A call for Pakistani Unity

[peagle]

Pakistani will be best. For me, it's a useless debate that who should be called what. Are people of Pakistan really working with honesty? Are people getting justice? Do people feel safe?
After all that is achieved, we are ready to be called monkeys. Doesn't really matter what people call us. We will either prove ourselves, or we will vanish. Simple.

I love your sentiment.
What we were referring to was the use of a term for practical purposes. You see Sindhi and Punjabi are ethnic groups, but they are also a term used for practical purposes, census counting for instance, and that affects how different communities are looked after within a country.
By measuring a community within the country, it serves a practical purpose, if they are not being represented, then that needs to be recognized, that can only be done if there is a term, either as a block (Urdu-speaking) or precise term (Pakistan-Behari) etc..

So it has a practical aspect, besides identity as being Pakistanis.

 

[fitpOsitive]

I love your sentiment.
What we were referring to was the use of a term for practical purposes. You see Sindhi and Punjabi are ethnic groups, but they are also a term used for practical purposes, census counting for instance, and that affects how different communities are looked after within a country.
By measuring a community within the country, it serves a practical purpose, if they are not being represented, then that needs to be recognized, that can only be done if there is a term, either as a block (Urdu-speaking) or precise term (Pakistan-Behari) etc..

So it has a practical aspect, besides identity as being Pakistanis.

Mashriqi Pakistani.

 

[peagle]

Mashriqi Pakistani.

Why is that?

Mashriq Pakistan is part of history now, and that term had a specific meaning, that no longer applies.
And, the vast majority of immigrants did not come from Mashriq Pakistan, but from different regions of British India.

From how it looks, the people seem to have accepted Urdu-speaking, even among themselves. Trying to create a new term might just create more drama, that we can live without. I am just happy that the term Muhajir is being used less and less nowadays, so that's a good thing I suppose.

A term is required, because it has practical benefits, I suppose Urdu-speaking is a generalized term, so why not.

 

[fitpOsitive]

Why is that?

Mashriq Pakistan is part of history now, and that term had a specific meaning, that no longer applies.
And, the vast majority of immigrants did not come from Mashriq Pakistan, but from different regions of British India.

From how it looks, the people seem to have accepted Urdu-speaking, even among themselves. Trying to create a new term might just create more drama, that we can live without. I am just happy that the term Muhajir is being used less and less nowadays, so that's a good thing I suppose.

A term is required, because it has practical benefits, I suppose Urdu-speaking is a generalized term, so why not.

Ham se kehty Hain Chaman waly keh ghareeban e Chaman.
Tum bhi rakhlo Acha Sa koi apny veerany ka naam.

 

[peagle]

Ham se kehty Hain Chaman waly keh ghareeban e Chaman.
Tum bhi rakhlo Acha Sa koi apny veerany ka naam.

Although I love Urdu poetry, a lot of it goes over my head because my in-depth understanding of any language other than English is quite weak lol

But, the above verse is very nice and to the point, life has certain requirements, good to fulfil those requirements, rather than suffer from the sidelines.

 

[El Sidd]

A Nation which has strong disgust of colonialism cannot find unity behind a man who found fame in a colonial sport.

Pakistan needs to break the shackles of its colonial past.

Paid sportsmen looking for personal glory shall never again come within reach of absolute power in Pakistan.

#GoNiaziGo

 

[fitpOsitive]

Although I love Urdu poetry, a lot of it goes over my head because my in-depth understanding of any language other than English is quite weak lol

But, the above verse is very nice and to the point, life has certain requirements, good to fulfil those requirements, rather than suffer from the sidelines.

Karachi Muslim?!

 

[krash]

But the world should know you guys are different than us Indians, can't play the ostrich here. People use Indian Pakistani into anything like they are synonyms or something especially western folks.

People around the world lump us together and then then the good or bad treatments we Indians/Pakistanis bear as they mistake us for another, let the world know we are different and treat us as such. Maybe start a petition, a twitter trend whatever.
We know the reality the world doesn't, make a different classification happen and separate, it would be good for pakistani unity too so win win.

