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Army Chief Orders Probe Into Internet Execution Video

That elected thing doesn't work here. Both are public figures...both try to be diplomatic.

And this is in no way comparable to East Pakistan.

If the proper thing "doesn't work here" then that explains perfectly why we are in the hellhole that we are in of our own creation. And you are only trying to justify that. What a pity.

What was happening in East Pakistan in the late 60s has an uncanny resemblance to what is happening now. Give it a couple more years and then you will see what I mean.

Aggey tuhaadi marzi Sirjee.
 
If the proper thing "doesn't work here" then that explains perfectly why we are in the hellhole that we are in of our own creation. And you are only trying to justify that. What a pity.

What was happening in East Pakistan in the late 60s has an uncanny resemblance to what is happening now. Give it a couple more years and then you will see what I mean.

Aggey tuhaadi marzi Sirjee.

Nhn yar tuhaddy marzi chaldi aye.

Chalo Kayani nu koray marnay aan, ki khayal aye?
 
kayani should also answer for the secret torture cells run by agencies in FATA and KPK.
Chambers of horror: Govt lifts lid on secret K-P internment centres – The Express Tribune

And nowhere it says that they were run by Agencies or the Military - i would like ET to mention them in news. And please try to look at the context, Army demanded KP & Federal govt to take charge, but it was the incompetency of the govt to do so. If I recall correctly, it has been discussed here too
 
Nhn yar tuhaddy marzi chaldi aye.

Chalo Kayani nu koray marnay aan, ki khayal aye?

No Sir, Gen Kayani does not need to be lashed, merely asked to uphold the dignity of his office and the honor of his uniform.

He ordered an inquiry into the conduct of men under his command. All we need is the outcome of that inquiry and his decision.
 
Yes, seriously. We need to explain what we are doing, no matter what the other side does. Seriously.

If they were terrorist, please tell us their names and the evidence that indicates they were terrorists. Then please tell us the court of law (civil, or military) that declared them guilty and sentenced them to death. Only then is the killing following due process. Otherwise, that Major is worse than the ones he executed, and Gen Kayani is no better than that because he is ultimately responsible for what those under his command are doing.

The reason this is important is that if we do not follow due process, we lose credibility. Losing credibility means our own people do not trust the Armed Forces. That wedge is what enemies want and will capitalize on. We will all pay the price.

Well, look at our country. We all are already paying that price. Our own citizens in large areas of the two western provinces regard the Army as an occupying forces due to extrajudicial killings like this, and are forming militias which are being helped by foreign agencies. When has this happened before in our history, and what was the outcome Sir?

Yes, I am dead serious.



Okay Sir. Then why did Gen Kayani order an inquiry and where is the result? Let him say what you just said. Why does not say that? Because it is wrong.
Sir, you are right in every aspect of what you just said, there has to be an accountability, but I am saying is there are many other places which needs accountability too, why do we like to beat the old Establishment and its atrocities drum again & again?

In an active battlefield - before shooting a terrorists do you want Army to ask terrorist to hold fire and callout the Judges so they could hold them for a trail? oh good that you pointed out to the courts - well this is an all together different story. Because you will find it amusing that this terrorists get to hire the top Defense lawyers , those who are well reputed, and will make them walk out of the court free. The judges are under threat so they can't give a verdict, so are they going to say Mr taliban you are found guilty. and to top it all we have pathetic prosecution, and the incompetent lads who will contaminate the SOC first and than collect the evidence.
And who is going to be a witness for a terrorist caught in the battlefield. It is not US where a fellow solider will be a witness.

Whatever you said in the last para is true and we should do that - but we are looking at the wrong end of the tunnel
 
Sir, you are right in every aspect of what you just said, there has to be an accountability, but I am saying is there are many other places which needs accountability too, why do we like to beat the old Establishment and its atrocities drum again & again?

In an active battlefield - before shooting a terrorists do you want Army to ask terrorist to hold fire and callout the Judges so they could hold them for a trail? oh good that you pointed out to the courts - well this is an all together different story. Because you will find it amusing that this terrorists get to hire the top Defense lawyers , those who are well reputed, and will make them walk out of the court free. The judges are under threat so they can't give a verdict, so are they going to say Mr taliban you are found guilty. and to top it all we have pathetic prosecution, and the incompetent lads who will contaminate the SOC first and than collect the evidence.
And who is going to be a witness for a terrorist caught in the battlefield. It is not US where a fellow solider will be a witness.

Whatever you said in the last para is true and we should do that - but we are looking at the wrong end of the tunnel

Sir, I ask for accountabilty across the board where it is needed, regardless of whether it is the Fauj, Politican of any stripe, or Judiciary, or anyone else for that matter.

