Altay & Turkish Main Battle Tank Programs

[UkroTurk]

http://m.yenisafak.com/ekonomi/tumosandan-yeni-nesil-atak-2635825

are this talk for domestic engine or for all engines because germans dont want to sell us their engines?

arn't there british engines to buy?

1500hp tank engines are limited. British tank engine 1200hp.

 

[Timur]

http://m.yenisafak.com/ekonomi/tumosandan-yeni-nesil-atak-2635825



1500hp tank engines are limited. British tank engine 1200hp.

now I googled and saw that they have more torque than the ukrainian engines

Perkins 26.6 litre CV12 diesel engine delivering 1200bhp (895kW) at 2300rpm. Torque 4126 Nm at 1700rpm.

4126 nm is better than the ukrainian ones.. we may get more torque with better turbo and sub systems and software?

if we get that uk engine and can get some key technology to modify it or a modified special version from UK why not..

but by the way I think the ukrainian engine is crap for altay.. its like more for tulpar,kaplan and better for a light tank..
they cant be serious to compare a 6 cylinder engine with 12 cylinder its like comparing a V5 2,4 liter Audi with a mazda rx8 wich has 1,3 liter its not the same power and not the same wheight class

but my opinion is why do they not try to get technology somewhere on V12 engins and copy the german one it may be not as good as original one in quality but it could be enough..

 

[UkroTurk]

http://www.tumosan.com.tr/tr/haberler/tumosan-yeni-nesil-dizel-motor-ailesini-tanitti

May be there are some secret projects.

 

[Mr.Department]

Perkins 26.6 litre CV12 diesel engine delivering 1200bhp (895kW) at 2300rpm. Torque 4126 Nm at 1700rpm

I wrote about Perkins engines. Perkins engine can produce much more power.
There is always German propaganda dominating.
Don't think too much. Türkiye will solve it.

Also Tümosan will be ready soon.

http://www.tumosan.com.tr/tr/haberler/tumosan-yeni-nesil-dizel-motor-ailesini-tanitti

May be there are some secret projects.

AVL'in Alman sirketi oldugu ve projeyi bizzat Alman ve Avusturya Hükümetlerinin sabote ettigi asagida yazili !

Birinci motor düz 6 silindirli tek egzantrikli tek turbo dizel motor

İkinci motor ise v12 çift turboşarjlı dizel motor.

http://www.tumosan.com.tr/tr/haberler/tumosan-yeni-nesil-dizel-motor-ailesini-tanitti

Quote Merzifonlu :

Başınız dönmesin. Ben epeyi evvelden bu firmayı takip ediyorum. Biraz da bu nedenle tork konusunda 6TD motorundan Sayın HDS'den daha ümitvarım.

Fikrimce Amerikalıların karşıt pistonlu motorlara yönelmelerinin nedeni, oyunu "alman deplasmanında" oynamak istemiyor olmaları. Klasik dizel motor düzeneklerinde alman uzmanlığına makul sürede erişemeyeceklerini bildiklerinden, bir nevi boş atıp dolu tutturmaya çalışıyorlar.

Bana kalırsa Ukrayna 6TD motorunda gerekli modifikasyonları: a) silindir çapına dokunmadan b) silindir ekleyerek ve silindir yerleşimiyle oynayarak yapabilir.

ABDnin bu konuda ciddi niyeti var. ACE (Advanced Combat Engine) artık elle tutulur gözle görülür bir proje ve karşıt pistonlu motorlar üzerinden yürüyor. Aslında ABD 2000lerin ortasından beri bu konu ile ilgileniyor ama bilimsel fizibiliteydi, teknoloji gösterimiydi derken 2015 gibi artık seri üretime yönelik bir çalışma içine girdiler. Öncelikle karşıt pistonlu motorlar konusunda çok ciddi kabiliyetleri olan Achates firması ile anlaştılar. Bunun yanında firma tarihi boyunca 260 defa sıfırdan içten yanmalı motor tasarlamış AVL firmasını da ekibe kattılar. Yine ek olarak birkaç ulusal laboratuarı da bu proje için tahsis ettile

 

[UkroTurk]

As for MTU-883, you do realize Abrams has been offered by General Dynamics with a drop-in Tognum America/12V883 diesel engine diesel engine to replace the gas turbine engine. Guess what engine that is a license produced copy of? This GD engine also powers Merkava IV

GD produced mt883 for Merkavas in USA.
Tümosan should copy MT883 .

