A Muslim majority Indus Valley Civilization?

[SamantK]

No one could have said it better than yourself about yourself, it is a first step called self criticim steming from your most intimate thoughts, Bravo!

you don't even remember the names he took and to which country they belonged... No wonder you are confused who you are..

 

[The SC]

Is it that you can't read, or don't want to read?

How many times does the difference between political, geographical and cultural India have to be spelt out?

Political India is 65 years old (actually, closer to 300 years); geographical India dates from around 550 BC, and cultural India from 2500 BC or so.

Again, as already clearly explained, the IVC left no civilisational legacy. Its ownership is not in doubt; most of the prominent and well-known sites fall within the national territory of Pakistan. Its legacy is partly distributed among its genetic descendants, and the people who stay around the sites today. Not to the state, but two of the peoples of Pakistan. It is also distributed among all Dravidian language speakers, and among all who belong to cultural India.



Not a particular religions. That is loathsome, bigotry.

But I oppose ALL religion as cynically contrived deceptions of humanity. Let us agree to dîffer. There is no common meeting ground on that issue.

Hinduism is so confused and confusing, even to its Gurus.
So, if I was born in it, I would have rejected all religions and depicted them as deceptions of humanity too.
Add to it the confusion of Judeo-Christianity, with the known consequences and conclusions as you.
All this lives Islam intact, since it is simple and yet complete.
And from the pre-islamic religious experiences and misconducts, it was jealously preserved by the muslims as a testimony to religion and religious manipulations by the unbelievers.

So in a way you are right about it, but Islam goes further than that, it exposed it 1400 years ago and still does.
I am not saying that all Muslims are good representatives of Islam either, since they are only humans with all what the word implies, But Islam as such is imparallelled in simplicity, purity and benefits.

 

[Joe Shearer]

I do suggest you look up the meaning of "fanboy"
because it doesn't mean what you think it means.


I read the original statement, the one which you completely ignored the points and responded with

DUHHHH, OUR ARMY OF 500k SOLDIERS BEAT YOUR ARMY OF 40k!! INDIA NUMBER 1!!!!111one"

Then again, Your greatest moment in the last 1000 years was 71. If I had a history like yours, I would be bringing up 71 in every discussion too

I am using fanboy here deliberately as a substitute for a nastier description running longer than a word, that brings in elements of religious bigotry, of xenophobia, and of deliberate distortion of facts to prove one's own side superior.

We do not have to say anything about the wars fought; enough has been said by Asghar Khan, by Agha Amin and by other Pakistani military and civilian commentators. I suggest that you read the expert analysis of Pakistani authorities themselves before going into these pyrotechnics in public. It impresses no one, except possibly the hapless individual you seek to rescue.

No one could have said it better than yourself about yourself, it is a first step called self criticim steming from your most intimate thoughts, Bravo!

It is laughable that you find yourself so devoid of argument that you have to revert to a children's school yard tactic. Try harder. Perhaps by the time you read something other than journalism and popular stuff on the Internet, some bright ideas might occur to you. Till then, we now understand that when challenged, you will say that all the challenges are equally applicable to the other person. This is known as the 'tu quoque' argument, but you are using a particularly juvenile version. Perhaps you should be congratulated for achieving a known form of fallacy. By your usual religion-rooted standards, this is an advance.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Hinduism is so confused and confusing, even to its Gurus.
So, if I was born in it, I would have rejected all religions and depicted them as deceptions of humanity too.
Add to it the confusion of Judeo-Christianity, with the known consequences and conclusions as you.
All this lives Islam intact, since it is simple and yet complete.
And from the pre-islamic religious experiences and misconducts, it was jealously preserved by the muslims as a testimony to religion and religious manipulations by the unbelievers.

So in a way you are right about it, but Islam goes further than that, it exposed it 1400 years ago and still does.
I am not saying that all Muslims are good representatives of Islam either, since they are only humans with all what the word implies, But Islam as such is imparallelled in simplicity, purity and benefits.

Hinduism is a refined and intellectually demanding collection of philosophical investigations, conducted at a time when the Semitic Abrahamic religions were busy measuring their enemies against cart-wheels to decide which males should be left alive and which slaughtered. It is, at the same time, an amalgam of folk practices that allows simple, plain folk to relate to the divine in ways that relate to their daily life, and to celebrate the divine in practices that reflect their natural surroundings, the fertile sub-continent. In contrast with the Abrahamic religions, it is not rigid, but allows a wide variety of practice in daily life, and a wide variety of amelioratives with which to overcome transgression.

