A call for Pakistani Unity

[peagle]

Let world know Indian people and Pakistani people are different, why are you guys arguing? Isn't this what you want I don't get it Even Pakistan isn't culturally homogenous but all are Pakistani people's right? Let's just agree to be labled differently and work towards that plain and simple

You are very obsessed with the world, and yet you are so wrong.
Your interpretation of what the world thinks is only real in your fantasies, if you want to have a proper discussion then you are most welcome, otherwise, better to stay with your own.

There are some among Pakistanis who are sick of Indian terrorism and arrogance, so would rather solidify our links towards the western side. Pakistan straddles various regions and has links to different cultural groupings, its a unique position not many countries in the world enjoy. So, in a sense, they are right, because we have a lot in common with our western neighbours.

But there are others, including myself, who feel we are geographically South Asian, the only term recognised by the UN and globally, and would rather have close links with all, including India.

Very few countries in the world are culturally homogeneous, not even the European countries, from where the concept of nation-state began. But the fact remains, if a group have a shared history and other shared experiences then they are right to claim a shared identity, and that is the case with Pakistan.

Pakistanis mostly look alike, all the ethnicities wear Salwar Kamiz uniformly, each group filters into the neighbouring province with large numbers without a problem, shared religion, shared history in terms of historical rule that goes back to the Indus Valley Civilisation. These things are facts. That's a lot more similarities then within most countries another the world, including India, the differences in India are gargantuan, but you are still trying to claim a single identity, good luck to you.

It would have been better if you had stayed out, you discuss your identity, let the Pakistanis discuss theirs, it has nothing to do with you.

 

[masterchief_mirza]

" Early Harappan Ravi Phase, named after the nearby Ravi River, lasted fromc. 3300 BCE until 2800 BCE. It started when farmers from the mountains gradually moved between their mountain homes and the lowland river valleys,[105] and is related to the Hakra Phase, identified in the Ghaggar-Hakra River Valley to the west, and predates the Kot Diji Phase (2800–2600 BCE, Harappan 2), named after a site in northern Sindh, Pakistan, near Mohenjo-daro. The earliest examples of the Indus script date to the 3rd millennium BCE.[106][107]

The mature phase of earlier village cultures is represented by Rehman Dheri and Amri in Pakistan.[108] Kot Dijirepresents the phase leading up to Mature Harappan, with the citadel representing centralised authority and an increasingly urban quality of life. Another town of this stage was found atKalibangan in India on the Hakra River.[109]"

According to J.G. Shaffer and D.A. Lichtenstein,[116] the Mature Harappan Civilisation was "a fusion of the Bagor, Hakra, and Kot Diji traditions or 'ethnic groups' in the Ghaggar-Hakra valley on the borders of India and Pakistan".[117]

By 2600 BCE, the Early Harappan communities turned into large urban centres. Such urban centres includeHarappa, Ganeriwala, Mohenjo-daro in modern-day Pakistan, and Dholavira,Kalibangan, Rakhigarhi, Rupar, andLothal in modern-day India.[118] In total, more than 1,000 cities and settlements have been found, mainly in the general region of the Indus and Ghaggar-Hakra Rivers and their tributaries.[60]"

Folks need to be very clear, no matter how much the FILTH to our east try to generalise Wikipedia entries with "south Asia south Asia south Asia" to suit their narratives, the IVC originated and flourished in ancient Pakistan, NOT ancient India. Certainly we spread into ancient India - some speculate that this occurred around the period of Aryan migrations - but the origins were Pakistani. This is precisely why I was sceptical of your original intentions @UDAYCAMPUS .

You're just a butthurt quasi sanghee propagandist who cannot tolerate that Pakistan is your baap so tries desperately and subtly to rewrite our history in line with your supposed "moderate, non-sanghee, apathic about hinduism's real roots" mantra. Indian Hinduism originated in Pakistan. Now go fuckk yourself if that bothers you. Revisionist filth. You scum are no different to fyrom claiming Macedonian heritage.

 

[Goritoes]

Nationalism is not good, and against the fundamentals of Islam, Pakistani's love to pretend to be Good Muslims hence a call for Nationalism will fall on deaf ears.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

Nationalism is not good, and against the fundamentals of Islam, Pakistani's love to pretend to be Good Muslims hence a call for Nationalism will fall on deaf ears.

ALL Muslim nations apart from Pakistan are turning towards nationalism with positive results. We need to do what's in our best interest. Everyone does. We can't do ANYTHING as a nation until Pakistan is more nationalistic and we put our interests first.

 

[Varunastra]

You are very obsessed with the world, and yet you are so wrong.
Your interpretation of what the world thinks is only real in your fantasies, if you want to have a proper discussion then you are most welcome, otherwise, better to stay with your own.

There are some among Pakistanis who are sick of Indian terrorism and arrogance, so would rather solidify our links towards the western side. Pakistan straddles various regions and has links to different cultural groupings, its a unique position not many countries in the world enjoy. So, in a sense, they are right, because we have a lot in common with our western neighbours.