 

[Mr.Department]

GD produced mt883 for Merkavas in USA.
Tümosan should copy MT883 .

I asked many times why no marine engine derivatives for tanks ?

Can you answer me ? Here is a company we could buy for example.

http://www.seatek-spa.com/en/marine-engines/12-4v-21.html

http://www.seatek-spa.com/assets/files/12.pdf

Marine engines are much more relieable referring to this source :

http://www.boatfix.com/how/marineeng.html

In regard to the cooling systems, one of the major differences is found in the water-circulating pump. This is especially noticable when you have a raw water cooled engine. Unlike their automotive counterpart, a marine pump works in an open cooling system. This type of system is extremely corrosive to the pump. Therefore, the pump must be altered for longevity. A marine pump has a special ceramic seal, stainless steel backing plate, and a bronze impeller to resist corrosion. An automotive style pump, with its stamped steel impeller, would fail due to corrosion in a short time.
The electrical systems in a marine application are also extremely specialized. In an automobile, any gasoline vapors that accumulate will readily dissipate through the bottom of the engine compartment. However, a boat with its sealed engine compartment, does not have that luxury. Therefore, any spark could literally cause a boat to explode. All electrical components in a boat are either completely sealed or specially vented to prevent such a catastrophe. This includes the starter, alternator, distributor, and many other engine electrical components.
Carburetors typically have what is known in the industry as J type fuel bowls. These allow for the extreme vibration, pitching and yawl experienced on boats. This allows fuel to be drawn in exteme conditions and keeps fuel from being ejected from the carburetor barrels.

 

[UkroTurk]

V8X 1500

http://www.army-guide.com/eng/firm1766.html

Designation:
V8X 1500

Manufacturer: Wartsila France
Product type: Engine and Systems
Name: Diesel engine


Specifications:
Property Value
Engine power output (h.p.)
1500
Cylinder bore (mm)
142
Cylinder stroke (mm)
130
Rated speed (r.p.m.)
2500
Maximum torque (Nm)
4850
Fuel consuption (g/h.p.h)
230
Weight (kg)
2500

 

[UkroTurk]

As Ariete :
Ariete C1 has 1200hp and 4500Nm torque!
IVECO started in the 2000s to upgrade the engine, with lengthened strokes (30 litres), a new common rail direct fuel injection system and a new double turbocharger, giving a max output of 1600 hp at 1800 rpm (1200 kw), and electroniclly controlled torque to spare the transmission.
The Ariete Mk.2 (or C-2?) was revealed in 2002 and is scheduled for production in the 2015-2020 timeframe with an autoloader, new hydropneumatic suspension, modernized FCS and additional armour.
http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/modern/Italy/Ariete-MBT.php

 

[Stimpy75]

French hyperbar Engine
Very powerful but also very thirsty similar to turbine

 

[YoungTurk01]

Fck it lets put HEMI in it. Lol

 

[UkroTurk]

Re: Differences between commercial truck & tank diesel e

Tank diesels are very highly supercharged (I believe the engine the French use in the Leclerc, after its turbocharging, something like 120psi gauge inlet pressure). US tank diesels were both highly turbocharged and aircooled. In addition, they had variable compression ratios by, if I recall, hydraulically changing the length of the connecting rods.