I don't believe in this or any other religion, for philosophical reasons. It has nothing to do with the nature of Hinduism per se.

As it happens, I have an above average understanding of Christianity as well. I choose to discard it for the same reasons that I reject Hinduism. Or Sikhism, or Jewish faith, or Islam.

I admit to difficulty in rejecting Buddhism or Jainism, because they do not impose a ridiculous concept on an individual, but dwell in the philosophy of the self, the soul and of salvation.

You will never understand what I have written, and I write it as an obligation to myself, to my chosen stance as student and seeker, and I do not hope to see a decrease in your bigotry and narrow prejudice. Until you try to understand, you will never understand another point of view, and your trouble is that you are trapped in your self-righteous conviction that nothing that you don't know already matters.

I genuinely feel sorry for you.

 

[scorpionx]

Hinduism is so confused and confusing, even to its Gurus.
So, if I was born in it, I would have rejected all religions and depicted them as deceptions of humanity too.

Hinduism is not confused or confusing untill and unless you try to understand it with open heart. if you go through the ancient texts of hinduism you will find the first outpourings of human mind, the richness and eloquence of one's expression about the world.And then comes the upanishads, though having many ambiguities it helps to understand the basic foundation of this great philosophy, which tells us every creature in this world are part of a single divine power.

 

[The SC]

Abrahamic religions or brahmanic ones Hindus couldn't pronounce the word so they said it in reverse and made of it a religion and a practice, see other threads about it.

Islam dwell in the philosophy of the self, the soul and of salvation in relation to the creator as the original Abrahamic religions did.

so I think your last paragraph stems from your ignorance and applies to you more than to anyone else.

Please don't cry on me, with your self pity.

 

[The SC]

Hinduism is not confused or confusing untill and unless you try to understand it with open heart. if you go through the ancient texts of hinduism you will find the first outpourings of human mind, the richness and eloquence of one's expression about the world.And then comes the upanishads, though having many ambiguities it helps to understand the basic foundation of this great philosophy, which tells us every creature in this world are part of a single divine power.

I do understand your point of view, it is beautiful in thought and essence, but it is not intended for the common humans (99%), It is Idealistic and not very practical, and like you say, I would rather put it in the philosophy category than the religion's one.
By the way I did study hinduism, The Upanishads, the Bhagavat Gita and much more, but couldn't find it as simple and complete in scoop as Islam, witch addresses all human concerns (the earthly ones) and relate them to the divine ones naturally and in all simplicity stating by that that all things are related to each other and ultimately to their creator.
Which all the other religions attempted to do with no avail, since they inherently exclude, prevent or manipulate the common people from understanding. This is the main reason why there are no Gurus, priests or Rabbies in Islam.
It is first of all an individual endeavour, reflecting on society, and than a social one...

 

[scorpionx]

"If an ancient Indian of the time of the Upanishad,of the Buddha,or the later classical age were to be set down in modern india...he would see his race clinging to forms and shells and rags of the past and missing nine-tenths of its nobler meaning...he would be amazed by the extent of the mental poverty,the immobility,the static repetition,the cessation of science,the long sterility of art,the comparative feebleness of the creative intuition."_Aurobindo Ghose

 

[Joe Shearer]

I do understand your point of view, it is beautiful in thought and essence, but it is not intended for the common humans (99%), It is Idealistic and not very practical, and like you say, I would rather put it in the philosophy category than the religion's one.
By the way I did study hinduism, The Upanishads, the Bhagavat Gita and much more, but couldn't find it as simple and complete in scoop as Islam, witch addresses all human concerns (the earthly ones) and relate them to the divine ones naturally and in all simplicity stating by that that all things are related to each other and ultimately to their creator.
Which all the other religions attempted to do with no avail, since they inherently exclude, prevent or manipulate the common people from understanding. This is the main reason why there are no Gurus, priests or Rabbies in Islam.
It is first of all an individual endeavour, reflecting on society, and than a social one...

And Mullah Diesel and the Tooth Fairy are both figments of our collective imagination.