But there are others, including myself, who feel we are geographically South Asian, the only term recognised by the UN and globally, and would rather have close links with all, including India.

Very few countries in the world are culturally homogeneous, not even the European countries, from where the concept of nation-state began. But the fact remains, if a group have a shared history and other shared experiences then they are right to claim a shared identity, and that is the case with Pakistan.

Pakistanis mostly look alike, all the ethnicities wear Salwar Kamiz uniformly, each group filters into the neighbouring province with large numbers without a problem, shared religion, shared history in terms of historical rule that goes back to the Indus Valley Civilisation. These things are facts. That's a lot more similarities then within most countries another the world, including India, the differences in India are gargantuan, but you are still trying to claim a single identity, good luck to you.

It would have been better if you had stayed out, you discuss your identity, let the Pakistanis discuss theirs, it has nothing to do with you.

What the hell man I'm just saying Pakistanis need to portray themselves as different than us, bas end of story!! As different as possible!! , whether you guys are homogenous or not is none of my concern! I only brought that up cause you called on Indian peoples are different which should be none of your concern.
Make a solid Pakistani identity very very different from ours so that no one bats an eyelid when trying to say what is Pakistani culture and make it known and popular, make it very very different from Indian culture, currently Westerners get confused!
That's what you want, Pakistanis want, indians want!!

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

This is Urdu-speaking BS, we all 230 million Pakistanis are Urdu speaking for f. sake, let us leave this term in the dust bin of history. My family origin is also that of an "immigrant", non in my family think of any identity except that of a Pakistani, if you keep thinking terms like Urdu-speaking, you keep feeding it. You are thinking too much bro.
I have only heard this since joining online forum, it doesn't exist in real life and its bull crap.

What is a better term? I am genuinely trying to avoid Muhajir as it implies immigrant, but it is outdated. Urdu Speaker, as i have been told, but some like brother speak other languages, so it doesn't fit exactly.

I am trying to be respectful. Help me out.

Pakistani molvis have no issue with tag liberals. problem is when they call themselve liberals and remove dupatta from our media, make posters and march on road hamara jism hamari marzi, if they want west culture then settle in west country rather than playing with people minds. Pakistan is an Islamic country and in Islamic country and being muslim our first priority should be Islamic rules of laws and our liberals should accept this rather than think they are above it.

Religious Pakistanis are the most patriotic bro.

Nationalism is not good, and against the fundamentals of Islam, Pakistani's love to pretend to be Good Muslims hence a call for Nationalism will fall on deaf ears.

Pakistan's nationalism is based on Islam and a shared identity, which is not against Islam.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

What the hell man I'm just saying Pakistanis need to portray themselves as different than us, bas end of story!! As different as possible!! , whether you guys are homogenous or not is none of my concern! I only brought that up cause you called on Indian peoples are different which should be none of your concern.
Make a solid Pakistani identity very very different from ours so that no one bats an eyelid when trying to say what is Pakistani culture and make it known and popular, make it very very different from Indian culture, currently Westerners get confused!
That's what you want, Pakistanis want, indians want!!

We don't care what non-Pakistanis or Westerners think. They are not our gods.

 

[Goritoes]

ALL Muslim nations apart from Pakistan are turning towards nationalism with positive results. We need to do what's in our best interest. Everyone does. We can't do ANYTHING as a nation until Pakistan is more nationalistic and we put our interests first.

Nationalism is a short-sighted idea, which by its nature bound to fall or get corrupt we have seen it in Europe and most recently in USA, I notice a lot of people here despise the concept of Ummah and even abuse it, forgetting that this was given by Prophet with full authority from Allah, a system that Allah put for you would be best because he knows best, if a concept such as Ummah is not working, don't blame the concept but blame those who failed to strengthen it, if your results are wrong because you put wrong numbers in any equation, you don't blame the equation you check for your mistake and where did you put wrong numbers, correct it until you get the desired results.

Remember nationalism and just one incident away from Fascism and history told us that it's not good for any healthy nation, but if this is what Pakistani's do want for themselves, then good for them and they are welcome to it, but they should also change their official name from the " Islamic Republic of Pakistan " to " People's republic or just Pakistan ", No need to keep the name of Islam attach to Pakistan when one is making fun of a concept which Prophet prescribed for his nation.

 

[peagle]

What the hell man I'm just saying Pakistanis need to portray themselves as different than us, bas end of story!! As different as possible!! , whether you guys are homogenous or not is none of my concern! I only brought that up cause you called on Indian peoples are different which should be none of your concern.
Make a solid Pakistani identity very very different from ours so that no one bats an eyelid when trying to say what is Pakistani culture and make it known and popular, make it very very different from Indian culture, currently Westerners get confused!
That's what you want, Pakistanis want, indians want!!

