Altay & Turkish Main Battle Tank Programs

[ziya]

 

[Jackal131]

Kinda ironic how we can create sloped armor on upgrades but have yet to see it fully implemented on the Altay tank lol. I know we have AKKOR to compensate for that but why take the chance.

I have pointed out this fact many times here - armor sloping is not a variable of effectiveness in ceramic composite armor.

Modern ceramic composites are in fact far more effective at stopping penetration when hit straight on as the layers can fully enact their dissipation and sheering properties.

Sloping the armor in a new generation tank with modern ceramic composites is a waste of size, space and weight in the vehicle.

 

[BordoEnes]

I have pointed out this fact many times here - armor sloping is not a variable of effectiveness in ceramic composite armor.

Modern ceramic composites are in fact far more effective at stopping penetration when hit straight on as the layers can fully enact their dissipation and sheering properties.

Sloping the armor in a new generation tank with modern ceramic composites is a waste of size, space and weight in the vehicle.

How come? Its directly decreases the effective penetration made by projectiles due to the extra thickness created by sloped armors. I dont see how this would be any different with or without ceramic composite armor, and going as far as to say that its not a variable at all seems kinda far fetched. The newest generation of tanks currently being created are all sloped armor such as the Armata, Leopard2A7 and etc. They both also have APS. But i would love to read about the dynamics of the process, can you post some sources. Thanks in advance.

 

[Mr.Department]

I have pointed out this fact many times here - armor sloping is not a variable of effectiveness in ceramic composite armor.

Modern ceramic composites are in fact far more effective at stopping penetration when hit straight on as the layers can fully enact their dissipation and sheering properties.

Sloping the armor in a new generation tank with modern ceramic composites is a waste of size, space and weight in the vehicle.

Composite, ERA, soft and hard kill. How would you protect the tank bottom ? Against kinetic energy mines ?

View attachment 390278

Bro. No Akkor hardkill?

 

[Seyfullah]

 

[-SINAN-]

I think deal will be signed in IDEF 2017.

 

[Jackal131]

How come? Its directly decreases the effective penetration made by projectiles due to the extra thickness created by sloped armors. I dont see how this would be any different with or without ceramic composite armor, and going as far as to say that its not a variable at all seems kinda far fetched. The newest generation of tanks currently being created are all sloped armor such as the Armata, Leopard2A7 and etc. They both also have APS. But i would love to read about the dynamics of the process, can you post some sources. Thanks in advance.

Modern ceramic composites are inherently designed to take hits head on simple as (even look at a soldiers body armor). The protective quality of CERAMIC COMPOSITES is not about deflecting or resisting the energy of a projectile but about dissipating it internally.

Back in the days of steel only and steel - metallic composites it was about angle. The armor had to defeat impact through sheer force. Hardness and density of armor versus velocity, hardness, density, and heat of the projectile. If you had to stop a projectile by sheer hardness and density of your armor, you had to make sure the armor was thick, first of all so it wouldn't break or become brittle on impact, secondly because the projectile would concentrate its energy into one small area. As the projectiles energy traveled into this small area, the only way to stop the projectile was to make the armor thick enough that the projectile would lose its energy as it bored through the armor.

However, to keep tanks light while also ensuring thickness, sloping was introduced. At the expense of taking up more internal space. And there is no need to explain to you why sloping was beneficial as you know. It simply gave the projectile more armor to bore through.

But modern ceramic composites have changed that. Ceramic Composite armor does not resist the projectiles attempt at boring a small hole through the armor, instead, it absorbs the projectiles energy into its own layers in multiple directions, the projectile loses energy horizontally and vertically of its path.

Unfortunately my sources are learned knowledge form lessons and hardback not google. However I am sure if you look for some E-books on armor technology and principles you will find plenty. I will try to find some free online material and post it my friend.

EDIT: Regarding the tanks you listed as having sloped armor.

