6 Rafale fighters to land in India on April 28, 4 more in May: Official

[xyxmt]

have the pickle jar ready

 

[ziaulislam]

An unbiased view of the matter.

Mixed with jingoism by members of both the countries it is a different story all together.
SU-30 at its induction was leagues ahead of other ac in this region. However, arrival of AMRAMs in PAF turned the tables.
PAF does take the crown for being a little more dynamic in creating that asymmetry.

But I guess the game is on. IAF under the current dispensation is on its toes and trying to recover lost ground under multiple Congress governments.

I am sure PAF is also working to create an asymmetry.
AT this moment IAF seems to have gained back that edge.

But the AMRAMs were signed in 2004
So you mean IAF planners were sleeping for 16 years?

Block production?

Every country in world do block production not in one go for same reason

How idiotic it is to produce an airoplane in 2019 with avionics of 1998???

Be it jf17, f16, typhoon, rafale, every aircarft goes a basic revesion every 50 or so aircarfts to keep it relevant

 

[Myth_buster_1]

Rafales are medium weight jets so not comparable to MKIs.

So medium weight are better then heavy is what you are trying to say? Lol

 

[colonel rajesh]

Six Rafale warplanes will land in India on April 28, enabling the Indian Air Force (IAF) to take the first steps to raise its second squadron of the fourth-generation-plus fighter jets at West Bengal’s Hasimara airbase, people familiar with the matter said on Thursday. Four more fighters are scheduled to reach next month.

The 6 planes will allow the IAF to fully raise the No. 17 Squadron, also known as the Golden Arrows. The squadron, disbanded in 2016 after the IAF started phasing out of Russian-origin MiG 21 jets, was revived in September last year after the induction of the first batch of the French-origin warplanes. The squadron is based out of Ambala Air Force Station, India’s oldest airbase that is strategically located near India’s border with Pakistan and China.

A senior IAF official said induction of the 6 fighters will complete the Golden Arrows squadron - it currently has 14 fighters against a standard squadron strength of 18 - and enable the air force to induct 2 remaining planes from this batch in the second Rafale squadron to be raised at the Hasimara airbase in Bengal’s Siliguri corridor. The four planes expected in May will also be sent to the squadron in Hasimara which will cover central and eastern Tibet.


A second IAF official said the IAF was trying to see if the six Rafale fighters could be flagged off by IAF chief Air Chief Marshal RKS Bhadauria during his visit to Paris later this month. “But it looks difficult,” he said.

The arrival of 10 fighters in two batches by next month will raise the strength of the Rafales in the air force to 24. French ambassador Emmanuel Lenain told reporters last week that the delivery of all 36 Rafale jets will be completed by 2022 as per the contract.

India had inked a ₹59,000 crore ($8.7 billion) agreement with the French government to buy 36 Rafale fighter jets, replacing the previous United Progressive Alliance (UPA) regime’s decision to buy 126 Rafale aircraft, 108 of which were to be made in India by the state-owned Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL).

The deal was dragged into a controversy after the opposition led by the Congress claimed that the NDA government was buying the planes at an inflated price. The Supreme Court and the government’s top auditor, Comptroller and Auditor General, did not find any indication of malfeasance. But the controversy was reignited over the last week after a French online journal, Mediapart, claimed that Dassault Aviation, which manufactures the Rafale jet, paid €1 million to a Sushen Gupta, described as a “middleman”, in connection with the deal for 36 jets.

A French diplomat in Delhi said the French aviation giant, Dassault Aviation, and the government would issue an appropriate rebuttal to the ‘so-called expose’ by the online portal.

The diplomat cited a $3.7 billion deal between France and Greece for the sale of 18 Rafale jets including 12 used fighters to assert that this agreement sealed in Athens suggested that New Delhi had negotiated better terms.

The warplanes received by the IAF are equipped with India-specific enhancements including the Meteor beyond visual range air-to-air missiles, Mica multi-mission air-to-air missiles, Scalp deep-strike cruise missiles and the Hammer smart weapon.

6 Rafale fighters to land in India on April 28, 4 more in May: Official

The IAF is trying to see if the 6 Rafale fighters can be flagged off by IAF chief Air Chief Marshal RKS Bhadauria during his visit to Paris later this month but it may not be possible.

www.hindustantimes.com

good news to alarm the few

 

[HostileInsurgent]

So medium weight are better then heavy is what you are trying to say? Lol

Its an altogether different class, plus Rafales come with latest tech, our MKIs are still using the same internals as it was using 20 years ago and will undergo Super Sukhoi upgrade.

 

[kongn]

But the AMRAMs were signed in 2004
So you mean IAF planners were sleeping for 16 years?

