A Question Abt AIP systems.....

[Rashid Mahmood]

Lo Rashid Bhai phir what in heaven's name did we get when we signed the TOT for the Agosta 90Bs ?

If word on this forum is to believed - We can't even make more of them without French Input !

We can't.

 

[Armstrong]

We can't.

Good Lord - Why in heaven's name did we sign the Contract; what exactly did we get in return ?

I remember reading in some newspaper somewhere that the Agosta deals involved some kick-backs or something & that the Navy wanted something else (possibly the German ones) whereas the Government instead went for the Agosta because of kick-backs - Maybe there is some truth in that after all !

 

[Rashid Mahmood]

Good Lord - Why in heaven's name did we sign the Contract; what exactly did we get in return ?

I remember reading in some newspaper somewhere that the Agosta deals involved some kick-backs or something & that the Navy wanted something else (possibly the German ones) whereas the Government instead went for the Agosta because of kick-backs - Maybe there is some truth in that after all !

How do you think AAZ got so much money in swiss banks...

 

[Donatello]

why not install MESMA on chinese subs of PN?

The French as arrogant as they are, might not allow. While some technologies, like diesel engines, do make it to Chinese Military under the disguise of using on civilian projects, transfer of MESMA might be difficult, unless they see that good amount of money can be made, and/or that MESMA AIP would be installed in Pakistan voiding Chinese personal.

 

[Penguin]

testing 123

 

[Umair Nawaz]

How do you think AAZ got so much money in swiss banks...

AAZ??

The French as arrogant as they are, might not allow. While some technologies, like diesel engines, do make it to Chinese Military under the disguise of using on civilian projects, transfer of MESMA might be difficult, unless they see that good amount of money can be made, and/or that MESMA AIP would be installed in Pakistan voiding Chinese personal.

what u think abt post#11.

 

[Indus Falcon]

AAZ = Asif Ali Zardari

 

[500]

This documentary is abt how WW2 subs worked. And it says that while submerged its batteries take over from Engine generators to power its propellers. This can make a sub submerged for 12-24hrs depending upon the storage capacity of battery and air of a sub.

Thats at max speed (20 knots). At low speeds (3-4 knots) diesel electric sub can travel up to a week.

But then in modern subs where AIP systems are placed then how does it work with batteries and make the subs in case our PN's A-90Bs submerged for a week(168 hrs)?

How so?

AIP uses more effective systems than battery (Fuel cell, Stirling, MESMA).

what it does different from the normal subs without AIPs and a Nuclear sub (who understandably run on Nuke Reactors and can stay submerged till crew dies inside).

1) max speed of AIP propulsion is about 5 knots. Nuclear propulsion around 30 knots.
2) the endurance of AIP is couple weeks, nuclear - unlimited.

 

[Indus Falcon]

2) the endurance of AIP is couple weeks, nuclear - unlimited.

The endurance of a nuclear sub is limited NOT by it's propulsion system, but by the food it carries for it's crew.

 

[The SC]

The 160t AIP system, which measures 8.6m in length and 6.2m in diameter is integrated into the submarine.

The MESMA plug is a complete hull section that allows the vessel to remain submerged for over two weeks without having to surface to recharge its batteries.

The installation of MESMA does not affect the overall balance of the submarine and will significantly increase the range and endurance of conventionally powered submarines.

MESMA simultaneously supplies the ship and the propulsive system with electricity and recharges the batteries without surfacing.

MESMA consists of a combustion module supplied with liquid oxygen and fuel, and a steam production loop. The heat of the combustion gases is used to produce steam which supplies a turbo-generator.

MESMA extends the underwater endurance of a conventional submarine to more than 3 weeks. This significantly increases its range of action and improves its stealth in operation.

The exact name or classification of the AIP on Chinese boats is not available, however, it is probably based on the Stirling Cycle AIP system initially developed by the Swedish.

Pakistan is getting the Chinese Stirling Cycle AIP in their new Qing class All electric submarines.
China spent around a decade developing its own Stirling Cycle AIP, it has been tested and seems very good. It is one of the best AIP systems out there; Germany wanted to install its equally highly efficient Fuel Cells AIP system in the new Scandinavian Submarines it is building for Sweden or Norway, but was not allowed, the Scandinavians who are much experienced with the Stirling Cycle must know better. It seems that it is even quieter than fuel cells which is supposed to be extremely quite already.
MESMA is very good, but Pakistan won't need it for its new Submarines. That was the only part that came fully assembled from France, and constitutes the most sensitive element in the French Pakistani deal, So, I do not think that Pakistan had ToT for the MESMA too.

 

[Penguin]

testing 123

There are 4 kinds of basic non-nuclear AIP systems.
See [URL]http://www.navy.mil/navydata/cno/n87/usw/issue_13/propulsion.htm[/url]

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

Pakistan is getting the Chinese Stirling Cycle AIP in their new Qing class All electric submarines.
China spent around a decade developing its own Stirling Cycle AIP, it has been tested and seems very good. It is one of the best AIP systems out there; Germany wanted to install its equally highly efficient Fuel Cells AIP system in the new Scandinavian Submarines it is building for Sweden or Norway, but was not allowed, the Scandinavians who are much experienced with the Stirling Cycle must know better. It seems that it is even quieter than fuel cells which is supposed to be extremely quite already.
MESMA is very good, but Pakistan won't need it for its new Submarines. That was the only part that came fully assembled from France, and constitutes the most sensitive element in the French Pakistani deal, So, I do not think that Pakistan had ToT for the MESMA too.

Germany is not going to build any submarines for Sweden. That deal is off, and the order will go to SAAB,
using the Stirling Engine developed in Sweden.