A call for Pakistani Unity

[Trango Towers]

I am happy that you are happy my friend. We can take this discussion to another thread, as the topic of this thread is about 'Pakistan Nationalism'.

Have a nice day. Don't think that I think all Indians are bad.

 

[Goritoes]

Pakistan ITSELF is an "Ummah".

Nope, you don't understand the concept of Ummah, every Muslim is a brother to another Muslim, it doesn't matter how different one looks, speaks what language, or lives in whatever region. The moment you took your oath, you joined a community of 1.8 billion Muslims around the world, either you take pride in that or leave it but be it on one side, this confusion of identity and ideology to where Pakistan stands will be more dangerous to Pakistan and its people in the longer run.

Hubbul Watani is part of creed.

Muslims are expected to even not follow their parents when it comes to forceful impositions which a person may judge to be unislamic. This goes beyond the practice of rituals and into the territory of way or ways of life.

Pakistani Nationalism is akin to an Ijtehad undertaken by the Muslimeens.

Yeah but Pakistan's are a Part of the overall Islamic community, Islam doesn't revolve around Pakistan and it definitely doesn't need Pakistani's within its circles, Islam needs no one the religion, and its system will prevail with or without Pakistan or its people, make sure you are on the right side of history when its rewritten, and trust me it will cause God has its own plans for Muslims.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

Nope, you don't understand the concept of Ummah, every Muslim is a brother to another Muslim, it doesn't matter how different one looks, speaks what language, or lives in whatever region. The moment you took your oath, you joined a community of 1.8 billion Muslims around the world, either you take pride in that or leave it but be it on one side, this confusion of identity and ideology to where Pakistan stands will be more dangerous to Pakistan and its people in the longer run.


Yeah but Pakistan's are a Part of the overall Islamic community, Islam doesn't revolve around Pakistan and it definitely doesn't need Pakistani's within its circles, Islam needs no one the religion, and its system will prevail with or without Pakistan or its people, make sure you are on the right side of history when its rewritten, and trust me it will cause God has its own plans for Muslims.

Will a stronger or weaker Pakistan benefit the Ummah?

 

[Goritoes]

Will a stronger or weaker Pakistan benefit the Ummah?

Hmmm, that is an interesting question, Well it depends on Profit to Ummah you mean what exactly? if you mean that with Pakistan actually Part of the ummah which was prescribed by the Prophet and how things are supposed to go down in the future, then to an extent yes it will but if Pakistan is out of Ummah then it will not hurt anything to the larger Islamic community, as I said Islam is far far bigger than one country or multiple nations, Islam is within itself a nation, a religion, a political and social system and it unite People from across the border while the nationalism contains the people from a certain border and teaches about their loyalties should be with their country and not with the larger Muslim community.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

Hmmm, that is an interesting question, Well it depends on Profit to Ummah you mean what exactly? if you mean that with Pakistan actually Part of the ummah which was prescribed by the Prophet and how things are supposed to go down in the future, then to an extent yes it will but if Pakistan is out of Ummah then it will not hurt anything to the larger Islamic community, as I said Islam is far far bigger than one country or multiple nations, Islam is within itself a nation, a religion, a political and social system and it unite People from across the border while the nationalism contains the people from a certain border and teaches about their loyalties should be with their country and not with the larger Muslim community.

What do you do when non-Pakistani Muslims are against the idea of the Ummah? What do you do when non-Pakistani Muslims have NO LOYALTY, empathy or feeling of brotherhood with Pakistani Muslims?

 

[Goritoes]

What do you do when non-Pakistani Muslims are against the idea of the Ummah? What do you do when non-Pakistani Muslims have NO LOYALTY, empathy or feeling of brotherhood with Pakistani Muslims?

You do what you are told by Prophet, just because a Non-Pakistani is doing something wrong or against the Prophet and teaching doesn't mean you have to follow their route as well, yes people are against the concept because they were indoctrinated for centuries about fending for themselves, or the fear of death was embedded within their hearts, material stuff, Power , women, and money corrupts the minds and hearts of people and Leadership hence you see the fall, unity is the only solution for Muslims to have some sort of say in world politics, if they want the world to hear them they have to join their voices, even Allama Iqbal knows and understand this, that is why he said " United we Stand, Divided we Fall ", Also we can't even say that we haven't seen a successful model of unity among the people makes them stronger, Europe is right infront of us, Powerful they are as long as they are united as a Union the moment they start to leave the union they will be open to many threats from the Power hungry people across the world.

