8 Chinese submarines approval & used western subs talks

[xyxmt]

I think Europeans are cutting their own feet, the only exports they have left is Defense equipments and they are denying it to a country with 6th largest Army...they are short sighted, they think Pakistan will always be this poor, but if in this poor state Pakistan is buying Chinese equipment then it mean they will remain chinese customer for a long time, even when Pakistan is a 3 trillion economy.

 

[Asian.Century]

How many subs PN wants with missile launch capability? I guess 3 to 4. If these are tasked with strike roles as part of the triad. That means PN still needs submarines to patrol their coastlines to keep the IN honest and also additional subs to conduct aggressive patrols in Indian Ocean & Bay of Bengal. 3 Agosta 90s are not sufficient to carry all the patrol duties. They need to be complemented by additional submarines.


I believe discussion was to procure up to initial 6 Chinese submarines. Naturally give the current state of economy it will take some time. If resources permit, I would like to see the 8 Chinese or 4 German submarines. It would give PN a fleet of 12 submarines. A very formidable force indeed

 

[shaheenmissile]

Only one Qing class sub was ever built with a bulging bottom,as it had a VLS for a ballustic missile in the sail.
It was a test bed for chinese VLS.

 

[That Guy]

But it depends whether other suppliers are ready to sell their hardware or not. We had been asking U.S to give Apaches for decades, but they refused(due to Indian lobby). France has also refused to share its submarine technology to Pakistan because they were not invited on the parade day (That was quite childish of them ). Same can be expected from Germany because they are NATO. Will Russia provide us S-300? If yes then good enough. If not then we have no option but China.

Germany and France are both willing, the problem is that Pakistan doesn't have the cash. Italy and Pakistan have good military relations, as Pakistan has Italian SAMs (SPADA 2000) and Italian drones (Falco UAV).

It's not that the US won't give Pakistan helicopters, it's that US demands make it hard for Pakistan to justify buying them. The US very recently offered a $200 million dollar loan for Pakistan to buy brand new attack helis from Pakistan, but the deal was supposedly rejected by PA, because of concerns over reliability of getting spare-parts from the US. Another option has always been Turkey, who've always been reliable, and have helped PAF F-16s keep up maintenance, even during sanctions. The Turks have never really cared about western sanctions, and have always looked at their own strategic interests. They want to be the leaders of the Muslim world, so they'll go out of their way to make sure that Pakistan is treated as a friend, not just as a mere ally.

Russia may not give S-300, but Pakistan and Russian defense ties are growing, and the Russians are already benefiting from supplying jet engines to Pakistan. Recent talks of supplying Mi-35s for Pakistan's counter narcotics divisions is evidence enough that the Russians are willing to supply weapons systems to Pakistan, of course under sensitive conditions (India).

 

[Shamain]

Yea russia with an already dwindling economy must listn to india in defence equipment sales to us.
That guy, how do you know with france the issue is of cash?
I once saw a very old video in which the guy was saying pakistan is building its own indigenous sub, abhi tak nahi bani.
Nonetheless about time to upgrde and expand the fleet. It always usedto feel like a punch in stomach when i used to think of our sub fleet strenght.

 

[Metanoia]

I reckon Pakistan is opting for Chinese platforms as the learning experience and ToT attached is very valuable. Eventually we might be looking for complete indigenization of our defense industry. If we really observe the AK, JF, and most of the other military tech we now produce have a strong Chinese influence...the Yanks have done f@ck all.

The Americans are utterly unreliable and untrustworthy (although they have the sweetest of goods). The Europeans and Russians are unreliable as well...a whiff of money from the Indians (which is something the Indians have coupled with strong lobbying power) and they'll ditch us in a heart beat.

Turkey is another viable option and we should definitely cooperate more with them.

 

[SuperSubrayan]

Tu to tension hi le gya bhai..... abi to bas news ayi he...submarine ane de...phr kch kehna!!!

Tell see how thinks turns out ! As far as you build your weapon systems from China it's good for us in other ways too .

 

[SuperSubrayan]

India should supply Iran its latest indigenous technology

Sure ! Now this role is been taken care of by Russians . So SCS country like Vietnam should be our AIM .

 

[Imran Khan]

Are we looking for another 10 or may be 15 years for completing this deal just like the Augusta 90Bs...??

yes sir why not ? it will take some more 10 to 13 years for induct these subs

 

[black-hawk_101]

Image Credit: Department of Defense
Confirmed: Pakistan Will Buy Eight Chinese Subs
Details on the type of vessel as well as the new fleet’s price tag remain unknown.

By Franz-Stefan Gady
April 02, 2015
1.4k
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Yesterday, the Pakistani government confirmed the purchase of eight new submarines from China. “The National Security Committee has approved, in principle, the acquisition of eight Chinese submarines,” Additional Secretary of the Ministry of Defense, Rear Admiral Mukhtar Khan, informedthe National Assembly’s Standing Committee on Defence in Islamabad.

