A Question Abt AIP systems.....

[Umair Nawaz]

This documentary is abt how WW2 subs worked. And it says that while submerged its batteries take over from Engine generators to power its propellers. This can make a sub submerged for 12-24hrs depending upon the storage capacity of battery and air of a sub.

But then in modern subs where AIP systems are placed then how does it work with batteries and make the subs in case our PN's A-90Bs submerged for a week(168 hrs)?

How so? what it does different from the normal subs without AIPs and a Nuclear sub (who understandably run on Nuke Reactors and can stay submerged till crew dies inside).

BTW im a layman in submarine things and its warfare so excuse me for stupid question.

@Penguin @Neptune @Rashid Mahmood @Manticore @Capt.Popeye ???

 

[Umair Nawaz]

If there are more documentaries on submarines and their construction please suggest. Thanks.

 

[Rashid Mahmood]

The Agosta 90B class submarines can be equipped with a diesel-electric propulsion system or the MESMA air-independent propulsion system. The diesel-electric system consists of two SEMT-Pielstick 16 PA4 V 185 VG diesels providing 3,600hp and a 2,200kW electric motor driving a single propeller.

A diesel-electrical submarine has to surface to periscope depth to recharge the batteries using the diesel engine, leading to increased risk of detection. The MESMA air-independent propulsion system, being fitted to the Agosta 90B submarines for Pakistan, allows the submarine to remain submerged three times longer.

The MESMA system consists essentially of a turbine receiving high-pressure steam from a combustion chamber, burning a gaseous mixture of ethanol and liquid oxygen. The Agosta 90B's performance remains the same in all other respects, except that the length increases from 67m to 76m and submerged displacement from 1,760t to 2,050t.

 

[Umair Nawaz]

The MESMA system consists essentially of a turbine receiving high-pressure steam from a combustion chamber, burning a gaseous mixture of ethanol and liquid oxygen. The Agosta 90B's performance remains the same in all other respects, except that the length increases from 67m to 76m and submerged displacement from 1,760t to 2,050t.

Is this combustion chamber is fitted with AIP systems being installed or comes buildin system?
And it works independently from batteries if so then is it right to assume that the sub commander activates AIP system after his batteries die while remaining submerged?

 

[Indus Falcon]

The Agosta 90B class submarines can be equipped with a diesel-electric propulsion system or the MESMA air-independent propulsion system. The diesel-electric system consists of two SEMT-Pielstick 16 PA4 V 185 VG diesels providing 3,600hp and a 2,200kW electric motor driving a single propeller.

A diesel-electrical submarine has to surface to periscope depth to recharge the batteries using the diesel engine, leading to increased risk of detection. The MESMA air-independent propulsion system, being fitted to the Agosta 90B submarines for Pakistan, allows the submarine to remain submerged three times longer.

The MESMA system consists essentially of a turbine receiving high-pressure steam from a combustion chamber, burning a gaseous mixture of ethanol and liquid oxygen. The Agosta 90B's performance remains the same in all other respects, except that the length increases from 67m to 76m and submerged displacement from 1,760t to 2,050t.

The Chinese subs PN is planning to buy, is their AIP system better then MESMA, equal to it, or less capable than it?

 

[Rashid Mahmood]

Is this combustion chamber is fitted with AIP systems being installed or comes buildin system?
And it works independently from batteries if so then is it right to assume that the sub commander activates AIP system after his batteries die while remaining submerged?

The 160t AIP system, which measures 8.6m in length and 6.2m in diameter is integrated into the submarine.

The MESMA plug is a complete hull section that allows the vessel to remain submerged for over two weeks without having to surface to recharge its batteries.

The installation of MESMA does not affect the overall balance of the submarine and will significantly increase the range and endurance of conventionally powered submarines.

MESMA simultaneously supplies the ship and the propulsive system with electricity and recharges the batteries without surfacing.

MESMA consists of a combustion module supplied with liquid oxygen and fuel, and a steam production loop. The heat of the combustion gases is used to produce steam which supplies a turbo-generator.

MESMA extends the underwater endurance of a conventional submarine to more than 3 weeks. This significantly increases its range of action and improves its stealth in operation.

The Chinese subs PN is planning to buy, is their AIP system better then MESMA, equal to it, or less capable than it?

The exact name or classification of the AIP on Chinese boats is not available, however, it is probably based on the Stirling Cycle AIP system initially developed by the Swedish.

 

[Umair Nawaz]

T

The exact name or classification of the AIP on Chinese boats is not available, however, it is probably based on the Stirling Cycle AIP system initially developed by the Swedish.

why not install MESMA on chinese subs of PN?

 

[Rashid Mahmood]

why not install MESMA on chinese subs of PN?

That's for the PN to decide.

 

[Umair Nawaz]

That's for the PN to decide.

So these new AIP systems as good as MESMA which u described as best in the world at what they do?

 

[Rashid Mahmood]

So these new AIP systems as good as MESMA which u described as best in the world at what they do?

I have no information about the new AIP system.

 

[Umair Nawaz]

I have no information about the new AIP system.

Sir to be honest i dont think these new systems will be as good as MESMA and neither can we order more MESMAs because of obvious indian influence over french and then that A-90b engineering saga and all.

But what im interested is the MESMA engineering. This system is honestly to good to be not taken advantage of? We should open this thing and study each and everything it is in it. And then try to make a model of it and its technology by using our own resources, something like reverse engineering. Because French(indian factor) will already wont sell us them or any other defence equipment anyways so why still honor the contracts and user certificates.

 

[Rashid Mahmood]

Sir to be honest i dont think these new systems will be as good as MESMA and neither can we order more MESMAs because of obvious indian influence over french and then that A-90b engineering saga and all.

But what im interested is the MESMA engineering. This system is honestly to good to be not taken advantage of? We should open this thing and study each and everything it is in it. And then try to make a model of it and its technology by using our own resources, something like reverse engineering. Because French(indian factor) will already wont sell us them or any other defence equipment anyways so why still honor the contracts and user certificates.

Reverse engineering is not that easy. It requires tons of money, which is the main problem.
We haven't even managed to replicate a marine diesel engine yet.

 

[Armstrong]

That's for the PN to decide.

Rashid Bhai did we get the TOT for the Mesma's as well ?

 

[Rashid Mahmood]

Rashid Bhai did we get the TOT for the Mesma's as well ?

No.

 

[Armstrong]

No.

Lo Rashid Bhai phir what in heaven's name did we get when we signed the TOT for the Agosta 90Bs ?

If word on this forum is to believed - We can't even make more of them without French Input !