So, higher levels of supercharging (I believe all current tank diesels have two stages of turbocharging, with charge air cooling between the HP and LP stage and between the HP stage and the engine) are the major issue. If I recall, the diesels used in current German, British, and French tanks are pumping out over 1 hp/cubic inch.
http://warships1discussionboards.yu...etween-commercial-truck-amp-tank-diesel-engin

 

[Mr.Department]

Re: Differences between commercial truck & tank diesel e

Tank diesels are very highly supercharged (I believe the engine the French use in the Leclerc, after its turbocharging, something like 120psi gauge inlet pressure). US tank diesels were both highly turbocharged and aircooled. In addition, they had variable compression ratios by, if I recall, hydraulically changing the length of the connecting rods.

So, higher levels of supercharging (I believe all current tank diesels have two stages of turbocharging, with charge air cooling between the HP and LP stage and between the HP stage and the engine) are the major issue. If I recall, the diesels used in current German, British, and French tanks are pumping out over 1 hp/cubic inch.
http://warships1discussionboards.yu...etween-commercial-truck-amp-tank-diesel-engin

Some people asked for transmission producer



The Company has been active in Turkish Defense Sector since 1989 and manufactured thousands of powerpacks of Allison X200-4(B) automatic transmissions and Detroit Diesel 6V53T heavy duty engines for tracked vehicles and upgrade and modernization programs. The products are used by primarily Turkish and some other countries including Malaysia and Saudi Arabia with success.

HST has necessary logistics - repair and maintenance capability and modern test systems for aftersale operations of automatic transmissions produced.

HST has manufacturing licenses from Allison Transmission Inc. for X200 and X1100 family of cross-drive transmissions.

X200-4(B) / X200-4C ELECTRONIC TRANSMISSION

Allison X200-4(B) cross drive automatic transmission. 4 forward 1 reverse speeds, hydraulic power type braking, hydrostatically controlled-infinitely variable type steering. Up to 400 NHP (298 kW) net input power and 18 tons max. vehicle weight. It is utilized in Armoured Combat Vehicles and M113 family of vehicles upgrade and modernization programs.

X1100-5 TRANSMISSION

Allison X1100-5 cross drive automatic transmission. 4 forward 2 reverse speeds, hydraulic power type braking, hydrostatically controlled-infinitely variable type steering. Up to 1.500 GHP (1.120 kW) input power, 3.000 rpm max. input speed and 70 tons max. vehicle weight. It is used in modern tank programs and M60 tank upgrades.

X1100-5A3 TRANSMISSION

Allison X1100-5A3 cross drive automatic transmission. 4 forward 2 reverse speeds, hydraulic power type braking, hydrostatically controlled-infinitely variable type steering. Up to 1.500 GHP (1.120 kW) input power, 3.000 rpm max. input speed and 70 tons max. vehicle weight. It is used in advanced Firtina of Turkish and K9 of South Korean Armies howitzers.

HST has completed both selection and application of transmissions and design and production of final drives for BTR60 Modernization Program in Turkey.

The factory has also accomplished the production of transfer boxes and their special tests for TACOM military tactical wheeled vehicles project.

HST has necessary infrastructure for manufacturing transmissions and their components for air platforms.

http://www.hema.com.tr/EN,82/products.html

 

[Seyfullah]

https://twitter.com/x/status/848437275138691072

 

[Oguzhan]

Short of long
They acquered powerpack for Fırtına-2
They also have 100 ready powerpacks for Altay
Ukranian and Turkish engineers will soon start working on domestic diesel engine soon
Theese are some good news as far as i know
+we can infer from this that Mtu is totally out
++ I dunno either they give the serial production of Altay to a company that cooperates with Rheinmetal

 

[UkroTurk]

This engine can easily be converted into MTU standarts in tha hand of Turkish engineerings. The project model will most probably be a cooperation based on existing Ukrainian engine...
Great news.