Details on the type of vessels or their price tag are murky. IHS Jane’s quotes an unnamed Pakistani Foreign Ministry official who said that, “in the recent past, there have been reports of discussions for the Type 041 submarines.”

According to IHS Jane’s Fighting Shipsthe Type 041 Yuan-class is,“a diesel electric attack submarine (SSK), potentially with Stirling air independent propulsion, that is armed with YJ-2 (YJ-82) anti-ship missiles and a combination of Yu-4 (SAET-50) passive homing and Yu-3 (SET-65E) active/passive homing torpedoes.” The export version of the vessel allegedly displaces about 2,300 tons, according to public sources.

However, as I noted here, the Wuhan-based China State Shipbuilding Industrial Corp (CSIC) supposedly had already signed a contract in April 2011 to deliver six Type 032 Qing-class conventional attack submarines by 2016/2017. Apparently, this deal must be off the table now.

Still other media sources report that Islamabad will build submarines under license based on the Qing-class vessels displacing 3,000 tons: “Pakistan will also build two types of submarines with Chinese assistance: the Project S-26 and Project S-30. The vessels are to be built at the Submarine Rebuild Complex (SRC) facility being developed at Ormara, west of Karachi.”

The procurement of a new fleet of submarines constitutes Islamabad’s most expensive arms deal by far. Estimated total costs range between $4-5 billion. IHS Jane’s quotes a former Pakistani defense official who said that it is “difficult to imagine a price of less than USD 500 million per submarine, if not more.”

He also said that he suspects China to extend a long-term loan, possibly at a low interest rate. Another Pakistani military expert told the Financial Times that there are still many unknowns: “At this stage, we don’t know the exact financial terms and unless we know the financial terms we can’t be certain about the significance of this order,” he said. “Still, it’s an important contract for Pakistan.”

Ali Sarwar Naqvi, a former senior Pakistani diplomat, said about Beijing’s rationale behind the weapons deal: “China has its own strategic reasons to help Pakistan in this area. As India prepares to head in to the Pacific Ocean, the Chinese are looking to head in to the Indian Ocean.”

I hope PN will make a deal with China like:
6 Chinese sub Block-I to be manufactured within 5 years time by using two dry docks at KS&EWs
Later On,
6 Chinese sub Block-II to be manufactured within 5 years time by using two dry docks at KS&EWs
And then,
6 Chinese sub Block-III to be manufactured within 5 years time by using two dry docks at KS&EWs

 

[Sulman Badshah]

The Diplomat report this


“Pakistan will build two types of submarines with Chinese assistance: the Project S-26 and Project S-30. The vessels are to be built at the Submarine Rebuild Complex (SRC) facility being developed at Ormara, west of Karachi. Intelligence sources believe the S-30 submarines are based on the Chinese Qing class submarines-3,000-tonne conventional submarines which can launch three 1,500-km range nuclear-tipped cruise missiles from its conning tower. A Very Low Frequency (VLF) station at Turbat, in southern Balochistan, will communicate with these submerged strategic submarines.”

 

[Saifullah Sani]

According to Jang News Pakistan wanted to buy six submarines from China and Two from Germany but after Germany's refusal Pakistan decided to buy all eight Subs from China.

Latest news, Breaking News | Daily Jang

 

[AliWaqar]

China help pakistan in every matter i think if china give us Jf-17 Z-10 J-10 we look happy but now in this matter if we acquire Subs From China i see some Jal kukris Are Crying And Some 1 Told me That Funds For this DEal and also For j10 and Are paid By Saudis [

 

[Danish saleem]

that is a huge order , but if govt approve the order , they must give them some dollars , cause nothing is free ...
PN need heavy modification to its fleet , as Gwader Port is been Operational , we need to have more Frigate and 1-2 heavy Destroyers with Good AAW capabilities .. a VLS system on our Frigate or DDG's in important , without a proper defense our Ships will not be much effective Against enemy CM and Fighters ...

and if we are up to buy a huge number of Subs, i would say , Buy 3 Chinese subs ,and 3 German or French ... and keep working on our own N-Sub for second strike Capability ..

like Z-10 Heli's, its also china's First Order of Export for their Subs, so , we are getting huge discounts in the prices, because of these subs worked properly for next 3-5 years, this will be great opportunity for china to enter in subs market in rest of the World!

 

[ghauri05]

According to Jang News Pakistan wanted to buy six submarines from China and Two from Germany but after Germany's refusal Pakistan decided to buy all eight Subs from China.

Latest news, Breaking News | Daily Jang

Please confirm the submarine is diesel electric or AIP? Aren't the 2 different technologies???