Gen Kayani needs to answer for the extrajudicial murders being carried under his command. Zardari needs to account for his corruption cases. Nawaz Sharif needs to answer for his corruption cases and must also deliver on his promises that got him elected. Imran Khan needs to account for his policies asking for negotiations with the Taliban. The Supreme Court has to answer for its selective activism.

There is much to answer for by all sides. In this thread, Gen Kayani and his inquiry is the topic.

If you haven't my earlier posts, please do so again:

Sirs, have you considered the possibility that combatants can be presented before a military tribunal in the field?

Imagine this: those who were captured are taken to the battalion HQ, where a Colonel plus two other officers sit and the evidence from the battlefield is presented and recorded, and a harsh sentence is passed and carried out.

That is the smart way to do this. If international media or watchers raise any hue and cry, compare this process to the military tribunals in Guantanamo.

I hope you can see my point.

and:

Sir, Gen Kayani admitted the authenticity of the video to the US ambassador.

Besides, it is not sentimentality that I care about. I agree with you that the Taliban deserve all that we can mete out to them, and then some, but with the proper process.

Maro, zaroor maaro, magar saheeh tareekay sey.

That is all.

So if there are no survivors in an active battle field, all is well, good. Kill them all. But once they have been apprehended or have surrendered, the uniform and what it stands for imposes a required conduct befitting it. Then due process must be followed. Killing these subhumans in cold blood like that sullies the uniform needlessly.

As I said above, stand them in a line and have a Colonel plus two other officers sit in front of them, read out the charges, read out the evidence, and pass a death sentence. Then shoot them right there and then. Type up a report and send it to GHQ. Release it to the press. Done.

Like I said, maro, zaroor maaro, magar saheeh tareekay sey.

Why am I making this point again? Because those bastards have nothing to lose. But we have much to lose if we let ourselves fall to the same level of barbarism and lawlessness.
 
So if there are no survivors in an active battle field, all is well, good. Kill them all. But once they have been apprehended or have surrendered, the uniform and what it stands for imposes a required conduct befitting it. Then due process must be followed. Killing these subhumans in cold blood like that sullies the uniform needlessly.

As I said above, stand them in a line and have a Colonel plus two other officers sit in front of them, read out the charges, read out the evidence, and pass a death sentence. Then shoot them right there and then. Type up a report and send it to GHQ. Release it to the press. Done.

Like I said, maro, zaroor maaro, magar saheeh tareekay sey.

Why am I making this point again? Because those bastards have nothing to lose. But we have much to lose if we let ourselves fall to the same level of barbarism and lawlessness.
I guess we are on the same page here sir- i want every department to be held accountable too for their wrong doings.
That above is an interesting suggestion, but yet I would like to know legality of this if A Colonel ranked officer is allowed to pass a judgement for death sentence, is this not the case that those guys needs to be tried under Civil courts not Military Court? is that not the reason that detention cells in KPK are filled up and no one likes to take up the cases?
 
I guess we are on the same page here sir- i want every department to be held accountable too for their wrong doings.
That above is an interesting suggestion, but yet I would like to know legality of this if A Colonel ranked officer is allowed to pass a judgement for death sentence, is this not the case that those guys needs to be tried under Civil courts not Military Court? is that not the reason that detention cells in KPK are filled up and no one likes to take up the cases?


Sirjee, non-uniformed combatants caught on a battlefield? They can put on trial before a military field court and sentenced to die for war against our Army. With due process of course.
 
Never knew that, so does it matter whether the word comes from Major or Lt. Col, as we can see Major in the video, which am sure must have consulted his superiors who might have given the verdict for death sentence, so whats left then?
Sirjee, non-uniformed combatants caught on a battlefield? They can put on trial before a military field court and sentenced to die for war against our Army. With due process of course.
 
Never knew that, so does it matter whether the word comes from Major or Lt. Col, as we can see Major in the video, which am sure must have consulted his superiors who might have given the verdict for death sentence, so whats left then?

Sirjee, as long as there is a properly constituted court, and the written directives are on record, it is all good. Samajh aaye? The inquiry that Gen Kayani announced should present that record. Done.
 
Talib supporters such as Pak One and others have one very strong and powerful tool at their disposal, it's the confusion of some Pakistanis -- These confused Pakistanis, for whatever reason, will increasingly find that the struggle is changing and changing in such a way as to make them irrelevant. Huh?

See, regardless of the rhetoric of this govt, it is increasingly clear that very powerful elements are determined that Pakistan "negotiate" with Talib and therefore AQ -- now an even more disparate and power combination of forces with the govt and outside it, are determined that this effort will not bear fruit.

As much as you may despise hearing it, you will find that events will force you into a "with us or against us" paradigm and mindset -- Pakistan have long tried to prevent a civil war, but maybe it's just not possible -- Alarmist you say? I hope so, but be the pessimist in this particular case and be prepared -- as you will see you cannot escape events and you cannot escape the "With us or against us", especially since you will find yourself confronted with it. .
 
