Air Force Question Thread

[Incog_nito]

Why there's so much activity of PAF (fighter jets) in the sea view area of Karachi?

I can hear jets are roaring too much!

 

[Trailer23]

Who knows, maybe a new airbase in KHI (that we still don't know of) or some exercises taking place.

Oh and for those who can spare a few mins..., check out my new Video Edit on:
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/pakistan-air-force-vids-edited-on-adobe-premiere.585383/

 

[Imran Khan]

Why there's so much activity of PAF (fighter jets) in the sea view area of Karachi?

I can hear jets are roaring too much!

routine missions over sea .

 

[Incog_nito]

I think there's some rehearsal on Karachi Sea View area!

 

[salman-1]

There's activity over Lahore too. I just heard very clear just after our jumma prayers. Over DHA

 

[Trailer23]

Q. If the PAF faces issues over spares for our aging F-16 - how difficult would it be to Reverse Engineer some of the Mechanical Parts by PAC?

I know that it might not be possible for certain exterior components and/or electrical based on complexity - but just wondering.

Case in point: Iranians have been flying those F-14 Tomcats for well over 04 Decades now. Its not as if they can get parts from another nation under the table - no one has ever operated those jets.

 

[Shabi1]

Why there's so much activity of PAF (fighter jets) in the sea view area of Karachi?

I can hear jets are roaring too much!

 

[Bossman]

Assalamoalikum !
Can any body explain about the extent of reality regarding PAF Sargodha AFB underground Hangars ?
Says Wikipedia regarding underground facility.

Facilities yes and on all bases. Hangers no.

 

[Trailer23]

Flying to Karachi in the morning...
Gonna be staying with my dad at Sea View and return on the 29th itself (evening).

Just might get a glimpse of the Air Show if its earlier in the day .

 

[Signalian]

@Nilgiri @Signalian (salam if you're still here) Can you guys tell me the difference between an AN/ASQ-228 ATFLIR pod & AN/AAQ-28 Litening targeting pod? Which is better and why? In lay man terms plz

They both have same functions apart from a couple of minor differences, some of those relating to politics. I will not list down the functions supposing that you are familiar with targeting pods.

Lets starts with political reason first, ATFLIR was designed for the F-18's initially but US Navy/USMC started equipping F-18 A+/C/D and Harrier AV-8B with Litening pods, even when ATFLIR pods had been ordered already. When ATFLIR pods arrived, they installed them on F-18 E/F SH. Now the debate is to convert all F-18's (basically all F-18 C/D's) to ATFLIR for commonality of system. There are of course two lobbies; one says that Litening is inducted on all F-18's so should be installed now on all F-18 E/F's, while other says that ATFLIR was originally intended for all F-18's so strip F-18 A+/C/D's from Litening and install ATFLIR instead just like F-18 E/F.

Technically, Litening doesn't take up a hard point while ATFLIR takes up an AMRAAM hard point under fuselage for F-18's.There are claims that ATFLIR's performance (resolution) is better than Litening Pod, but it could be debatable since i reckon that F-18 E/F's sensors, data bus and radar are better than F-18 C/D's so maybe these components could affect the performance of the targeting pod also.

Cost wise, Litening is cheaper, ATFLIR is expensive. Litening is used by USAF, USN, USMC and lots of other air forces, while ATFLIR has fewer customers.

 

[The Sandman]

They both have same functions apart from a couple of minor differences, some of those relating to politics. I will not list down the functions supposing that you are familiar with targeting pods.

Lets starts with political reason first, ATFLIR was designed for the F-18's initially but US Navy/USMC started equipping F-18 A+/C/D and Harrier AV-8B with Litening pods, even when ATFLIR pods had been ordered already. When ATFLIR pods arrived, they installed them on F-18 E/F SH. Now the debate is to convert all F-18's (basically all F-18 C/D's) to ATFLIR for commonality of system. There are of course two lobbies; one says that Litening is inducted on all F-18's so should be installed now on all F-18 E/F's, while other says that ATFLIR was originally intended for all F-18's so strip F-18 A+/C/D's from Litening and install ATFLIR instead just like F-18 E/F.

Technically, Litening doesn't take up a hard point while ATFLIR takes up an AMRAAM hard point under fuselage for F-18's.There are claims that ATFLIR's performance (resolution) is better than Litening Pod, but it could be debatable since i reckon that F-18 E/F's sensors, data bus and radar are better than F-18 C/D's so maybe these components could affect the performance of the targeting pod also.

Cost wise, Litening is cheaper, ATFLIR is expensive. Litening is used by USAF, USN, USMC and lots of other air forces, while ATFLIR has fewer customers.

Thanks for replies and info guys appreciate it!

@Nilgiri

 

[Nilgiri]

Cost wise, Litening is cheaper, ATFLIR is expensive.

