A Muslim majority Indus Valley Civilization?

[p(-)0ENiX]

The dispute was over vocabulary, lingua franca is still the same. It was the dispute of Hindus or Muslims of North India, did you ever saw such dispute among Sindhis or Bengalis or Punjabis(except Gurumukhi vs Shahmukhi).

Did the people who develop Urdu claim it as belonging to everyone in the Sub-Continent?

How come Muslims of UP or Delhi preferring Urdu and Hindus Hindi made Urdu the language of Punjabis Muslims or Bengali Muslims or Tamil Muslims.

If Urdu was chosen as the language of the Muslims of the Sub-Continent, then all Muslims have some claim over it. The question is, wasn't it the collective Muslims of the Sub-Continent that chose that language for themselves?

You had your own choice with Sikhs over Shakmukhi Script doesn't mean that West Punjabi and poems of Bulleh Shah became heritage of all Muslims of subcontinent.

You are referring to the fact that Pakistani & Indian Punjabi use a different script right? Who cares?

As for the poet you referred to, the example you gave isn't good. As far as I know, he was a Punjabi poet, thus all the people of Punjab even from the Indian portion of Punjab have some claim to it.

Some Muslims might take pride in the fact that the poet was a Muslim, but this does not mean that they have claimed the Punjabi heritage.

The Arab invaders forced the people to disown their own language like Coptic or Tamazhiq and start speaking Arabic.

So from your perspective, Arabic isn't the language of the Egyptians?

 

[The SC]

LOL at "Standard Arabic of Saudi Arabia"...how long has Arabia been Saudi?! Modern Standard Arabic isn't even spoken colloquially in the Arabian peninsula. True that many Arabic dialectics have parts that are mutually unintelligible. So they speak whatever dialect they speak, and learn MSA at school. It's a non-issue for us because Arabic-speakers don't make an issue out of it.

To confirm what you say, an immersion of any Arab in any other Arab country of less than a few months, will have him fully adjusting his tongue.
For an Indian it will take a few years just to pronounce a few Arabic words with an accent on top of it.

 

[The SC]

@ Gigawatt

please do not Wright false information to show your bias and ignorance of facts and realities about the Muslims and the Arab Muslims in particular.

Some People in north Africa the Berbers still speak Tamazight now a days, and besides that, they have originated in Tamazigh, a dwelling that existed in Yemen, yet another Arabic place, so it was an ancient dialect from southern Arabia.

 

[INDIC]

Did the people who develop Urdu claim it as belonging to everyone in the Sub-Continent?

nobody said like that it was a language evolution for which Punjabis and Sindhis had no participation.

If Urdu was chosen as the language of the Muslims of the Sub-Continent, then all Muslims have some claim over it. The question is, wasn't it the collective Muslims of the Sub-Continent that chose that language for themselves?

It was campaigned by Muslim league. But many Muslim groups from subcontinent who don't see Urdu as the language of the Muslims of subcontinent.

So from your perspective, Arabic isn't the language of the Egyptians?

Coptic Language was the last state of extinct Egyptian language. But since Arabic is the sacred langauge of Quran, it is the language of all Muslims. But how come Urdu be associated with Punjabis or Sindhis who had no contribution in evolution of Urdu.


how can you start calling Urdu as a language of all subcontinent Muslims when Pakistanis, Bangladeshis or South Indians has no contribution in language evolution at the same time saying Indians don't have claim of IVC even India has many important sites of IVC.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

The English word "you' can be used as singular OR plural....
Here by saying "you", I wasn't referring to you individually....I used it in a Plural sense...



Ha Ha....how can you kill your own forefather.......you didn't get my logic as you thought I was referring to you individually...

What I tried to explain was......

Firstly, IF you claim to be descendants of the IVC people then you have to keep in mind that the followers of the religion you are following killed your non-Muslim ancestors....
Now, everyone cannot be killed.....your ancestor might have been among the lucky ones escaped.....this explains your existence....

Secondly, IF you DO NOT claim to be descendants of the IVC people, then your ancestors(Persians, Moghuls etc) were directly involved in killing the IVC people.......this again explains your existence....

Either way, you cannot claim the achievements of IVC.....
In the First case...you have adopted a religion whose followers killed your ancestors and destroyed IVC.....
In the Second case....you ancestors were among the killers of the IVC people...


P.S: all 'you' and 'your' used above are in PLURAL sense.......

^^
100% Garbage !!!

Answer the following questions?