They will, eventually. The "western folks" still label all East Asian nationalities as "Chinese". A white man from Canada to New Zealand is just a gora in India. Most of those who know us personally know the difference, very clearly.

 

[Varunastra]

They will, eventually. The "western folks" still label all East Asian nationalities as "Chinese". A white man from Canada to New Zealand is just a gora in India. Most of those who know us personally know the difference, very clearly.

Yeah I guess it's just convenient for people to generalize into larger groups, yeah about the white person remark we do too so I guess we need to change first before expecting them to know the differences clearly.

 

[masterchief_mirza]

You do what you are told by Prophet, just because a Non-Pakistani is doing something wrong or against the Prophet and teaching doesn't mean you have to follow their route as well, yes people are against the concept because they were indoctrinated for centuries about fending for themselves, or the fear of death was embedded within their hearts, material stuff, Power , women, and money corrupts the minds and hearts of people and Leadership hence you see the fall, unity is the only solution for Muslims to have some sort of say in world politics, if they want the world to hear them they have to join their voices, even Allama Iqbal knows and understand this, that is why he said " United we Stand, Divided we Fall ", Also we can't even say that we haven't seen a successful model of unity among the people makes them stronger, Europe is right infront of us, Powerful they are as long as they are united as a Union the moment they start to leave the union they will be open to many threats from the Power hungry people across the world.

Pakistan has potential, no doubt it that, they can lead, help, and even make themselves heard in the world if they want to, but when you are weak and constantly bombarded by enemies from all sides, and World Powers trying their best to weaken you, turn you into a pile of rumble, further Isolating yourself within your borders and promote nationalism will give you a false sense of power and strength, even Nationalism once get out of hand can destroy a country, as we saw with Italy and Germany in the 20th Century, Look what happens in America in last 4 years of Trump, Nationalism turned into White Supremacy and it hurts the Fundamental Idea of America which it was founded upon, and when the heavy minds realized that they vote Trump out of office before that blind nationalism, fake patriotism and entangled with White Supremacy took them on a self-destructive path. Look at Arabs of today, you think they are doing good? their countries might look good financially and so on but all of it is because they are towing in the line giving to them by US/Israel the moment they try to make an independent foreign Policy, suddenly nationalist voices start to rise, rioting breaks out, calls for reforms turn deadly and you have a civil war that leaves the country into pieces, Syria and Libya are prime examples of it, KSA UAE QATAR all of these countries are housing American troops for their security, if they are so Powerful militarily and financially why they need American troops and technology, Yes they are scared and they have no choice now, they can not even ask Americans to leave now, this is what happens when you try to fend for yourself and isolate yourself from others.

We Muslims should be thankful that Allah provided us with such amazing guideline and religion which tells us how to live, behave, conduct our business, politics, and Military and it all connects our worldly gains to the spiritual gains which every Muslim try to reach within its life, but we abuse, forgets and completely disregard our religion, our laws hence we are nothing when it comes to the worldly affairs.


“We were the most humiliated people on earth and God gave us honour through Islam. If we ever seek honour through anything else, God will humiliate us again.”
― Umar ibn Al-Khattab

Tell you what...here's a mental idea for you. Let's make Pakistan strong first by putting Pakistan first in our agendas. Then when your precious non-Pakistanis see how strong we are, they'll come knocking at our door in appreciation. Non-Pakistani Muslims don't worry about Pakistani issues because people like you think you can dangle the ummah card in front of them and gain automatic support. There is a reason India wants subcontinental Muslims to behave like you. It renders them toothless and ineffective, mere passengers waiting for something to happen while others steer the train.

The pioneers of the ummah understood very well that theirs was in fact an imperial project, dependent on contemporaneous and realistic earthly goals to be its driving force. People flocked to various ummahs in centuries past because of what those ummahs were achieving militarily, economically and academically. The same would be true now. Playing fields are different, rather than physical expansion, empires ebb and flow through technology and economic power these days,but the underlying principles of the game remain constant.

