AJK capital sees first march for occupied Kashmir's independence

[Rafeh]

some not all, just some Kashmiris are disappointed. They think this war is only for water resources, not to end their suffering. As long as water is coming to Pakistan, Pakistan won't start a war.

They don't have enough firepower to fight themselves. Pakistan does not seem to be doing enough in their view. which is understandable.

If half of any Pakistani state was in such situation, many would have done the same. There is nothing out of ordinary human nature here.

 

[Zibago]

Is the thinking different in Mirpur as compared to lets say Muzaffarabad or Neelum Valley?

Not by a long shot

 

[Areesh]

some not all, just some Kashmiris are disappointed. They think this war is only for water resources, not to end their suffering. As long as water is coming to Pakistan, Pakistan won't start a war.

They don't have enough firepower to fight themselves. Pakistan does not seem to be doing enough in their view. which is understandable.

If half of any Pakistani state was in such situation, many would have done the same. There is nothing out of ordinary human nature here.

And when Pakistani state started a war with india for them like in 65 or in 99 they didn't bother to rise against Indian state. in fact many continued to collaborate and help India in different manner

But yeah pakistan should fight their war and get them freedom while Kashmiris sit in their homes

 

[Rafeh]

And when Pakistani state started a war with india for them like in 65 or in 99 they didn't bother to rise against Indian state. in fact many continued to collaborate and help India in different manner

But yeah pakistan should fight their war and get them freedom while Kashmiris sit in their homes

Kashmiris are not sitting in their homes.They are fighting as much as a civilian population can. What would you do?

Most kashmiris are passive, like people in Pakistan. A civilian population cannot go and start fighting an organized vast army.

Even punjabis or people from the rest of Pakistan did not go to save other Punjabi brethren when they were being slaughters in millions during 1940 to 1947, even after seeing women and babies cut to pieces with ordinary weapons with the such hand knifes and kirpaans. Those murdering hindus and sikhs did not have modern high tech weapons yet the there was no mass movement in punjab the western Punjab sat.

Sikh even put their horses in Badshahi mosque during punjab rule, rapping women everywhere while whole Punjab and other provinces sat doing nothing. WE have our own history of betraying other Muslims and ourselves. We have not been loyal to anyone.

Kashmiris are domesticated people not war fighting by nature. What can you do to change that.

The effort they are doing is frankly admirable considering like the most of Pakistan, kashmiris are passive people.

You keep bringing 65. That's fine. If some employed by indian state at that time continued to collaborate with indians does not mean all Kashmiri are like that. Most kashmiris have nothign to do with that.

During sikh rule when they were rapping women in Punjab and KP, a large number of their soldiers were muslim punjabis and possibly even pashtunes. Read Ranjit singh etc. multi volume books. I can't remember but they are available in pakistan.


Some bad apple does not mean whole province or whole country is like that.

This is not meant to be offensive. Just pointing that not everyone in every part of the muslims region have to "real momin".

I am not and nor are others.

Even in sahaba's time, madina was full of munafiques that does not mean, we should not stand for those who want have a "dar-ul-islam" for themselves. We should do the right thing, even when they don't.

 

[B.K.N]

Sikh even put their horses in Badshahi mosque during punjab rule, rapping women everywhere

All of such things are exaggerated Sikhs were locals of Punjab in most areas people who were against their local rulers invited Sikhs and sided with them
And during partition people were killed in both eastern and western Punjab
People here call 1947 lootian aala saal
Matlab jis saal loot Mar hui thi

 

[Areesh]

Kashmiris are not sitting in their homes.They are fighting as much as a civilian population can. What would you do?

Pakistan was fighting to protect its agriculture economy in those war. Most kashmiris are passive, like people in Pakistan. A civilian population cannot go and start fighting an organized vast army.