Pakistan has potential, no doubt it that, they can lead, help, and even make themselves heard in the world if they want to, but when you are weak and constantly bombarded by enemies from all sides, and World Powers trying their best to weaken you, turn you into a pile of rumble, further Isolating yourself within your borders and promote nationalism will give you a false sense of power and strength, even Nationalism once get out of hand can destroy a country, as we saw with Italy and Germany in the 20th Century, Look what happens in America in last 4 years of Trump, Nationalism turned into White Supremacy and it hurts the Fundamental Idea of America which it was founded upon, and when the heavy minds realized that they vote Trump out of office before that blind nationalism, fake patriotism and entangled with White Supremacy took them on a self-destructive path. Look at Arabs of today, you think they are doing good? their countries might look good financially and so on but all of it is because they are towing in the line giving to them by US/Israel the moment they try to make an independent foreign Policy, suddenly nationalist voices start to rise, rioting breaks out, calls for reforms turn deadly and you have a civil war that leaves the country into pieces, Syria and Libya are prime examples of it, KSA UAE QATAR all of these countries are housing American troops for their security, if they are so Powerful militarily and financially why they need American troops and technology, Yes they are scared and they have no choice now, they can not even ask Americans to leave now, this is what happens when you try to fend for yourself and isolate yourself from others.

We Muslims should be thankful that Allah provided us with such amazing guideline and religion which tells us how to live, behave, conduct our business, politics, and Military and it all connects our worldly gains to the spiritual gains which every Muslim try to reach within its life, but we abuse, forgets and completely disregard our religion, our laws hence we are nothing when it comes to the worldly affairs.


“We were the most humiliated people on earth and God gave us honour through Islam. If we ever seek honour through anything else, God will humiliate us again.”
― Umar ibn Al-Khattab

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

You do what you are told by Prophet, just because a Non-Pakistani is doing something wrong or against the Prophet and teaching doesn't mean you have to follow their route as well, yes people are against the concept because they were indoctrinated for centuries about fending for themselves, or the fear of death was embedded within their hearts, material stuff, Power , women, and money corrupts the minds and hearts of people and Leadership hence you see the fall, unity is the only solution for Muslims to have some sort of say in world politics, if they want the world to hear them they have to join their voices, even Allama Iqbal knows and understand this, that is why he said " United we Stand, Divided we Fall ", Also we can't even say that we haven't seen a successful model of unity among the people makes them stronger, Europe is right infront of us, Powerful they are as long as they are united as a Union the moment they start to leave the union they will be open to many threats from the Power hungry people across the world.

Pakistan has potential, no doubt it that, they can lead, help, and even make themselves heard in the world if they want to, but when you are weak and constantly bombarded by enemies from all sides, and World Powers trying their best to weaken you, turn you into a pile of rumble, further Isolating yourself within your borders and promote nationalism will give you a false sense of power and strength, even Nationalism once get out of hand can destroy a country, as we saw with Italy and Germany in the 20th Century, Look what happens in America in last 4 years of Trump, Nationalism turned into White Supremacy and it hurts the Fundamental Idea of America which it was founded upon, and when the heavy minds realized that they vote Trump out of office before that blind nationalism, fake patriotism and entangled with White Supremacy took them on a self-destructive path. Look at Arabs of today, you think they are doing good? their countries might look good financially and so on but all of it is because they are towing in the line giving to them by US/Israel the moment they try to make an independent foreign Policy, suddenly nationalist voices start to rise, rioting breaks out, calls for reforms turn deadly and you have a civil war that leaves the country into pieces, Syria and Libya are prime examples of it, KSA UAE QATAR all of these countries are housing American troops for their security, if they are so Powerful militarily and financially why they need American troops and technology, Yes they are scared and they have no choice now, they can not even ask Americans to leave now, this is what happens when you try to fend for yourself and isolate yourself from others.

We Muslims should be thankful that Allah provided us with such amazing guideline and religion which tells us how to live, behave, conduct our business, politics, and Military and it all connects our worldly gains to the spiritual gains which every Muslim try to reach within its life, but we abuse, forgets and completely disregard our religion, our laws hence we are nothing when it comes to the worldly affairs.


