6 Rafale fighters to land in India on April 28, 4 more in May: Official

[Invicta]

Rafale was not a misstep. It was required badly to make up for dwindling numbers.
AEW and AWACS vs Rafale are two different angles. What would have AEWC achieved without potent fighters?

AEWC provide the potency, this is the crucial information/misunderstanding by most. IAF do need the numbers but that is in the long run, their immediate need is still missing and will remain so. Any new platform inducted will demand and take away crucial money that could be used for AEWC etc. Just my 2 cents.

Yeah, but then they would not have pocketed $1 Million for some plane "models".....

In another 5-10 years when congress is back in power we will learn all about the money that went into different pockets.

 

[HostileInsurgent]

Not sure what your point is.....they both represent IAF.

So?

AEWC provide the potency, this is the crucial information/misunderstanding by most. IAF do need the numbers but that is in the long run, their immediate need is still missing and will remain so. Any new platform inducted will demand and take away crucial money that could be used for AEWC etc. Just my 2 cents.


In another 5-10 years when congress is back in power we will learn all about the money that went into different pockets.

We are getting around 8+2 AEW&CS in a few years. 2 PHALCON AEW&CS on Order and 6 Ex-Indian Airlines aircraft are being modified to use India’s indigenous AEW&C radar.

 

[VkdIndian]

AEWC provide the potency, this is the crucial information/misunderstanding by most. IAF do need the numbers but that is in the long run, their immediate need is still missing and will remain so. Any new platform inducted will demand and take away crucial money that could be used for AEWC etc. Just my 2 cents.

I agree with you on AEWC being a force multiplier. I guess IAF was harping on it and was promised adequate numbers by the DRDO. Which didn’t materialise.

Fighter acquisition was a different and parallel program. Congress governments kept sleeping over it till the state reached where it is now.

As far as money goes, India is not rich but has enough money for few AEW&C aircraft. So it was not money but lack of commitment by the powers that be.

 

[Zapper]

Six Rafale warplanes will land in India on April 28, enabling the Indian Air Force (IAF) to take the first steps to raise its second squadron of the fourth-generation-plus fighter jets at West Bengal’s Hasimara airbase, people familiar with the matter said on Thursday. Four more fighters are scheduled to reach next month.

The 6 planes will allow the IAF to fully raise the No. 17 Squadron, also known as the Golden Arrows. The squadron, disbanded in 2016 after the IAF started phasing out of Russian-origin MiG 21 jets, was revived in September last year after the induction of the first batch of the French-origin warplanes. The squadron is based out of Ambala Air Force Station, India’s oldest airbase that is strategically located near India’s border with Pakistan and China.

A senior IAF official said induction of the 6 fighters will complete the Golden Arrows squadron - it currently has 14 fighters against a standard squadron strength of 18 - and enable the air force to induct 2 remaining planes from this batch in the second Rafale squadron to be raised at the Hasimara airbase in Bengal’s Siliguri corridor. The four planes expected in May will also be sent to the squadron in Hasimara which will cover central and eastern Tibet.


A second IAF official said the IAF was trying to see if the six Rafale fighters could be flagged off by IAF chief Air Chief Marshal RKS Bhadauria during his visit to Paris later this month. “But it looks difficult,” he said.

The arrival of 10 fighters in two batches by next month will raise the strength of the Rafales in the air force to 24. French ambassador Emmanuel Lenain told reporters last week that the delivery of all 36 Rafale jets will be completed by 2022 as per the contract.

India had inked a ₹59,000 crore ($8.7 billion) agreement with the French government to buy 36 Rafale fighter jets, replacing the previous United Progressive Alliance (UPA) regime’s decision to buy 126 Rafale aircraft, 108 of which were to be made in India by the state-owned Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL).

The deal was dragged into a controversy after the opposition led by the Congress claimed that the NDA government was buying the planes at an inflated price. The Supreme Court and the government’s top auditor, Comptroller and Auditor General, did not find any indication of malfeasance. But the controversy was reignited over the last week after a French online journal, Mediapart, claimed that Dassault Aviation, which manufactures the Rafale jet, paid €1 million to a Sushen Gupta, described as a “middleman”, in connection with the deal for 36 jets.

A French diplomat in Delhi said the French aviation giant, Dassault Aviation, and the government would issue an appropriate rebuttal to the ‘so-called expose’ by the online portal.

The diplomat cited a $3.7 billion deal between France and Greece for the sale of 18 Rafale jets including 12 used fighters to assert that this agreement sealed in Athens suggested that New Delhi had negotiated better terms.

