Abhijit Iyer-Mitra and Pakistan Airforce related matters

[xeuss]

To an extent I agree, but India is a step ahead of us. I bet a good chunk that HAL and DRDO employ are surplus engineers and scientists who may have ended up leaving India. So, in India, they might have an overinflated base of manual labour plus a healthy 'middle layer' (engineers) plus a top-heavy executive.

While I don't know much about HAL and DRDO, but if hiring in other central institutes is an indicator, then the same can be expected of these organizations. Almost all hiring is now on a temporary and contract basis. Therefore, India does suffer from a brain drain because good qualified engineers and scientists cannot live their lives from contract to contract and decide to migrate abroad for better pastures. The result is that these organizations are stuck with legacy engineers and scientists that show little inclination to adapt to modern methods and technologies. Promotions at the top these days is largely not based on qualification, but more on other factors, usually the common culprits such connections related to caste, ethnicity etc.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

While I don't know much about HAL and DRDO, but if hiring in other central institutes is an indicator, then the same can be expected of these organizations. Almost all hiring is now on a temporary and contract basis. Therefore, India does suffer from a brain drain because good qualified engineers and scientists cannot live their lives from contract to contract and decide to migrate abroad for better pastures. The result is that these organizations are stuck with legacy engineers and scientists that show little inclination to adapt to modern methods and technologies. Promotions at the top these days is largely not based on qualification, but more on other factors, usually the common culprits such connections related to caste, ethnicity etc.

If this is the case, then it's a sign that India hasn't fully transitioned to 'First World Mentality.'

I don't mean to insult you guys, I think you're ahead of us Pakistanis, but you're at the upper crust of the same league, not yet in a totally different league.

If and when your institutions stop taking religion, caste, or other stuff (other than ROI metrics) into consideration, you'll break into superpower leagues. China's already working towards it by letting outsiders into TenCent et. al.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

We had a discussion in our organization some time back about deteriorating leadership crises in Pakistan. The panel discussed various issues like nepotism, dynastic politics, corruption, inexperience and incompetence and the census was that we have been choosing wrong people for the specific roles and their incompetence is costing us dearly. Among many issues we discussed, there was a striking element of Pakistanis being undisciplined and unsystematic in their approach and were always trying to find shortcuts for almost everything.

Sad but 100% true...........

 

[xeuss]

If this is the case, then it's a sign that India hasn't fully transitioned to 'First World Mentality.'

I don't mean to insult you guys, I think you're ahead of us Pakistanis, but you're at the upper crust of the same league, not yet in a totally different league.

If and when your institutions stop taking religion, caste, or other stuff (other than ROI metrics) into consideration, you'll break into superpower leagues. China's already working towards it by letting outsiders into TenCent et. al.

I don't think we will ever get there, but for other reasons.

I have several friends who work at Central govt institutes and PSUs. One common complaint from everyone (post-2014) is that these organizations are being deliberate weakened by the government. They cite several factors, but that is beyond the scope of this thread.

 

[spectregunship]

We had a discussion in our organization some time back about deteriorating leadership crises in Pakistan. The panel discussed various issues like nepotism, dynastic politics, corruption, inexperience and incompetence and the census was that we have been choosing wrong people for the specific roles and their incompetence is costing us dearly. Among many issues we discussed, there was a striking element of Pakistanis being undisciplined and unsystematic in their approach and were always trying to find shortcuts for almost everything.

I'm not sure which era you are talking about sir, but unfortunately, all this introspection and meaningful change management has slid down a hill in the past 3 to 4 years. Everything that is being done is either superficial or fizzles out midway with no end result being taken into account for any exercise / project implemented.

I agree with senior mods and members who point out poor leadership as responsible for this but I would also like to add that myopic and "vision-lessness" will take push things further into an abyss and nowhere else.

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

For how long I have spoken about the Japanese F2 a perfect example to have based he size of the JF17---.

 

[GriffinsRule]

Exactly. I can't understand how no one's asking why India's getting all of the FDI, even from China!

Guys, FFS...

...it isn't because our population's smaller (we're 200 million).

...it isn't because we have fewer educated people (we easily number 10 M+)

...it isn't because we lack a viable consumer base (20-30 M are easily there)

...it's because our leadership is trash. Simply put, we're not putting the right people in charge of our affairs, and so we're seeing huge structural problems that shouldn't actually exist.

The saying, "the rulers reflect the people" is true in as far as if the people don't take the top to task, the top won't change. Unfortunately, we -- as a people -- think like we're satisfied, yet our bodies tell us we are sick and hungry. It's time to listen to the body (i.e., the reality), and change our thinking.

I personally loved the days when we were fearful of the Su-30MKI. It forced us to think about RCS, to think about how BVR works, to think about how we can eliminate the advantages.

Unfortunately, today, I'm seeing kids on FB trying to sell us on Block-3 being better than Rafale. This, my friends, is the mentality that led India to think the MiG-21bis could take on F-16s -- why not ask Abhi how that went?

Lets not forget the people who also want to get rid of all existing F-16s and replace them with J-10s.

 

[GumNaam]

abhijit is visibly butthurt, you can sense the seething jealousy he has towards Pakistan is this video alone, I mean just listen to him, he says that Imran Khan is cocaine addict :

his sad admission that the indian air force is in fact doomed only worsens his butthurt.

 

[Saudang]

If this is the case, then it's a sign that India hasn't fully transitioned to 'First World Mentality.'

I don't mean to insult you guys, I think you're ahead of us Pakistanis, but you're at the upper crust of the same league, not yet in a totally different league.

If and when your institutions stop taking religion, caste, or other stuff (other than ROI metrics) into consideration, you'll break into superpower leagues. China's already working towards it by letting outsiders into TenCent et. al.

there are two types of India in play. the government PSUs, with total incompetency, lack of accountability and intend. these people have survived so far because there were no higher authority competent enough to question them..

then we have a highly successful corporate sector, who has been competing globally with the best. the moment L&T starts manufacturing tanks, or Bharat Forge is given contracts for howitzers, or Tata Advanced System gets contracts for fighters, we will move into a different league. there are buzz of that happening for many years, but we are moving towards the right direction slowly.

As a consultant, worked with many of these companies and I am very sure that they can transform the defense sector in India within a decade or so, if the right support and environment is there

 

[jupiter2007]

Indians may be incompetent but they are learning from their mistakes and improving. Our main problem is lack of leadership, economy, vision and clear future goals.

Lets not forget the people who also want to get rid of all existing F-16s and replace them with J-10s.

Well, if we can’t acquire newer F-16s, we will eventually have to replace Older F-16s with another plane. If that’s the case then most likely It will be J-35 or J-20.