The leapard is not a new tank. Regardless of variant. Its core armor principles simply do not possess the modern ceramic composites that Altay has. Leapard is depended partially on stopping penetration through sheer force of its own armor, not through dissipation of the projectiles energy.

The Amata on the other hand has no sloping. The turret is actually flat surfaces like the Altay. What you see is the Armata's low radar observable turret cover. That is not even armor. It is simply a stealth application. The real turret is underneath that cover and is far far smaller.

This is what the Armatas actual turret looks like:
http://www.rosinform.ru/assets/files/photosets/photos/7-3-10-1.jpg.896x604_q90.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/ACtZX8N.jpg

If you view some close ups from parades, you can actually see the real turret under the cover, especially in between the large APS tubes and the barrel.

 

[BordoEnes]

Modern ceramic composites are inherently designed to take hits head on simple as (even look at a soldiers body armor). The protective quality of CERAMIC COMPOSITES is not about deflecting or resisting the energy of a projectile but about dissipating it internally.

Back in the days of steel only and steel - metallic composites it was about angle. The armor had to defeat impact through sheer force. Hardness and density of armor versus velocity, hardness, density, and heat of the projectile. If you had to stop a projectile by sheer hardness and density of your armor, you had to make sure the armor was thick, first of all so it wouldn't break or become brittle on impact, secondly because the projectile would concentrate its energy into one small area. As the projectiles energy traveled into this small area, the only way to stop the projectile was to make the armor thick enough that the projectile would lose its energy as it bored through the armor.

However, to keep tanks light while also ensuring thickness, sloping was introduced. At the expense of taking up more internal space. And there is no need to explain to you why sloping was beneficial as you know. It simply gave the projectile more armor to bore through.

But modern ceramic composites have changed that. Ceramic Composite armor does not resist the projectiles attempt at boring a small hole through the armor, instead, it absorbs the projectiles energy into its own layers in multiple directions, the projectile loses energy horizontally and vertically of its path.

Unfortunately my sources are learned knowledge form lessons and hardback not google. However I am sure if you look for some E-books on armor technology and principles you will find plenty. I will try to find some free online material and post it my friend.

EDIT: Regarding the tanks you listed as having sloped armor.

The leapard is not a new tank. Regardless of variant. Its core armor principles simply do not possess the modern ceramic composites that Altay has. Leapard is depended partially on stopping penetration through sheer force of its own armor, not through dissipation of the projectiles energy.

The Amata on the other hand has no sloping. The turret is actually flat surfaces like the Altay. What you see is the Armata's low radar observable turret cover. That is not even armor. It is simply a stealth application. The real turret is underneath that cover and is far far smaller.

This is what the Armatas actual turret looks like:
http://www.rosinform.ru/assets/files/photosets/photos/7-3-10-1.jpg.896x604_q90.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/ACtZX8N.jpg

If you view some close ups from parades, you can actually see the real turret under the cover, especially in between the large APS tubes and the barrel.

Thanks man. A good informative read indeed. I stand corrected.

 

[Jackal131]

Composite, ERA, soft and hard kill. How would you protect the tank bottom ? Against kinetic energy mines ?

Armor is all you can do against most mines.

The T90 and modernised T72(Maybe) series also have systems that disable some mines. The fuse or arming mechanism is disabled before the tank runs over it through an electronic field.Was very advanced when it came out.

 

[Mr.Department]

use or arming mechanism is disabled before the tank runs over it through an electronic field

Understood. Thank you

 

[ziya]

 

[ziya]

 

[u.MP]

Wait, Altay can fire laser-guided missiles from its gun??

 

[Bubblegum Crisis]

Wait, Altay can fire laser-guided missiles from its gun??

Yes it’s possible ! But where is the missile ?


LAHAT

XM1111 Mid-Range Munition (cancelled)

...

 

[Hexciter]

There is a rumour that Altay production contract has gone to Otokar and will be signed in IDEF 2017 at May 9th.

https://twitter.com/x/status/853530660677582849