Every country in world do block production not in one go for same reason

How idiotic it is to produce an airoplane in 2019 with avionics of 1998???

Be it jf17, f16, typhoon, rafale, every aircarft goes a basic revesion every 50 or so aircarfts to keep it relevant

Meteor wasn't ready until 2016.R-77-1 was not operational until recently .Mica was already acquired but its a different kind of missile and not available on Su-30mki.Derby -ER wasn't available.Astra wasn't ready.So r-77 was the best option available.America wouldn't sell us AMRAAMs and european and israeli options were under development.So,no IAF wasn't sleeping.It used the best option it had.Now that astra,r-77-1,derby ER are available its spoilt for choice and first 2 options have been exercised.

There is nothing wrong with su-30mki as a plane in subcontinent context even today.AESA is not needed until PAF gets AESA.Avionics is still good,but will get dated by AESA introduction in PLAAF and PAF.

 

[ziaulislam]

Meteor wasn't ready until 2016.R-77-1 was not operational until recently .Mica was already acquired but its a different kind of missile and not available on Su-30mki.Derby -ER wasn't available.Astra wasn't ready.So r-77 was the best option available.America wouldn't sell us AMRAAMs and european and israeli options were under development.So,no IAF wasn't sleeping.It used the best option it had.Now that astra,r-77-1,derby ER are available its spoilt for choice and first 2 options have been exercised.

There is nothing wrong with su-30mki as a plane in subcontinent context even today.AESA is not needed until PAF gets AESA.Avionics is still good,but will get dated by AESA introduction in PLAAF and PAF.

Aim 120 c was available to india(u must be kidding that it wasnt available. Where do u live? Mars?)
Why didnt india acquire it.
It is already matted with gripen typhoon f16e/f and f18

India was looking at these since 2004-05(MRCA)
Iaf was just waiting for comissions
Even russians long range versions werent acquired

U r behaving like IAF is PAF ..

 

[VkdIndian]

But the AMRAMs were signed in 2004
So you mean IAF planners were sleeping for 16 years?

IAF sleeping? No.
MMRCA deal should have happened ages back. It was not IAF that was sleeping but quite a few others involved in acquisitions were sleeping. Quite a few other BVR plans were also made but didn’t fructify as planned. That’s why I have granted one point to PAF for being more nimble on its feet in acquisitions.
That edge has gone now with Meteor amd few other BVRs being integrated on various fighters.

@kongn has clarified other aspects in his post above.

Aim 120 c was available to india(u must be kidding that it wasnt available. Where do u live? Mars?)
Why didnt india acquire it.
It is already matted with gripen typhoon f16e/f and f18

India was looking at these since 2004-05(MRCA)
Iaf was just waiting for comissions

AIM 120 was available to India? And use it on which platform? SU-30 and MiG-29? Your source of info is incorrect.

IAF was waiting for commissions? This statement is enough to indicate in which direction you want to take this discussion.

 

[kongn]

Aim 120 c was available to india(u must be kidding that it wasnt available. Where do u live? Mars?)
Why didnt india acquire it.
It is already matted with gripen typhoon f16e/f and f18

India was looking at these since 2004-05(MRCA)
Iaf was just waiting for comissions
Even russians long range versions werent acquired

U r behaving like IAF is PAF ..

No it wasnt available outside MRCA.MRCA is subject to clearance from bureaucracy and saint antony of UPA where we lost 10 years for nothing 2004-2014.Charity that you won't ever get from modi G.Russian new models were not operational since 2016 when they first were being deployed in syria.IAF had plans to start replacement from 2020 onwards.So,yes IAF did what was possible .It got micas on the mirages.Meteor and derby ER were not ready.

 

[Jugger]

They used to say that Pak has nothing to match the SU30 before Feb 2019 and now
they say we have nothing to match the Rafale. Lol

PAF had no match for Su 30 from 2000 till early 2011, but after f-16s were upgraded the balance shifted.
Infact PAF didn’t even have a response for BVR Mig -29s in 1999 but obviously not today.

 

[VkdIndian]

maybe, your posts indicate that you bought in to the general accepted opinion in this forum that some PAF shown asymmetry etc, and won the encounter on feb 27th?? PAF is generally better than IAF?? PAF pilots are great / smart / handsome / motivated / tier - 1, while IAF pilots are monkeys; problem sitting in cockpit; tier-n etc etc......

You have attributed quite a few things to my post while I have said none of that in my post. Please read it carefully.

Please note that this a completely biased forum. Most members (including myself) do not have much idea about warfare, but are extremely biased.......

I have got into quite a few slugfests here. I always try and start a discussion with reason and avoid jingoism filled rants till avoidable. Look at this thread. Slugfest has already started.

