Army Chief Orders Probe Into Internet Execution Video

[Argus Panoptes]

the regular execution of shia passengers en route Gilgit Baltistan & parachiner , the murder of foreign mountaineers etc have been done by terrorists in army & paramilitary uniforms.

during Sawat operation a footage of shooting the young boys came up allegedly by armymen which looks very convincing, comprehensive, clinical (like Nazi Germans) and cold which is hard to dispel. although I must say that the killers were lousy shots and were hitting the ground instead of the supposed victims at 15 yards.


regarding inquiry and conclusion? well nothing will come out. the only possibility is that our Chief Justice will take somoto action and put Kyani behind bars
edit: the video i am referring to is in included in the post above. one loose link is the recorded sound og "agony" I doubt anyone will cry like that (as if someone has snatched an icy lolly from him) after being shot at point blank with 7.62 round

The chances of that possibility even being contemplated by the CJ is absolutely ZERO.

I don't give two rats to what India does.

And I fully support this sort of killing of Taliban.

Have a fight, if you capture any of these A-holes, line 'em up and shoot them. Kaam khatam.

You can keep living in you perfect and just world.

If only it were that easy. The killing of captured combatants in this fashion will not "kaam khatam". It will create more resentment, and more adverse consequences for the State.

 

[Bratva]

@nuclearpak not a single hanging took place because President asif ali zardari ordered to stop implementing capital punishment and not a single hang till death has taken place since 4-5 years. That's why Adnan rashid who was to be hanged in 2009-10 were still languishing in jail until he broke out.

 

[Last Hope]

But Sir, the basic questions remains: on what grounds does our Army summarily execute such combatants? You seem to be saying that because our courts do not do their jobs, that somehow justifies cold blooded murder of our own citizens, by the hundreds (not just these six), because they dare fight against our Army.

On the grounds that they have been using violence against our people, they have been blowing up places of worship, and public places, they've been terrorizing people in the region and they've been abducting kids to train them to be suicide bombers. They are all captured while combat, what proof do you need other than a person aiming his barrel towards you and spraying bullets at you? Please do not confuse them to be citizens. They aren't.

Even now, there is nothing stopping our Army from presenting these captured combatants before a military court and then ordering summary executions after due process that is recorded.

Actually there is. The fact that the CIA commanders will be given bail and allowed to go back and fight the army, much more feriously with more knowledge of army operations and protocols. [CIA = Captured In Action].

If we are so blithely accepting of this illegal and horrific practice, then I can assure you that grave consequences are not too far off.

If we do not adhere to temporary solutions, I can assure you even worse consequences.

What the Indian Army does with their citizens and country is none of my concern. Let the Indians worry about that one, Sir.

You brought that one up, but we can leave it outside this picture.

 

[Jango]

@nuclearpak not a single hanging took place because President asif ali zardari ordered to stop implementing capital punishment and not a single hang till death has taken place since 4-5 years. That's why Adnan rashid who was to be hanged in 2009-10 were still languishing in jail until he broke out.

Yes...

Couple this with the far instilled in the judges, and you have a pathetic situation.

I don't know how these pseudo Human Rights activists oppose the hanging of a Taliban.

 

[Last Hope]

@nuclearpak not a single hanging took place because President asif ali zardari ordered to stop implementing capital punishment and not a single hang till death has taken place since 4-5 years. That's why Adnan rashid who was to be hanged in 2009-10 were still languishing in jail until he broke out.

You're mistaken, only one death penalty was carried out. He was a court-martialed NCO who was alleged with murdering his senior JCO.

 

[Jango]

If only it were that easy. The killing of captured combatants in this fashion will not "kaam khatam". It will create more resentment, and more adverse consequences for the State.

Ok thank you. Let's live in your just and fair world...where we have to drag a guy caught while shooting bullets at you to a court 80 km away, wait for 2 months, and in the end hear the judge say 'where's the evidence that he was fighting the state?'.

 

[indiatester]

Comparing apples and oranges. Totally different scenarios and circumstances.

Care to explain? As I understand it, the video in Indian case was during an operation where the bearded man was fighting in that operation and still posed a risk.
In this case, the Pakistani army shot its unarmed prisoners.

 

[Argus Panoptes]

On the grounds that they have been using violence against our people, they have been blowing up places of worship, and public places, they've been terrorizing people in the region and they've been abducting kids to train them to be suicide bombers. They are all captured while combat, what proof do you need other than a person aiming his barrel towards you and spraying bullets at you? Please do not confuse them to be citizens. They aren't.


Actually there is. The fact that the CIA commanders will be given bail and allowed to go back and fight the army, much more feriously with more knowledge of army operations and protocols. [CIA = Captured In Action].


If we do not adhere to temporary solutions, I can assure you even worse consequences.


You brought that one up, but we can leave it outside this picture.

Ok thank you. Let's live in your just and fair world...where we have to drag a guy caught while shooting bullets at you to a court 80 km away, wait for 2 months, and in the end hear the judge say 'where's the evidence that he was fighting the state?'.