 

[peagle]

Karachi Muslim?!

I honestly do not know,
If Karachi Muslim is used, then it's a vast umbrella term, as any term that signifies Muslim encompasses everyone, including other ethnic groups.

It's something to think about, but just from this discussion, I think Urdu speaking/speakers works.
It's a neutral term, the origin of Urdu actually is from the region that is part of India now, and Urdu is a pan Muslim language among Muslims of South Asia.

It might not be the best solution, but I am starting to think Urdu-speaking/speakers, actually makes sense. As long as the people that are being described as such, accept it, it seems they do. I know of so many marriages between Urdu speakers and other ethnic groups of Pakistan, including in my family.

Perhaps sometimes the answer is just in your face, I think Urdu speaking/speakers is a good compromise.

 

[Goritoes]

Tell you what...here's a mental idea for you. Let's make Pakistan strong first by putting Pakistan first in our agendas. Then when your precious non-Pakistanis see how strong we are, they'll come knocking at our door in appreciation. Non-Pakistani Muslims don't worry about Pakistani issues because people like you think you can dangle the ummah card in front of them and gain automatic support. There is a reason India wants subcontinental Muslims to behave like you. It renders them toothless and ineffective, mere passengers waiting for something to happen while others steer the train.

The pioneers of the ummah understood very well that theirs was in fact an imperial project, dependent on contemporaneous and realistic earthly goals to be its driving force. People flocked to various ummahs in centuries past because of what those ummahs were achieving militarily, economically and academically. The same would be true now. Playing fields are different, rather than physical expansion, empires ebb and flow through technology and economic power these days,but the underlying principles of the game remain constant.

Explain that to Prophet and Allah when you die, you don't have to explain it to me.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

You do what you are told by Prophet, just because a Non-Pakistani is doing something wrong or against the Prophet and teaching doesn't mean you have to follow their route as well, yes people are against the concept because they were indoctrinated for centuries about fending for themselves, or the fear of death was embedded within their hearts, material stuff, Power , women, and money corrupts the minds and hearts of people and Leadership hence you see the fall, unity is the only solution for Muslims to have some sort of say in world politics, if they want the world to hear them they have to join their voices, even Allama Iqbal knows and understand this, that is why he said " United we Stand, Divided we Fall ", Also we can't even say that we haven't seen a successful model of unity among the people makes them stronger, Europe is right infront of us, Powerful they are as long as they are united as a Union the moment they start to leave the union they will be open to many threats from the Power hungry people across the world.

Pakistan has potential, no doubt it that, they can lead, help, and even make themselves heard in the world if they want to, but when you are weak and constantly bombarded by enemies from all sides, and World Powers trying their best to weaken you, turn you into a pile of rumble, further Isolating yourself within your borders and promote nationalism will give you a false sense of power and strength, even Nationalism once get out of hand can destroy a country, as we saw with Italy and Germany in the 20th Century, Look what happens in America in last 4 years of Trump, Nationalism turned into White Supremacy and it hurts the Fundamental Idea of America which it was founded upon, and when the heavy minds realized that they vote Trump out of office before that blind nationalism, fake patriotism and entangled with White Supremacy took them on a self-destructive path. Look at Arabs of today, you think they are doing good? their countries might look good financially and so on but all of it is because they are towing in the line giving to them by US/Israel the moment they try to make an independent foreign Policy, suddenly nationalist voices start to rise, rioting breaks out, calls for reforms turn deadly and you have a civil war that leaves the country into pieces, Syria and Libya are prime examples of it, KSA UAE QATAR all of these countries are housing American troops for their security, if they are so Powerful militarily and financially why they need American troops and technology, Yes they are scared and they have no choice now, they can not even ask Americans to leave now, this is what happens when you try to fend for yourself and isolate yourself from others.