Yeah this is the big issue that is being debated right now actually. From the grapevine I have some access to, lot of USMC higher ups are prioritizing acquisition speed....versus the commonality debate pushed by USMC-USN mentality types.

 

[Gryphon]

@CriticalThought

Reply to comment: https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/paf-to-retire-the-f-7-fleet.598665/page-7#post-11128007

PAF F-16s lack ALCM capability, and there is no other option except SOM since the US will almost certainly refuse to sell cruise missiles to Pakistan. SOM is already certified for Turkish F-16s.

For JF-17, many weapons with stand-off ranges are available. The CM-400AKG (which PAF says is integrated to JF-17 but not in operational service) can be used in air-to-ground as well as anti-ship role. It is not a sea-skimming cruise missile, the missile's flight altitude exceeds the limits of most short-to-medium range SAM's and in the terminal phase, it dives towards the target at supersonic-hypersonic speeds, which reduces the probability of intercept.

Since No. 2 sqn is dedicated to the maritime strike role, C-802AK & CM-400AKG equipped JF-17s will act as a conventional deterrent against the enemy (until a platform like Su-35/J-16 is acquired). PAF F-16s don't have this role, which is evident from the Harpoon inventory, which is all held by PN.



@Tps43
Plz continue here.

 

[Signalian]

PAF F-16s lack ALCM capability, and there is no other option except SOM since the US will almost certainly refuse to sell cruise missiles to Pakistan. SOM is already certified for Turkish F-16s.

F-16 was inducted as Air Defence fighter in 1983 and was tasked only with Air to Air missions until the Soviet withdrawal from Afghanistan at the end of 1980's and that's when the Thompson-CSF ALTIS II laser designation pod was installed for Air to Ground missions. It is said that LANTRIN pod was not available in market, however it was in USAF service in 1987. The same year PAF started installing Thompson-CSF ALTIS II laser designation pod, which is French. I am assuming that Thompson-CSF ALTIS II laser designation pod was installed on PAF F-16's with US permission. This means permission from US for SOM would be required also for use on F-16's ?

Secondly, although F-16's have taken part in extensive A2G Ops on western border, still PAF prioritizes them as front line Air Defence fighter. This could pertain that onus of future Air to Ground Ops could fall mostly on JF-17, apart from the obvious use of ROSE Mirages. Another reason for extensive use of F-16's Air strikes on western border could not only be because of their capabilities but also that JF-17 had just started to get inducted into PAF at that time. The saga of ALCM is limited to Mirages only. A new aircraft or a smaller version of Raád on JF-17 could enhance use of ALCM in PAF. An option that could be explored is to convert a transport plane (Y-8/Y-12/CN235 etc) as a test bed ALCM carrier in case Mirage fleet has to be grounded.

 

[Tps43]

@CriticalThought

Reply to comment: https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/paf-to-retire-the-f-7-fleet.598665/page-7#post-11128007

PAF F-16s lack ALCM capability, and there is no other option except SOM since the US will almost certainly refuse to sell cruise missiles to Pakistan. SOM is already certified for Turkish F-16s.

For JF-17, many weapons with stand-off ranges are available. The CM-400AKG (which PAF says is integrated to JF-17 but not in operational service) can be used in air-to-ground as well as anti-ship role. It is not a sea-skimming cruise missile, the missile's flight altitude exceeds the limits of most short-to-medium range SAM's and in the terminal phase, it dives towards the target at supersonic-hypersonic speeds, which reduces the probability of intercept.

Since No. 2 sqn is dedicated to the maritime strike role, C-802AK & CM-400AKG equipped JF-17s will act as a conventional deterrent against the enemy (until a platform like Su-35/J-16 is acquired). PAF F-16s don't have this role, which is evident from the Harpoon inventory, which is all held by PN.



@Tps43
Plz continue here.

I just saw ur post here now sorry for being late.
Usa would never allow pakistan to use F 16's in maritime role . But other then that I would certainly say F 16's are true multiroler AC for Paf and Paf used them in both a2g and a2a roles in wartimes and they were highly successful .
Rose mirages on the other hand are quite formidable ones esp one's from 25th and 27th sqn as they will carry N.weapon when and were need arises plus they have complete night strike capibility . Your question regarding Mirages horus , my answer is maybe paf looking to replace non rose mirages with them but I dont see more then 2 sqn's being raised from them and paf is looking to buy 50 mirages in price of 0.5 F 16 , they can stick on for 10 years and maybe paf thinks by that time economic conditions would improve they can buy any other platform .
Although whatever I heard was mirages would be replaced by west origin AC and in case of war we will go for J 10's otherwise west origin AC.
Jf 17's a2g role is tested in north west region and they are infact great and Block 3 will have goodies with it which will make it a more formidable weapon system
F-7 PG have sucessfully intercepted and locked on eagle once and man what an interception it was , if I am not wrong AC was from 20 sqn . PG will serve us till the final AC induction of JFT block 3