Q1.
Modern Greeks are Orthodox Christians.
Were Ancient Greeks also Orthodox Christian?

Q2.
Modern Egyptians [Misr] are Muslim.
Were Ancient Egyptians Muslim also?

Q3.
Modern Egyptians speak Arabic.
Did Ancient Egyptians also speak Arabic?

Q4.
British Isles were raided regularly by Vikings who raped and plundered the native Britons.
Why do the British today celebrate their Viking heritage?

Q5.
Ancient Briton had Celts and Angles living.
They were invaded by savages from Germany called Saxons.
That led to the modern people of Britain, the Anglo Saxons.
How come they British today are quite happy to accept their mixed Celtic-Angles-Viking-Saxon heritage when all others besides
the Celts came as invaders and plunderers?

If you first answer these questions you will see there is nothing contradictory about modern Pakistani's accepting their past heritage in it's entirety.

Unless you think the Indus Valley heritage belongs to the Eskimo's or wait ...... Indian's. How very friggin convenient. So some swampo from Tamil Nadu can take pride.

The gall of you guy's ... Just beyond bloody belief !!!

*
Check out the Jorvik Viking Centre. These vikings raped, plundered and murdered en masse Ancient Britons, Today the British have a centre dedicated to the Viking's because they are mature and realize that ugly it might be, but Viking are part of their past and in their bloodline.

http://www.jorvik-viking-centre.co.uk/

 

[INDIC]

Unless you think the Indus Valley heritage belongs to the Eskimo's or wait ...... Indian's. How very friggin convenient. So some swampo from Tamil Nadu can take pride.

Can you explain why Pakistanis take pride in Tipu Sultan of South India the history of Tamils and Kannada people.

You guys are even dying to name your missile on Tipu Sultan and every textbook teaches Pakistanis about Mir Sadiq when you people don't associate yourself with South Indians.

 

[BelligerentPacifist]

There is at least one Indian and one Pakistani on this thread that need to be given a vacation.

 

[INDIC]

Answer the following questions?

Q1.
Modern Greeks are Orthodox Christians.
Were Ancient Greeks also Orthodox Christian?

Q2.
Modern Egyptians [Misr] are Muslim.
Were Ancient Egyptians Muslim also?

Q3.
Modern Egyptians speak Arabic.
Did Ancient Egyptians also speak Arabic?

Q4.
British Isles were raided regularly by Vikings who raped and plundered the native Britons.
Why do the British today celebrate their Viking heritage?

Do Pakistanis think same about Mauryas and Guptas.

 

[p(-)0ENiX]

nobody said like that it was a language evolution for which Punjabis and Sindhis had no participation.

Yeah, & who cares? They are still going to keep claiming it. Can you stop them? Go ahead & try.

It was campaigned by Muslim league. But many Muslim groups from subcontinent who don't see Urdu as the language of the Muslims of subcontinent.

So just because some Muslims don't see it as their language means that it must be rejected by all. The Muslim league represented the Muslims of the Sub-Continent, by calling Urdu as the language of Muslims, it's obvious that most Muslims from Uttar Pradesh would not have had any problems with it. Is there any proof to the contrary?

Coptic Language was the last state of extinct Egyptian language. But since Arabic is the sacred langauge of Quran, it is the language of all Muslims. But how come Urdu be associated with Punjabis or Sindhis who had no contribution in evolution of Urdu.

I already know about the Coptic language. Let me correct you, Arabic is the religious language of all Muslims, does it mean it's their mother tongue too? Don't you reject the idea that the mother tongue of the North Africans is Arabic? Why do you think it is so wrong for a person to adopt another language as his or her own? It does not give them a 100% claim over it, but what is the problem here?

how can you start calling Urdu as a language of all subcontinent Muslims when Pakistanis, Bangladeshis or South Indians has no contribution in language evolution at the same time saying Indians don't have claim of IVC even India has many important sites of IVC.

Have you read my previous posts? All of India does not have any claim to the IVC whatsoever. The only people in India that can claim IVC are those that have ancestry in Pakistan or those that originate from the Western portions of India that were once geographically part of the IVC. The rest of India has nothing to do with the IVC.

I did not say Urdu is the language of all the Muslims of the Sub-Continent. I said that if it was chosen as a language for Muslims, then alone do all Muslims of the Sub-Continent have a claim over it. Do not confuse or intentionally misinterpret someone else's words. Saying that others do not have a contribution to Urdu is incorrect & false, don't you remember Allama Iqbal's poetry that is in Urdu & even Persian?