The warplanes received by the IAF are equipped with India-specific enhancements including the Meteor beyond visual range air-to-air missiles, Mica multi-mission air-to-air missiles, Scalp deep-strike cruise missiles and the Hammer smart weapon.

6 Rafale fighters to land in India on April 28, 4 more in May: Official

The IAF is trying to see if the 6 Rafale fighters can be flagged off by IAF chief Air Chief Marshal RKS Bhadauria during his visit to Paris later this month but it may not be possible.

www.hindustantimes.com

Are we gonna open threads for every Rafale that lands in India and every Tejas that gets inducted?

 

[VkdIndian]

We are getting around 8+2 AEW&CS in a few years. 2 PHALCON AEW&CS on Order and 6 Ex-Indian Airlines aircraft are being modified to use India’s indigenous AEW&C radar.

Yup the work is on in full swing now. It would take some time though. Time to modify these platforms and integrate them into the ecosystem.

 

[HostileInsurgent]

Yup the work is on in full swing now. It would take some time though. Time to modify these platforms amd integrate into the ecosystem.

I feel Air India can coverup losses by selling Aircrafts to IAF for various roles.

 

[VkdIndian]

I feel Air India can coverup losses by selling Aircrafts to IAF for various roles.

Sounds good. All the aircraft in decent shape can be sold. I am sure IAF would get them at lower price than that available directly form the OEM.

 

[kongn]

An unbiased view of the matter.

Mixed with jingoism by members of both the countries it is a different story all together.
SU-30 at its induction was leagues ahead of other ac in this region. However, arrival of AMRAMs in PAF turned the tables.
PAF does take the crown for being a little more dynamic in creating that asymmetry.

But I guess the game is on. IAF under the current dispensation is on its toes and trying to recover lost ground under multiple Congress governments.

I am sure PAF is also working to create an asymmetry.
AT this moment IAF seems to have gained back that edge.

The su-30MKI is still the best aircraft in the region.The r-77 was inferior in range to AMRAAM,thats why we switched to astra and r-77-1.The AMRAAM missile still couldn't escape the jamming power of MKI .In an all out airwar PAF would be decimated within 72 hours even without rafale,albeit while causing heavy lossess for us.Rafale and s-400 is to win without heavy losses with total technological overmatch.

 

[jk007]

You may have inside info of how PAF is planning to create asymmetry, but I don’t have that insight on the IAF.

Recent skirmish in Azerbaijan vs Armenia was one very good example of creating an asymmetry with low cost but highly effective.


Yes, China is a concern for India. I am sure Indian Defence Forces must be working on it. There have been reports of Chinese attempts at hacking few critical services in India. That must have triggered some action.
We do have an issue of being a slow starter. But once started things do fetch up.
Even QUAD may play a role in that. So it wouldn’t be advantage Pakistan at this stage. Actual extent of who has an edge would remain unknown considering darkness around these matters.

Key would remain an asymmetry in any conflict. That has been ever since warfare started. It has changed colours and means with times.

How, what, where and who would depend on many factors. These are not known to very many people outside of the actual players.

So, I wouldn’t give it to you either.

@VkdIndian - maybe, your posts indicate that you bought in to the general accepted opinion in this forum that some PAF shown asymmetry etc, and won the encounter on feb 27th?? PAF is generally better than IAF?? PAF pilots are great / smart / handsome / motivated / tier - 1, while IAF pilots are monkeys; problem sitting in cockpit; tier-n etc etc......

Maybe, you seem to have accepted that PAF is smart (in using limited resources)......the arrival of AMRAAM changed the equation etc etc??

PAF is a motivated professional airforce, same is IAF.

Pakistan , by nature, punches above it's weight, and most of time got away with it.....Modi + Doval came into the picture, and changed everything.

Please note that this a completely biased forum. Most members (including myself) do not have much idea about warfare, but are extremely biased.......

The only thing admirable about Pakistan - is the way they decimated communists; leftists (+ most liberals)......

PS: I am not trying to put you down. All I am saying - please do not let the propaganda get to you. PAF is not better than IAF. If that were the case, things would be different.

 

[Deltadart]

The su-30MKI is still the best aircraft in the region.The r-77 was inferior in range to AMRAAM,thats why we switched to astra and r-77-1.The AMRAAM missile still couldn't escape the jamming power of MKI .In an all out airwar PAF would be decimated within 72 hours even without rafale,albeit while causing heavy lossess for us.Rafale and s-400 is to win without heavy losses with total technological overmatch.

False bravado again, huh? Heard all this chest thumping so many times before that we are sick of such rants. Apparently, the encounter in 2019 only had a momentary sobering effect on indians, and now they are back to their old tricks. The arrival of rafael, has reenergized the hindutva fanatics to come out of their rat holes again to declare the futility of paf resisting the mighty iaf with their new toys.