 

[Vibs]

I do understand your point of view, it is beautiful in thought and essence, but it is not intended for the common humans (99%), It is Idealistic and not very practical, and like you say, I would rather put it in the philosophy category than the religion's one.
By the way I did study hinduism, The Upanishads, the Bhagavat Gita and much more, but couldn't find it as simple and complete in scoop as Islam, witch addresses all human concerns (the earthly ones) and relate them to the divine ones naturally and in all simplicity stating by that that all things are related to each other and ultimately to their creator.
Which all the other religions attempted to do with no avail, since they inherently exclude, prevent or manipulate the common people from understanding. This is the main reason why there are no Gurus, priests or Rabbies in Islam.
It is first of all an individual endeavour, reflecting on society, and than a social one...

Let me get this straight. You read the Bhagwad Gita, the one religious book which people around the world (including Robert Openheimer inventor of the Atom Bomb) referred to as a philosophical guide to modern day living with no compulsion to be a practicing Hindu and you still believe it does not encompass or address human concerns?

No comments on your analysis of Islam but I sense some serious prejudice here.

 

[asad71]

Historical_Atlas_of_Central_Asia__2008.pdf (11.67 MB, 1 views)




Historical_Atlas_of_Central_Asia__2008.pdf
http://www.******************/attachment.php?attachmentid=7643&d=1341520312

 

[notsuperstitious]

This identity crisis must stop. The answer is not one polemic after another or even more mental gymnastics. Get over this silliness, which will find a sympathetic hearing only in a group meeting of ''identity crisis anonymous''.

 

[reformistani]

do bangladeshis get any credit for this victory of 71 ? or is it just india's mop duty in 55:1 heroics? you couldn't protect 1/3rd of kashmir on your border...

our martial races have kicked the **** out of your for centuries.

The word pathan still strikes terror in your peninsular indian heart. We have 35 million.

The baloch kicked the **** out of you.

beating so severe, you descendants have marks on your back sides...

don't respond.

i am here to talk to pakistanis. if i wanted to talk to indians i would go on every single pakistani newspaper... where you obsess over us.
l

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

This identity crisis must stop. The answer is not one polemic after another or even more mental gymnastics. Get over this silliness, which will find a sympathetic hearing only in a group meeting of ''identity crisis anonymous''.

Please stop ur mental masterbation... and read my signature... if you have the iq to comprehend what it means.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Ah, our Knight of the Toilet Roll returns for another deep movement.

do bangladeshis get any credit for this victory of 71 ?

Why wouldn't they? Heck, everyone is welcome. It isn't every day of the week that a swaggering bully is put in his place.

or is it just india's mop duty in 55:1 heroics?

Just curiousity. This never occured to you when it was an entire unarmed population against your guns?

And it never occurs to you when you goose-step through Baluchistan?

You only think about it when you get whipped, do you? Remember the saying about being able to hand it out, but not being able to take it?

you couldn't protect 1/3rd of kashmir on your border...

I humbly admit that we were guilty of poor tactics. We failed to

# moving into a state which had asked for and obtained our permission for time to decide whom to join;
# using armed thugs to attack a lightly armed state (some Knight of the Toilet was braying about 55:1 ratios; only when it hits you, not when you do it to unarmed men and women, that's the rule, right?);
# using murder, rape and abduction as methods of waging war (that's where the habit started, is it?);

There is much to learn from you martial races.

our martial races have kicked the **** out of your for centuries.

Ah, the martial races.....so sad they went away to the planet Mars, leaving some bits and pieces behind.

The word pathan still strikes terror in your peninsular indian heart. We have 35 million.

Pathan as in Niazi? Truly terrifying. Imagine a clown like him in charge of a platoon, and you bozos give these types divisions and army corps to handle! Your only good generals have been Ahmediyyas, and with the greatest of élan, you have emasculated yourselves by treating them like sub-humans.

Have you noticed that your 35 million don't exactly like you very much? Have you checked the casualty figures lately?

The baloch kicked the **** out of you.

Thank you for paying them back in their own coin on our behalf. With you as enemies, who needs friends?

beating so severe, you descendants have marks on your back sides...

An intimate question for you - you seem to be awfully familiar with our backsides. Aren't you taking this Knight of the Toilet Roll business a little too seriously?

don't respond.

Sure, massa. Us darkies aim to please. You please to aim. It's falling all over the place something dreadful.

i am here to talk to pakistanis. if i wanted to talk to indians i would go on every single pakistani newspaper... where you obsejss over us.
l

A piece of advice for you. It's free, so listen up, carefully.

If you want to talk to A, don't keep addressing B. If you want to talk to Pakistanis, address Pakistanis. Don't get obsessive about Indians.