“We were the most humiliated people on earth and God gave us honour through Islam. If we ever seek honour through anything else, God will humiliate us again.”
― Umar ibn Al-Khattab

So what are you suggesting? That if we start worrying about non-Pakistani Muslims then everything in Pakistan will be okay?

 

[Goritoes]

So what are you suggesting? That if we start worrying about non-Pakistani Muslims then everything in Pakistan will be okay?

Honestly, I am no qualified to give any suggestions, and the plan Allah put in motion will take its course, whether we like it or not, whether we are on board or not, Pakistani needs to decide for themselves, they have this right upon their country, and no one else should determine their way and future, my whole Argument is that Nationalism is not going to be good for Pakistan but that is just my opinion wrt to Islam which I explained in the last couple of posts but at the end of the day, its the People/Politicians and Military leadership who will have to decide if they want to go towards a more nationalistic approach.

As for the worrying part, Remember what Prophet said " If you see something wrong try to stop it by hand, if you cannot do it then say its wrong, and if you are unable to do that either then at least believe its wrong in your heart, and that is the least level of Iman for you.

 

[Musalman]

I don't care if you are Religious, UNReligious, Right-Wing, Left-Wing, Liberal or Conservative. I don't care if you don't have a religion, what you believe in or what ethnicity you are. I don't care about ANY of that. The MOST important thing is Pakistani Nationalism and Unity. It is Sacrosanct. I want to see Pakistani Mullahs embracing Left-Wing Pakistani liberals just like the ultra-orthodox Jews embrace left-wing liberal Jews in Israel. We all NEED to love eachother and fight for a better and more prosperous Pakistan. That is the ONLY thing that matters. We have NOBODY else but ourselves. To hell with the rest.

This is a call for Pakistani Unity. This is a call for ALL Pakistanis to love respect eachother. Let us go forward together.

Do we have left wing, right wing and liberals in Pakistan?

 

[fitpOsitive]

@fitpOsitive what term do you think is good?
Is Urdu-speakers a good term as any? over time, has it become entrenched? or do you have other ideas?

It's actually a good discussion and in keeping with the topic in the thread.

Pakistani will be best. For me, it's a useless debate that who should be called what. Are people of Pakistan really working with honesty? Are people getting justice? Do people feel safe?
After all that is achieved, we are ready to be called monkeys. Doesn't really matter what people call us. We will either prove ourselves, or we will vanish. Simple.

 

[El Sidd]

Yeah but Pakistan's are a Part of the overall Islamic community, Islam doesn't revolve around Pakistan and it definitely doesn't need Pakistani's within its circles, Islam needs no one the religion, and its system will prevail with or without Pakistan or its people, make sure you are on the right side of history when its rewritten, and trust me it will cause God has its own plans for Muslims.

Butt Sahab no one is asking you to worship the state. They are just asking you to worship Allah by dedication of application of golden principles of success within the confines of a nation state, watan.

Did thy Lord not make unto thee Nations as His sign so you may knoweth thy wisdom?

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

Do we have left wing, right wing and liberals in Pakistan?

We have it all in Pakistan.

Honestly, I am no qualified to give any suggestions, and the plan Allah put in motion will take its course, whether we like it or not, whether we are on board or not, Pakistani needs to decide for themselves, they have this right upon their country, and no one else should determine their way and future, my whole Argument is that Nationalism is not going to be good for Pakistan but that is just my opinion wrt to Islam which I explained in the last couple of posts but at the end of the day, its the People/Politicians and Military leadership who will have to decide if they want to go towards a more nationalistic approach.

As for the worrying part, Remember what Prophet said " If you see something wrong try to stop it by hand, if you cannot do it then say its wrong, and if you are unable to do that either then at least believe its wrong in your heart, and that is the least level of Iman for you.

Before we have the Ummah, we need honesty and integrity first.

 

[Goritoes]

Did thy Lord not make unto thee Nations as His sign so you may knoweth thy wisdom?

He made you in tribes so you may recognize one another, but the Idea of Nationalism isn't just about recognizing one's tribe isn't it? the nationalism of the 21st century is about I, Me and Myself first, then my ethnicity and then my countrymen, and yet Islam breaks that Barrier. Love for a bordered Watan makes you blind from the pain and suffering of those outside your watan and that is not the concept Prophet brought us.

 

[fitpOsitive]

Have a national agenda, work on it, and everything will follow.

 

[Musalman]

We have it all in Pakistan.

Give examples