 

[Xone]

Instead of starting a new thread with every delivery, better to merge all such thread to single, and name it Big Indians Rafales to Little indians Tejas, a holistic threat to the World.
The big Indian rafale will be a potent plan to counter with one-to-one scenario. But Pakistan can negate its prowess with any pawn plan in a net-centric environment.

 

[Windjammer]

The su-30MKI is still the best aircraft in the region.The r-77 was inferior in range to AMRAAM,thats why we switched to astra and r-77-1.The AMRAAM missile still couldn't escape the jamming power of MKI .In an all out airwar PAF would be decimated within 72 hours even without rafale,albeit while causing heavy lossess for us.Rafale and s-400 is to win without heavy losses with total technological overmatch.

Lol....the SU-30 is indeed a top range fighter but in Indian hands, it's been disqualified to a mere an AMRAAM dodger which again is a major exaggeration as IAF have shot themselves in the foot by displaying the wreckage of an AMRAAM which no doubt was lodged in the so called Raptor of the East.
As for your 72 hour wet dream, remember you are talking about an air force which in it's history has only time delivered was during Kargil conflict....even then because it carried out strikes within own side of LOC against well demarcated positions and without any air opposition, otherwise even during exercises, it's been ridiculed with boasting like cricket score.

 

[Yasser76]

Lol....the SU-30 is indeed a top range fighter but in Indian hands, it's been disqualified to a mere an AMRAAM dodger which again is a major exaggeration as IAF have shot themselves in the foot by displaying the wreckage of an AMRAAM which no doubt was lodged in the so called Raptor of the East.
As for your 72 hour wet dream, remember you are talking about an air force which in it's history has only time delivered was during Kargil conflict....even then because it carried out strikes within own side of LOC against well demarcated positions and without any air opposition, otherwise even during exercises, it's been ridiculed with boasting like cricket score.

Windjammer, this is indeed something I have found very curious ever since 27th Feb and something PAF never exploited for PR

1) Dud missiles usually land intact
2) The missile fragments shown by India had visible burn marks (the missile exploded)
3) The whole engagement took place over 10s, if not, 100s, of square miles in mountain area, within 24 hours India found a small piece and bought it to Delhi
4) Said piece is not publicly displayed (like India loves to do with any tiny war trophy or even fake trophies).


I was sceptical with regards to a PAF SU-30 claim in the past, but the more I think about it, the logical conclusion is that a SU-30 managed to make it back to Indian occupied areas, pilots were rescued and AMRAAM wreckage found.


The above is the only possible explanation.

 

[UKBengali]

The su-30MKI is still the best aircraft in the region.The r-77 was inferior in range to AMRAAM,thats why we switched to astra and r-77-1.The AMRAAM missile still couldn't escape the jamming power of MKI .In an all out airwar PAF would be decimated within 72 hours even without rafale,albeit while causing heavy lossess for us.Rafale and s-400 is to win without heavy losses with total technological overmatch.

Without Rafale and your 270 SU-30MKIs being decades out of date by now, I am not so sure that India would even win if it went full in on PAF.

Remember that PAF has over 200 F-16 and JF-17s that are better electronically than anything India has bar the small number of Rafales just coming in now. Your SU-30MKI upgrade has still not started yet.

If a full scale air-war happened now between PAF and IAF, it will be close fight as PAF still has the advantage of better aircraft overall and a more integrated network(AWACS, Jamming planes etc) which may give them the edge.

Going forward as more Rafales arrive and SU-30MKI upgrades start rolling off the production line, with IAF working hard on it's support platforms((AWACS, Jamming planes etc), then I expect IAF to take a clear lead over the PAF as this decade progresses. The induction of the JF-17 Block 3 by the PAF will not be enough to keep up with IAF modernisation.

 

[jk007]

Windjammer, this is indeed something I have found very curious ever since 27th Feb and something PAF never exploited for PR

1) Dud missiles usually land intact
2) The missile fragments shown by India had visible burn marks (the missile exploded)
3) The whole engagement took place over 10s, if not, 100s, of square miles in mountain area, within 24 hours India found a small piece and bought it to Delhi
4) Said piece is not publicly displayed (like India loves to do with any tiny war trophy or even fake trophies).


I was sceptical with regards to a PAF SU-30 claim in the past, but the more I think about it, the logical conclusion is that a SU-30 managed to make it back to Indian occupied areas, pilots were rescued and AMRAAM wreckage found.


The above is the only possible explanation.

What if the high technology items like that amraam missile are designed to self denote instead of landing intact on land (to deny the possibility of reverse engineer)?