Delta’dan Altay motoruna Ar-Ge sözü

Altay Ana Muharebe Tankında kullanılacak motorun Ukrayna’dan geleceğinin ortaya çıkması ile program önemli bir sorunu başarıyla aşmış oldu. UkrOboronProm Genel Müdürü Roman Romanov, dergimize verdiği özel röportajda bu konuda Türkiye ve Ukrayna başbakanlarının anlaşmaya vardığını, işbirliği için uzun süredir çalışma yürütüldüğünü açıklamıştı. C4Defence, arka planda kalarak çalışmaları yürüten UkrOboronProm’un Türkiye temsilcisi Delta Defence Savunma LTD firmasına ulaştı. Genel Müdür Serdar Özyurt, Türk kamuoyunun pek tanımadığı bir isim. Yurt dışında çeşitli ülkelerde savunma alanında çalışmalar yürüten Özyurt, süreci ve motorla ilgili planlarını paylaştı. Çalışmaların tank motorundan daha geniş bir çerçevede görülmesi gerektiğinin altını çizen Özyurt, Ukrayna ile firma arası ilişkilerin köklü bir geçmişi olduğunu belirtti. Özyurt, “bu anlaşmanın altyapısını biz bir yıldır oluşturuyoruz. İki tarafa da karşılaşabilecekleri sorunları ve işbirliğinin getireceği fırsatları gösteriyoruz“ dedi. Motorla ilgili planları ise Özyurt şöyle özetledi; “Dizel motoruyla ilgili olarak Ukrayna’dan UkrOboronProm bilgisi altında sekiz mühendisi belirledik, Türkiye’den üç veya dört mühendis bu gruba katılacak. Önümüzdeki hafta açacağımız AR-GE ofisinde 12 kişilik ekiple dizel motoru konusunda tüm çalışmaları başlatıyoruz. UkrOboronProm’dan tüm teknik desteği alıyoruz.”

Özyurt, Altay Tankı için bütün çalışmaları AR-Ge ofisinde yürüteceklerini belirterek, “Bizim hedefimiz Milli Dizel motorun Ar-Ge’sini bitirmek, bu konuda sadece ülkemizin değil çevre müttefik ülkelerin de bu motora ihtiyacı olduğu için onlara ihraç etmek. Bunlardan birinin Pakistan olduğunu düşünüyoruz. Onların da ihtiyacını karşılayabileceğimize inanıyoruz“ dedi.

Altay Tankının üretimi ve Fırtına Obüsünün ihracat sorunlarına hızlı çözüm olması için önerileri olduğunu belirten Özyurt, “Elimizde Ukrayna menşeili 200 adet dizel motoru hazır bulunuyor. Bu motorları herhangi bir ihracat sıkıntısı olmadan, herhangi bir sınır ötesi operasyon kısıtlaması olmayacağını taahhüt ederek tank ve obüste çalıştırmak istiyoruz. Şu ana kadar yürütülen çalışmalar sonucunda 5TDMI1 motorun Fırtına Obüsüne transmisyon uyumları da sağlandı. Böylece aslında bu motorlar şanzımanlarıyla birlikte güç paketi olarak gelecek. Bu motordan elimizde 100 adet var. Diğer 100 6TD motor da Altay tankı için hazır durumda. Bu motorların kullanılması halinde MTU motorlarıyla yaşanan hiçbir sıkıntının yaşanmayacağını da ayrıca taahhüt ediyoruz“ şeklinde konuştu.

Editörün notu:

Ukrayna’dan gelecek motor ebat ve ürettiği güç nedeniyle bazı uyum çalışmalarına tabi tutulacak. Hali hazırda kullanılan MTU motor Ukrayna’nın motorundan daha ağır ve tank içinde daha fazla yer kaplıyor. MTU motor, diğer yandan tankın ani manevra yapmasını sağlayan daha yüksek torku üretiyor. Ukrayna’dan tedarik edilecek motorun üreteceği torkun ve tankın yürüyen aksamının bu değişikliklere uyumlu hale getirilmesi gerekiyor.

Temsilcilik yazıları blurlanmıştır.

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Ukranian distributer said that they have 200 engines ready for Altay???
8 engineers from Ukraine and 4 Turkish engineers what are they going to do ?
New engine or adaptation old 6td?