The inquiry has been completed and is on the COAS desk, but "more deliberations are required"?

Army says more time needed to complete two-year-old probe - thenews.com.pk

Army says more time needed to complete two-year-old probe


Mariana Baabar
Thursday, July 25, 2013

ISLAMABAD: Pakistan Army says more time is needed to complete an enquiry that began two years ago to determine whether army soldiers carried out the cold-blooded murder of unarmed civilians three years ago.

DG ISPR, General Asim Bajwa, when approached by The News responded: “According to my information, work on the report is still going on and has not concluded”.

When asked how it was possible that even after two years the board had not come to a conclusion, Bajwa responded, “Yes, it has been two years but frankly speaking more deliberations are required”.

On October 8, 2013, it will be three years since army chief Gen Kayani ordered a high-level inquiry, headed by a two-star general to determine the true identity of the uniformed personnel and the veracity of the video footage, showing the execution. The video, which had gone viral on social media, shows the cold-blooded execution of a group of bound and blindfolded detainees allegedly being shot to death by Pakistani soldiers.

Despite a public commitment from General Headquarters that the report will be made public, there has been a stony silence from the General Headquarters on the fate of the inquiry, which has been completed and has reached the COAS.

On October 8, 2010, Kayani had set up a board of inquiry to establish the true identity of the uniformed personnel and veracity of the video footage. The board was to be headed by a major general, a two-star officer of Pakistan Army. He was to be assisted by two/three senior officers with experience of investigating such incidents.

The News understands that the inquiry had been completed but Gen Kayani was reluctant to make it public, as he had promised. However, ISPR DG Gen Bajwa disagreed: “The report has not been presented to the chief, as the review is still taking place”.

It is quite possible that the report might never see the light of the day. Too many events have overtaken it including one involving soldiers during the Army operations in Swat and South Waziristan.

The footage of the incident is grainy and shows no time stamps, and the army inquiry’s mission had to determine whether those shown in uniform were actually soldiers. At the time there was appreciation for General Kayani, who said in a statement: “It is not expected of a professional army to engage in excesses against the people whom it is trying to guard against the scourge of terrorism,” though he cautioned that militants had in the past posed as soldiers. Many had lauded the decision of General Kayani who, when on October 8, 2010, had set up a board of inquiry and then promised to make the findings of the report public.
 
Apparently, USA agreed to look "the other way" over extra-judicial killings by our Army:

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US prevented disclosure of Pakistan?s rights abuses: report - DAWN.COM

US prevented disclosure of Pakistan’s rights abuses: report
AFP and DAWN.COM
2013-09-03 12:54:06

US intelligence reports said senior Pakistani military and intelligence officials knew of and possibly ordered a broad campaign of extrajudicial killings of militants and other adversaries, The Washington Post reported on Tuesday, adding that public disclosure of such information could have forced the Obama administration to sever aid to the Pakistani armed forces on account of a US law that prohibits military assistance to human rights abusers.

These reports are based on communications intercepts from 2010 to 2012 and other intelligence in classified documents provided to it by former National Security Agency contractor Edward Snowden.

The documents indicate that administration officials decided not to press the issue so as to preserve its relationship with Pakistan which was already frayed at the time.

The Post moreover reported that US spy agencies had also shifted their attention to what they classified as dangers surfacing outside Pakistani areas patrolled by CIA drones.

It reported that the US had intensified surveillance of Pakistan's nuclear weapons, has been concerned about biological and chemical arms sites there and has been trying to evaluate the loyalty of Pakistani counter-terrorism agents recruited by the CIA.

The paper was quoting from a 178-page summary of what it called the US intelligence community's “black budget” provided to it by Snowden.

“If the Americans are expanding their surveillance capabilities, it can only mean one thing,” said Husain Haqqani, who served as Pakistan's ambassador to the US from 2008 to 2011. “The mistrust now exceeds the trust.”

America has delivered nearly $26 billion in aid to Pakistan over the past 12 years, with the money aimed at stabilising the country and ensuring its cooperation in counterterrorism efforts, the paper said.

However, as classified documents reveal new allegations of human rights abuses by the Pakistan army, a spokeswoman for the National Security Council seems to have played it down in the Post report saying the United States would “continue to work closely with Pakistan's professional and dedicated security forces” in order to combat the challenging security issues in Pakistan.

Spokeswoman Caitlin Hayden in a statement said the US is “committed to a long-term partnership with Pakistan, and we remain fully engaged in building a relationship that is based on mutual interests and mutual respect”.

“We have an ongoing strategic dialogue that addresses in a realistic fashion many of the key issues between us, from border management to counterterrorism, from nuclear security to promoting trade and investment,” Hayden said. “The United States and Pakistan share a strategic interest in combating the challenging security issues in Pakistan, and we continue to work closely with Pakistan's professional and dedicated security forces to do so.”
 
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