Even punjabi did not go to save other Punjabi brethren when they were being slaughters in millions during 1940 to 1947, even after seeing women and babies cut to pieces with ordinary weapons with the such hand knifes and kirpaans. Those murdering hindus and sikhs did not have modern high tech weapons yet the there was no mass movement in punjab the western Punjab sat.

Sikh even put their horses in Badshahi mosque during punjab rule, rapping women everywhere while whole Punjab and other provinces sat doing nothing. WE have our own history of betraying other Muslims and ourselves. We have not been loyal to anyone.

The Kashmir that was freed by mostly by tribal Pashtunes who died in 10's of thousands and fought a very difficult war.

Kashmiris are domesticated people not war fighting by nature. What can you do to change that.

The effort they are doing is frankly admirable considering like the most of Pakistan, kashmiris are passive people.

You keep bringing 65 due to your hatred for Kashmir. That's fine. If some employed by indian state at that time continued to collaborate with indians does not mean all Kashmiri are like that. Most kashmiris have nothign to do with that.

During sikh rule when were rapping women in Punjab and KP, a large number of their soldiers were muslim punjabis and possibly even pashtunes. Read Ranjit singh etc. multi volume books. I can't remember but they are available in pakistan.

This is not meant to be offensive. Just pointing that not everyone in every part of the muslims region have to "real momin".

I am not and nor are others.

Even in sahaba's time, madina was full of munafiques that does not mean, we should not stand for those who want have a "dar-ul-islam" for themselves. We should do the right thing, even when they don't.

If Kashmiris are passive people and don't want to fight like any other civilian then they should give up on this freedom dream and live happily under india

Pakistan fought those wars for kashmir. Nothing changed for Pakistani agriculture due to those wars. Those wars were for kashmir while people of Kashmir kept on sleeping in their homes. This is a fact.

I don't care what punjabis did during sikh rule. I say that today Kashmiris would have to forget about foolish dreams like an independent country and fight together fir a final battle for a final goal that is to kick India out and unite with Pakistan. Pakistan would fight shoulder to shoulder with them for it. It would be a very bloody war but that is the only way end this conflict. We are not going to fight India to make kashmir an independent country that is not even feasible realistically

If they can't do that then sit down and live with india.

 

[Rafeh]

All of such things are exaggerated Sikhs were locals of Punjab in most areas people who were against their local rulers invited Sikhs and sided with them
And during partition people were killed in both eastern and western Punjab
People here call 1947 lootian aala saal
Matlab jis saal loot Mar hui thi

I invite you to read british newspapers of that time, they are availalbe in England in big libraries. IF you are not there, then perhaps ask a relative. Then you can make your own mind.

There were trains filled with murdred women and chilren from eastern punjab, nothing from western punjab. In Wester punjab most attacks were on sikhs as revenge for the east. NO body from whole of Pakistan started any mass movement to save Eastern punjabis who were going through genocide.

If Kashmiris are passive people and don't want to fight like any other civilian then they should give up on this freedom dream and live happily under india

Pakistan fought those wars for kashmir. Nothing changed for Pakistani agriculture due to those wars. Those wars were for kashmir while people of Kashmir kept on sleeping in their homes. This is a fact.

I don't care what punjabis did during sikh rule. I say that today Kashmiris would have to forget about foolish dreams like an independent country and fight together fir a final battle for a final goal that is to kick India out and unite with Pakistan. Pakistan would fight shoulder to shoulder with them for it. It would be a very bloody war but that is the only way end this conflict. We are not going to fight India to make kashmir an independent country that is not even feasible realistically

If they can't do that then sit down and live with india.

Most Kashmiris do want to live with Pakistan. Think about it, where they gonna get a port, or security, or job opportunities.

Even if the separate they will eventually come back.

 

[Areesh]

Most Kashmiris do want to live with Pakistan. Think about it, where they gonna get a port, or security, or job opportunities.

Even if the separate they will eventually come back.

agri-culture means if india takes over, they can divert all water to india.

India can't divert whole water even today. Even today it releases flood waters of even those rivers that were given to it under indus water treaty.