Anyway, I am tired of this discussion. I won't be replying for sometime.

 

[INDIC]

Yeah, & who cares? They are still going to keep claiming it. Can you stop them? Go ahead & try.

Same goes with you can you stop us from claiming IVC when many of our current cultural values like Yoga are directly related to IVC, we have large part of IVC in India as far as Saharanpur in UP and there is a huge population of Sindhis and West Punjabis who migrated to India.

You can keep on weeping and we will keep on taking pride in IVC. The truth is majority Pakistani take pride in IVC, you are here to piss off Indians to get answer for your identity crisis.

 

[p(-)0ENiX]

Sam goes with you can you stop us from claiming IVC when many of our current cultural values like Yoga are directly related to IVC, we have large part of IVC in India as far as Saharanpur in UP and there is a huge population of Sindhis and West Punjabis who migrated to India.

I am not trying to stop every Indian from claiming the IVC. Those that descend from what is now Pakistan or those that descend from the Western regions of India that were previously part of the IVC can claim the IVC as their heritage. The rest of India cannot. How many damn times do I have to repeat this? Can't you read? You keep repeating the same things over & over & you just won't give this argument a rest.

By the way, cultural practices do not give you a claim over a a civilization. Yoga as in the exercise is even performed in the western world, that does not mean that they have claim over the IVC either.

 

[INDIC]

Have you read my previous posts? All of India does not have any claim to the IVC whatsoever. The only people in India that can claim IVC are those that have ancestry in Pakistan or those that originate from the Western portions of India that were once geographically part of the IVC. The rest of India has nothing to do with the IVC.

So, Sindhis and Baloch should also have no claim on Gandhara civilization if your logic is applied.

 

[p(-)0ENiX]

You can keep on weeping and we will keep on taking pride in IVC. The truth is majority Pakistani take pride in IVC, you are here to piss off Indians to get answer for your identity crisis.

I am not weeping, but you sure are crying rivers of blood & tears aren't you? I am not here to piss of dumb Indians, I opened this thread for Pakistanis to comment on & discuss the problems facing our country. You are an uninvited guest, so you may get lost. I frankly do not care.

So, Sindhis and Baloch should also have no claim on Gandhara civilization if your logic is applied.

Sindhis & Balochis can claim the Gandhara civilization as a part of the history of their country, but they can not claim it as their own.

 

[INDIC]

I am not trying to stop every Indian from claiming the IVC. Those that descend from what is now Pakistan or those that descend from the Western regions of India that were previously part of the IVC can claim the IVC as their heritage. The rest of India cannot. How many damn times do I have to repeat this? Can't you read? You keep repeating the same things over & over & you just won't give this argument a rest.

By the way, cultural practices do not give you a claim over a a civilization. Yoga as in the exercise is even performed in the western world, that does not mean that they have claim over the IVC either.

Wow!!! You guys will claim each and every Islamic history from our present geographical area and teaching us to follow opposite of that.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Do Pakistanis think same about Mauryas and Guptas.

No. Neither did the British 100 years ago. Around the time of WW1 [1914-18] they did not go around spouting their Saxon link with the Germans - Saxons were a Germanic tribe. It comes with maturity. Even now amongst thye educated [minus the religious fanatics] most Pakistan will acept the Mauryas and Guptas. After they only occupied a very small space in the 5,000 years time continuum.

Somebody mentioned about Tipu sultan etc. I would agree 100% about this. When I first found out that Tipu was from Mysore I thought what in god's name has he got do with Pakistan. The guy never sat his foot in Pakistan. I think Tipu etc ended up in Pakistan via the 'Mohajir' community who of course came from all over India.

Even now despite their minority status wield significant influence but in the formative years of Pakistan, 1947-57 the Mohajir's almost had total monopoly and it was during this time Tipu etc ended up in Pakistan history books. They got to draw the blueprint lot of which does not sit well with the natives of the Indus Valley ~ Punjabi, Pashtun, Sindhi, Balochi etc.

I would like to add another question to the list in my previous post #350.

Q6.
There was the mighty Roman Empire in the past spread over three continents.
Italy is a new name and a new creation that came into existance about 120 years ago.
So there was no Italy pre 1880 yet Italy is today without a doubt the inheritor of Ancient Rome.
So how is it that Roman Catholic Italians [when the Romans crucified the founder of Christianity] today claim Roman Empire?