worth a red cent.”[fn] Quwwatli was fully aware of the problems in his military. "The real problem is to reform the Syrian army and to solve the problem of its leadership," he confided to Taha al-Hashimi in September of 1947.

Until the army could be strengthened, he hoped to keep it out of the fighting. In its stead he built the Arab Liberation Army. "It is imperative that we restrict our efforts to the popular movement in Palestine,” Quwwatli concluded. “We must strengthen it and organize its affairs as quickly as possible.”[fn] Prime Minister Jamil Mardam Bey gave a lengthier explanation for why the Syrian army could not be sent into Palestine in November 1947, and why a volunteer army was needed.

Because [the Arab governments are undependable], I have decided... on the necessity of strengthening Palestine with arms and men and organizing their affairs and appointing a leader to take charge of their matters. The popular movement in Palestine is responsible for saving the situation, with the help of the Arab governments. This is because I doubt in the unity of the Arab armies and their ability to fight together.... If the Arab armies, not least of all the Syrian army, are hit with an overwhelming surprise attack by the Jewish Haganah, it would lead to such a loss of reputation that the Arab governments would never be able to recover. The best thing is to leave the work to the Palestinians and to supply them with the help of the Arab governments. Ensuring an effective leadership in Palestine is of paramount importance and needs to be done with the greatest of haste. If the movement is destined to failure, God forbid, then it will be the people of Palestine who fail and not the Arab governments and their armies. So long as the position of the Kings and Amirs is one of caution and plots, this is the only sound policy.

As Mardam makes clear, he knew the Syrian army could not withstand an attack by the Haganah; he knew his Arab allies were undependable; and he did not want to risk the “loss of reputation” that would inevitably ensue. That is why he and Quwwatli were determined to limit their own involvement in Palestine to the ALA.

When Hashimi spoke to the President a few days later about Mardam's plan, President Quwwatli reiterated Mardam's concern that the government could not withstand the Syrian army's defeat in Palestine. As he had explained to Hashimi before, "the real problem is with reforming the Syrian army and solving the problem of its leadership."[59] Because of these concerns, he said, "it is imperative that we restrict our efforts to the popular movement in Palestine. We must strengthen it and organize its affairs as quickly as possible. The trouble is that the Mufti [Hajj Amin al-Husayni] will not permit Fawzi al-Qawuqji to take the leadership in Palestine."
The next several weeks of intense negotiations between Quwwatli, the Mufti, Qawuqji and other Arab leaders over the question of who would direct the popular resistance in Palestine were a complete failure; agreement was impossible. The Mufti refused to hand control over to Qawuqji. He claimed that Qawuqji would "sell" himself to the English, and added that, "if Qawuqji accepted partition, will kill him with [my] own hands."[fn] The Mufti insisted that Palestine did not need the volunteer army and that all money should be given directly to him.[fn] King Abdullah, in an effort to dismiss the Mufti, claimed he could save Palestine on his own. "Why don't the Arab countries send their armies directly to [me]?" he inquired. Meanwhile Abdullah was arming his own supporters in Palestine who rejected both the Mufti and Qawuqji.[fn] As for King Faruq of Egypt, he wanted nothing to do with any of them. He said, "The Arabs ought to get rid of all three of them: the Mufti, Abdullah, and Qawuqji."[fn] The question of who would take command of the Arab and Palestinian military campaign and what their objectives would be was never resolved.




IDF ARMOR