Sirs, have you considered the possibility that combatants can be presented before a military tribunal in the field?

Imagine this: those who were captured are taken to the battalion HQ, where a Colonel plus two other officers sit and the evidence from the battlefield is presented and recorded, and a harsh sentence is passed and carried out.

That is the smart way to do this. If international media or watchers raise any hue and cry, compare this process to the military tribunals in Guantanamo.

I hope you can see my point.

 

[Jango]

Care to explain? As I understand it, the video in Indian case was during an operation where the bearded man was fighting in that operation and still posed a risk.

Yup. The man under a ton of concrete posed a risk!

Sirs, have you considered the possibility that combatants can be presented before a military tribunal in the field?

Imagine this: those who were captured are taken to the battalion HQ, where a Colonel plus two other officers sit and the evidence from the battlefield is presented and recorded, and a harsh sentence is passed and carried out.

That is the smart way to do this. If international media or watchers raise any hue and cry, compare this process to the military tribunals in Guantanamo.

I hope you can see my point.

Same thing here.

Instead of taking these sc*ms to the Battalion HQ or somewhere, the person in command of the operating platoon or company gives the go ahead for this punishment. You don't think that a JCO has enough courage to do something like this and let a video be made? This was definitely done under the supervision of an officer with authority.

Guantanamo bay is different, the people there aren't captured while fighting. These 6 Taliban were caught fighting the PA in the field.

Gitmo prisoners are taken from different places, some might be captured while fighting, some are not.

 

[indiatester]

Yup. The man under a ton of concrete posed a risk!

You sure that there was no booby trap?
Anyway wrong thread to discuss that.

 

[Argus Panoptes]

Yup. The man under a ton of concrete posed a risk!



Same thing here.

Instead of taking these sc*ms to the Battalion HQ or somewhere, the person in command of the operating platoon or company gives the go ahead for this punishment. You don't think that a JCO has enough courage to do something like this and let a video be made? This was definitely done under the supervision of an officer with authority.

It is not a matter of courage. It is matter of creating a due process that survives legal scrutiny Sir. If you care about the rule of law, that is, Sir, but that is only an assumption on my part.

 

[Jango]

It is not a matter of courage. It is matter of creating a due process that survives legal scrutiny Sir. If you care about the rule of law, that is, Sir, but that is only an assumption on my part.

By courage I meant authority. I couldn't find a suitable word to fit in there. A JCO wouldn't be having the authority to authorize this execution.

You can keep on doing your due process in your fairyland, with all the wonderful courts and wonderful evidences, maybe you can also carry 4 people along with you in the field to act as witnesses when the court asks.

But in the battle zones of Waziristan, that doesn't catch.

 

[Argus Panoptes]

By courage I meant authority. I couldn't find a suitable word to fit in there. A JCO wouldn't be having the authority to authorize this execution.

You can keep on doing your due process in your fairyland, with all the wonderful courts and wonderful evidences, maybe you can also carry 4 people along with you in the field to act as witnesses when the court asks.

But in the battle zones of Waziristan, that doesn't catch.

All I will say is please keep in mind that such summary executions in the battlefield will come back to haunt us as war crimes if we do not follow due process.

 

[Argus Panoptes]

Yup. The man under a ton of concrete posed a risk!



Same thing here.

Instead of taking these sc*ms to the Battalion HQ or somewhere, the person in command of the operating platoon or company gives the go ahead for this punishment. You don't think that a JCO has enough courage to do something like this and let a video be made? This was definitely done under the supervision of an officer with authority.

Guantanamo bay is different, the people there aren't captured while fighting. These 6 Taliban were caught fighting the PA in the field.

Gitmo prisoners are taken from different places, some might be captured while fighting, some are not.

IF this was done with proper authority Sir, then why did we first claim the video was a fake, then admitted later it was true, and then Gen Kayani ordered an inquiry?

Why wasn't our COAS able to say, yes, the executions occurred with proper authority? Because it was not!

Jhoot key paoon nahi hotay.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

As I posted above Sir, that execution video was admitted as being true by our Army. What does it say about where we are headed? How is this any different than what our Army did in East Pakistan towards the end?

our army didnt admit it. I have seen who "admitted" it it was Gen Talat Massod a retired General turned analyst who saw the video and noted that it seemed genuine and he made some observations though. I had also analysed this video in very comprehensive detail few years back. but to me it fell on its face due to last bits where the guy was giving them instructions on how to fall and those fake sounds as if someone is slapped or his favourite toy is snatched. no one sounds like that after being shot at close range by a battle rifle many times.

but if those screams were true and video was being shot with approval (it wasnt concealed) then my take is that those firing squad personnel should be court martialed for being lousy shots. if those boys were talib captives then my sympathy for them is as much as the pests in the crops

I am sorry but there is no time to be sentimental to those who come smiling and shouting allah o Akbar and behead our soldiers.
thank goodness I am no longer in the army , if I was I would have done things that would have made great shock videos oh yea I could have been dead as well