I have attributed PAF for being nimble footed in acquisitions. Which is true. Look at the number of AEW aircraft they operate. Secure communications too for ages now. Isn’t that asymmetry in these domains?

Abhinandan was shot down because his RT was jammed and he couldn’t hear the directions being given by the controller. Open RT these days? It was a gross failure on part of those who couldn’t provide this critical capability to the IAF.

Considering Indian size, size of economy and the defence budget there is no reason for IAF not to posses enough asymmetry to deter PAF from attempting anything of the sort they did. IAF should have had enough punitive capability to cause excessive loss to PAF in a skirmish that happened last time.

To make things clear I don’t believe that Human Resource’s wise there is any difference. Both are professional forces and capable of executing tasks assigned to them.

Recent push being given to IAF through equipment both airborne and potent AD would give it adequate edge in the near future.

 

[ziaulislam]

IAF sleeping? No.
MMRCA deal should have happened ages back. It was not IAF that was sleeping but quite a few others involved in acquisitions here. Quite a few other BVR plans were also made but didn’t fructify as planned. That’s why why have granted one point to PAF for being more nimble on its feet in acquisitions.
That edge has gone now with Meteor amd few other BVRs being integrated on various fighters.

@kongn has clarified other aspects in his post above.


AIM 120 was available to India? And use it on which platform? SU-30 and MiG-29? Your source of info is incorrect.

IAF was waiting for commissions? This statement is enough to indicate in which direction you want to take this discussion.

Lol can you read???
Why didnt india procure gripen typhoon f16 f18 in 2005 all had AIM120 C7 available
Ironically india just waited for meteor with rafale so comissions can flow

 

[VkdIndian]

The su-30MKI is still the best aircraft in the region.The r-77 was inferior in range to AMRAAM,thats why we switched to astra and r-77-1.The AMRAAM missile still couldn't escape the jamming power of MKI .In an all out airwar PAF would be decimated within 72 hours even without rafale,albeit while causing heavy lossess for us.Rafale and s-400 is to win without heavy losses with total technological overmatch.

I agree. In an all out war yes.

What about a skirmish where both sides would pitch their best stuff? Total size of the AF and numbers wouldn’t matter in a skirmish.

Adequate AEW cover, BVRs with decent kill probability, secure communications were few glaring gaps in the IAF’s capability. They came to fore on that day.

There is no reason for IAF to not have edge even in a skirmish.

 

[VkdIndian]

Lol can you read???
Why didnt india procure gripen typhoon f16 f18 in 2005

Can you read? Was AIM 120 the criteria? Or a platform that met other QRs too.

Is any of the aircraft you have quoted is as capable as Rafale?
You have F-16 with AIm-120 now. Will it be able to match Rafale?

SU-30s were outraged by F-16s on that day. But F-16s weren’t able to shoot down any SU-30. With new BVRs that have been integrated into SU-30 it would be a different ball game.

Keep your commision story to yourself. Only value it has is that you would feel nice about it. Nothing more.

 

[Yasser76]

Can you read? Was AIM 120 the criteria? Or a platform that met other QRs too.

Is any of the aircraft you have quoted is as capable as Rafale?
You have F-16 with AIm-120 now. Will it be able to match Rafale?

SU-30s were outraged by F-16s on that day. But F-16s weren’t able to shoot down any SU-30. With new BVRs that have been integrated into SU-30 it would be a different ball game.

Keep your commision story to yourself. Only value it has is that you would feel nice about it. Nothing more.

Again, unless you were flying SU-30s with the IAF on that day you have no idea what happened. SU-30s were lucky to not have been shot down (by PAF accounts one was). New BVRs on SU-30? Fully integrated yet? New ball game?

Here is some news, the "ball game" did not just involve missiles, if IAF genuinely believes one piece of equipment will change the game then they are very stupid. I personally do not think they are stupid,

Until the IAF dominates the information side of warfare it will lose. The side that will win, as in all wars in history, is the side that quickly gains the right information and acts on it during the fog of war.

PAF blinded the IAF, jammed it's comms then attacked. If that happens again, I can assure you, it really will not matter if you have Meteor or R-77.

As of now it seems PAF still have a massive advantage. What is more (and you can see from just concluded ACES MEET), all major information nodes and fighters exercise on a regular basis not only with each other but with foreign aircraft too (in many cases Chinese SU-30s and Qatari Mirage 2000s).

If you asked any outside observer they would probably back the PAF to come out in top if we went to war again tomorrow (especially as Rafale not really fully ready and Meteor nowhere near being in service).

The post seems more full of nationalistic pride and optimism rather than any value, other than actually making you "feel nice about it".