Kashmiris are confused bunch of people who even today are confused about what they want. Till they are confused they shouldn't complain about Pakistan lack of action.

 

[B.K.N]

In Wester punjab most attacks were on sikhs as revenge for the east

People of Pakistani Punjab and Indian punjab had no love for each other and it wasn't due to revenge
Every government has some opponents those opponents sided with Sikhs and Sikhs captured entire Punjab and his soldiers were Muslim punjabis and there enemy were Afghanistan not Sikhs

agri-culture means if india takes over, they can divert all water to india.

Indian can't steal water from Indus Ravi and satlij are already under Indian control
And Chenab maybe is the only river from where they can steal water
But right now it's free Indians aren't stealing from chenab and jhelum it floods every year I know because i live only few kilometers away from these two rivers

 

[Rafeh]

I wanna add something here. Despite what I wrote above (just to point scores out of my ego I suppose), Most Pakistanis love Kashmiris and Most kasmiris do love Pakistan.

Wide spread support for Kashmir is due to this love. Also Kashmiri historically, ethnically and religiously are much closer to Pakistan than another people in the world.

Hence there is so much wide support for Kashmir.

Average Pakistani stand for Kashmir out of their love and sense of relationship with Kashmir. An overwhelming number of Kashmiris also love Pakistan.

 

[B.K.N]

Average person is not worried about water.

It's not easy to divert these rivers Ravi jhelum and beas pass through Indian Punjab and jhelum and Chenab pass through mountainous areas and irrigate Pakistani punjab from the borders of Kashmir till Muzafargath Pakistani agricultural is dependent on these two rivers mostly on chenab because jhelum is smaller river

 

[Rafeh]

People of Pakistani Punjab and Indian punjab had no love for each other and it wasn't due to revenge
Every government has some opponents those opponents sided with Sikhs and Sikhs captured entire Punjab and his soldiers were Muslim punjabis and there enemy were Afghanistan not Sikhs

Indian can't steal water from Indus Ravi and satlij are already under Indian control
And Chenab maybe is the only river from where they can steal water
But right now it's free Indians aren't stealing from chenab and jhelum it floods every year I know because i live only few kilometers away from these two rivers

You are right, water is not reason. but some politicians used that. Though there should have been love in whole of Pakistan for muslims facing genocide in eastern punjab, they were just next door. Well past is past. its gone and dead. We should move on into the present.

 

[Dark-Destroyer]

And when Pakistani state started a war with india for them like in 65 or in 99 they didn't bother to rise against Indian state. in fact many continued to collaborate and help India in different manner

But yeah pakistan should fight their war and get them freedom while Kashmiris sit in their homes

I disagree how can you say the kashmiris were helping india based on what? How so did they from azad Kashmir help india

 

[Rafeh]

India can't divert whole water even today. Even today it releases flood waters of even those rivers that were given to it under indus water treaty.

Kashmiris are confused bunch of people who even today are confused about what they want. Till they are confused they shouldn't complain about Pakistan lack of action.

Look I myself get anxiety and feel anger at those nationalist kashmiris when some of their nationalist want a separate country. I actually feel depressed.

At that time, I see the whole muslim world a bunch of racists who are ruining my desire of a united islam.

What I am saying, we should focus on those who do love Pakistan and believe me they are still majority on both sides.
It just those who are not pro-Pakistan and it hurts so much that we end up hating whole Kashmir.

Majority of Kashmiris still do love Pakistan. Its a fact. Their confusion or passivity, well that's something that Kashmiri leadership have to resolve off course.

Though in my personal opinion Kashmiris are not being passive. Far from it, what they are doing that's the best a civilian population under massive military seige can do.

 

[Dark-Destroyer]

It is wrong to think that after 70 years that the kashmiris dont love pakistan and based on a few ralies you make the opinion....

When altaf Hussain and these molana diesels dad and that anp leader have said and done to pakistan far worse