We Muslims should be thankful that Allah provided us with such amazing guideline and religion which tells us how to live, behave, conduct our business, politics, and Military and it all connects our worldly gains to the spiritual gains which every Muslim try to reach within its life, but we abuse, forgets and completely disregard our religion, our laws hence we are nothing when it comes to the worldly affairs.


“We were the most humiliated people on earth and God gave us honour through Islam. If we ever seek honour through anything else, God will humiliate us again.”
― Umar ibn Al-Khattab

Pakistani Nationalism is unique as it is based on Islam and Islamic history. We style ourselves as great defenders of Islam and spreaders of the faith. This kind of ideology will always find appeal among Muslims, so we will always have moral support, which in sha Allah will become concrete support as has been the case with Turkey, Afghanistan, Azerbaycan, Bosnia, Somalia, Indonesia, Malaysia, and other places.

I have also recently become optimistic about Iran as well, it seems that some common sense has returned to Tehran. I am glad to see that.

They will, eventually. The "western folks" still label all East Asian nationalities as "Chinese". A white man from Canada to New Zealand is just a gora in India. Most of those who know us personally know the difference, very clearly.

I have never once been mistaken for an Indian. People always think I am Arab or Iranian, and several have thought I was Turk as well.

We Pakistanis have a very different look, and our look is basically Southwest Asian/Middle Eastern, like our ethnic cousins and neighbors to our North and West.

 

[Goritoes]

Pakistani Nationalism is unique as it is based on Islam and Islamic history. We style ourselves as great defenders of Islam and spreaders of the faith. This kind of ideology will always find appeal among Muslims, so we will always have moral support, which in sha Allah will become concrete support as has been the case with Turkey, Afghanistan, Azerbaycan, Bosnia, Somalia, Indonesia, Malaysia, and other places.

I have also recently become optimistic about Iran as well, it seems that some common sense has returned to Tehran. I am glad to see that.

Bro, you can sugar coat all you want, but if you study the Islamic system, there is no space for Nationalism to the level where a Muslim need a Visa or Passport to travel, yes Visa and Passports are modern inventions but the system which was brought/implemented by Prophet and later carried by 4 Rashidun caliphs, there is no such thing as Nationalism, Plus you are giving to much importance to Pakistan wrt Islam, yes Pakistan was created in the name of Islam but today the whole country is run on Britsh laws/regulations, it only has Islamic in the name that's pretty much it.

I have also recently become optimistic about Iran as well, it seems that some common sense has returned to Tehran. I am glad to see that.

Iran Problem is not common sense but their Sect, which is not acceptable by the majority of Muslims ( Sunnis ) so even if they get in their sense their sectarians loyalties and affiliation will overcome that, there can not be Real Peace between Shia and Sunni, and by Real/Actual Peace I mean Geniune one not that counseling the faith for show up kind of peace, the ideological difference between them and Sunni's are very big it can not be overcome without one proven completely false.

 

[Baibars_1260]

Let world know Indian people and Pakistani people are different, why are you guys arguing? Isn't this what you want I don't get it Even Pakistan isn't culturally homogenous but all are Pakistani people's right? Let's just agree to be labled differently and work towards that plain and simple

The world already knows we are different. No one confuses the Irish with the British or an Australian with a Canadian.
Pakistanis are a separate racial, ethnic and national identity.
If there is any minor confusion it is Sri Lankan Sinhalese being mistaken for Telugu speaking persons, Sri Lankan Tamils being mistaken for Indian Tamils and Bangladeshis being mistaken for West Bengalis and this is highly resented by Sri Lankans and Bangladeshis. Other nations have their pride too and are highly resentful of being mistaken for citizens of another country.
Pakistanis are distinct from the rest of the subcontinent, but are the only mult-ethnic, multi-cultural Muslim majority nation in the world ( discounting sections of very small splintered Kurdish populations in Turkey, Iraq, Iran, and Syria, )