Why are you getting so sensitive?
Please don't get your knickers in a twist.

And stop being obsessed with the western world, I thought you guys hated them, you old masters. The world knows what's what and who's who, and we don't really give a crap about what the world thinks.

We don't have a problem with having similarities with our neighbours, you cant change history. But similarities does not mean the same. If you have such a problem then please go discuss it with your own lot.
What are you doing here?
Don't you know it's rude to enter uninvited.

 

[Goritoes]

Pakistan's nationalism is based on Islam and a shared identity, which is not against Islam.

No, it's not... Pakistani people to this day have hard accepting immigrants from India, yes they are integrated into society but within the pockets of society, you have people who don't to this day, when Meccan Muhajreen went to Madina they were accepted with love and hospitality, later Prophet makes it official that they are brothers to one another in Islam, how is the situation in Pakistan? if you look around you will see many families which belong to a certain ethnicity will not marry their son/daughter in other. Nationalism is not going to work unless Pakistan completely gives up the Idea of the Islamic republic, becomes something along the lines of Turkey and you might become successive for decades or a century at most.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

Nationalism is a short-sighted idea, which by its nature bound to fall or get corrupt we have seen it in Europe and most recently in USA, I notice a lot of people here despise the concept of Ummah and even abuse it, forgetting that this was given by Prophet with full authority from Allah, a system that Allah put for you would be best because he knows best, if a concept such as Ummah is not working, don't blame the concept but blame those who failed to strengthen it, if your results are wrong because you put wrong numbers in any equation, you don't blame the equation you check for your mistake and where did you put wrong numbers, correct it until you get the desired results.

Remember nationalism and just one incident away from Fascism and history told us that it's not good for any healthy nation, but if this is what Pakistani's do want for themselves, then good for them and they are welcome to it, but they should also change their official name from the " Islamic Republic of Pakistan " to " People's republic or just Pakistan ", No need to keep the name of Islam attach to Pakistan when one is making fun of a concept which Prophet prescribed for his nation.

Ummah can ONLY work if ALL Muslims desire it. Apart from Pakistanis, ALL other Muslims are vehemently opposed to the idea of the Ummah. Try telling the Arabs and Iranians to form an Ummah. See what their response would be. Also, Pakistan is currently in no situation to be able to think about non-Pakistanis. If we can't help ourselves, then we are no good and of no use to non-Pakistanis.

 

[Goritoes]

Ummah can ONLY work if ALL Muslims desire it. Apart from Pakistanis, ALL other Muslims are vehemently opposed to the idea of the Ummah. Try telling the Arabs and Iranians to form an Ummah. See what their response would be. Also, Pakistan is currently in no situation to be able to think about non-Pakistanis. If we can't help ourselves, then we are no good and of no use to non-Pakistanis.

Again, you are getting the Point are you, its a concept of Unity like European Power made one for themselves, you know the history of Europeans right, they kill each other for centuries and in millions and yet they come together because they know the importance of unity among themselves, they based their unity based on Geographic locations and ethnic connections but we have something that makes us, not just connected to other Muslim countries but it makes us literally a brother of any Muslim around the world, this is no joke especially when you hear Prophets last sermon, Plus Pakistani's should speak for themselves if they like to follow up the Idea of Ummah or go towards nationalism, because Arabs can definitely speak for themselves, and by Arabs and Persians I don't mean those who are on PDF but a large consensus which no one has.

 

[peagle]

What is a better term? I am genuinely trying to avoid Muhajir as it implies immigrant, but it is outdated. Urdu Speaker, as i have been told, but some like brother speak other languages, so it doesn't fit exactly.

I am trying to be respectful. Help me out.

All the immigrants do have ethnicities, why not just Pakistani-Gujarati, or Pakistani-Behari and so on, Whichever term the groups feel comfortable with, because ultimately it is for them to choose their identity, Urdu speaking has become a habit so accepted over time, thank God Muhajir is being used less and less, I honestly do not remember the last time I heard it.

If Urdu-speakers is what they want, then why not, but we are free to question it, in case it is not what they want, there is nothing wrong with asking questions.

People are referred to as Kashmiris wherever they live in Pakistan, it is acceptable, people are also referred to by their city of origin. Term finding is a process, and for me, the above seems to make sense, unless I come across a better explanation.

@fitpOsitive what term do you think is good?
Is Urdu-speakers a good term as any? over time, has it become entrenched? or do you have other ideas?

It's actually a good discussion and in keeping with the topic in the thread.

 

[Varunastra]

We don't care what non-Pakistanis or Westerners think. They are not our gods.

What's the use of identity if none gives a shit about it. I'm original point was on the world not only westerners.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

What's the use of identity if none gives a shit about it. I'm original point was on the world not only westerners.

I am ONLY interested in what my own Pakistani people think or feel. I couldn't give a damn what non-Pakistanis think, feel or say. Doesn't even register. Explains why I am not waffling on an indian or american forum.