27 Feb 19: PAF shot down two Indian aircrafts inside Pakistani airspace: DG ISPR

[TheTallGuy]

@NA71
i am expecting big poop from Indians and then mutiny then serious clashes! mind you i am afraid we will have to fight with what we have now in hand!

Allah hamara hami o Nasir Ho!

 

[NA71]

@NA71
i am expecting big poop from Indians and then mutiny then serious clashes! mind you i am afraid we will have to fight with what we have now in hand!

Allah hamara hami o Nasir Ho!

Ji bilkul sahi, remember, we were predicting this since March this year.

The latest is Prime Minister, IK, has just called emergency meeting ...all civil and military leadership will attend.

 

[TheTallGuy]

Trump revelation about modi proposal did more harm then good! he has made monkey jump from Wall

 

[NA71]

 

[denel]

Actually therein lies the core malaise of the IAF. Their top brass more than their pilots are at fault. It is the job and & duty of the top brass to formulate and devise correct doctrines & strategy. Based on which tactics are developed and assets are acquired & organized. That they didn't see this coming especially after the events of the 26th and were not prepared in general for such a possibility at all, does not bode well for the IAF think tanks as a whole. Especially when the Pakistani PM and DG ISPR categorically had stated earlier that we would retaliate to any aggression. Something tells me that even if they did learn from this mistake, they are set to make new ones (mistakes) if they try to jump the gun again. You cannot change your way of thinking on which your entire careers have been based, overnight, this will take time to rectify. The capacity that the IAF needs to build is not just assets (they have plenty), but how their personnel can make optimum use of their assets to achieve their objectives. Their training and tactics need a thorough review. IAF had BVR way way before than PAF i.e. way more seasoned in using BVRs than the PAF. Yet they couldn't drive that head start and greater experience to a telling advantage on the 27th. Furthermore they had been practicing against F-16s of the Singapore, Korea and UAE air forces for more than a decade now ... yet they get out gunned and out distanced by AMRAAM's (choosing words from Indian media)? Food for thought indeed.

too much masala chai and curry by their top brass. - throwing it in just for fun. they have become very complacent.

 

[Counterpunch]

View attachment 572510

This is coming from Sabir Shakir's fan boy page..so even lesser credibility

 

[araz]

Trump revelation about modi proposal did more harm then good! he has made monkey jump from Wall

I think there is more to this than meets the eye. Trump may have knowingly and willingly put Indians under pressure and Modi is trying to relieve this pressure by asking the forces to intervene in Kashmir. The likelihood is either that the UN Steps in giving India face and settles Kashmir down. We are also into August so come October the snow will start and movement will become progressively difficult. So they might want to exert control before the winter sets in.
This is interesting in:-
A. How Pakistan plays this. We are in a very difficult political and strategic situation. Hate it, as we might, we cannot intervene militarily because then Indians will get back to their original line of Kashmir terror is the result of Pakistani intervention. However we cannot ignore this either.
B. How does the world react especially China and Russia. There are many permutations to this but all lead to a humanitarian disaster.
C. The US great game . Is this a ploy to occupy the regional powers while extracting the majority of its soldiers from Afghanistan. Looking at their history they have done this before. The other more simplistic situation is the grounds being prepared for final action of the powers that be in Kashmir. Do they then take this aituation to boot India out of Kashmir and set up shop in Kashmir under UN auspices to eventually set up a state of Kashmir and set up a protectorate Governement. This may allow them to exit from Afghanistan into a land of greater proximity to all parties concerned. How this will play out could have serious repercussions.
The clouds of war and chaos are certainly descending on Kashmir. It will require a lot of sacrifices from the local populace if they want a home land. It needs to remain an internal struggle and this is the most painful bit of this whole episode. I wish the Kashmiri leaders had helped Paklands in the 60s to resolve this issue.
Let us however see how this cookie crumbles.
A

 

[TheTallGuy]

@araz

 

[BATMAN]

I think there is more to this than meets the eye. Trump may have knowingly and willingly put Indians under pressure and Modi is trying to relieve this pressure by asking the forces to intervene in Kashmir. The likelihood is either that the UN Steps in giving India face and settles Kashmir down. We are also into August so come October the snow will start and movement will become progressively difficult. So they might want to exert control before the winter sets in.
This is interesting in:-
A. How Pakistan plays this. We are in a very difficult political and strategic situation. Hate it as we might we cannot intervene militarily because then Indians will get back to their original line of Kashmir terror is the result of Pakistani intervention. However we cannot ignore this either.
B. How does the world react especially China and Russia. There are many permutations to this but all lead to a human8tarian disaster.
C. The US great game . Is this a ploy to occupy the regional powers while extracting the majority of its soldiesrs from Afghanistan. Looking at their history they have done this before. The other more simplistic situation is the grounds being prepared for final action of the powers that be in Kashmir. Do they then take this aituation to boot India out of Kashmir and set up shop in Kashmir under UN auspices to eventually set up a state of Kashmir and set up a protectorate Governement. This may allow them to exit from Afghanistan into a land of greater proximity to all parties concerned. How this will play out could have serious repercussions.
The clouds of war and chaos are certainly descending on Kashmir. It will require a lot of sacrifices from the local populace if they want a home land. It needs to remain an internal struggle and this is the most painful bit of this whole episode. I wish the Kashmiri leaders had helped Paklands in the 60s to resolve this issue.
Let us however see how this cookie crumbles.
A

Hi, IMO current military buildup has nothing to do with Trump's offer of mediation between Ind /Pak.
I don't expect Indian establishment to react like a 5 year old kid.
There must be some other driving factor or plan.

 

[araz]

@araz

As I have said there will be release of pressure from the Kashmir situation to involve Paklands. This may also translate into Bajwa's extension as the Chief cannot go at this juncture. This situation is bad in that it is ill thought out and once war starts it will have a momentum of its own.
A

Hi, IMO current military buildup has nothing to do with Trump's offer of mediation between Ind /Pak.
I don't expect Indian establishment to behave like a 5 year old kid.
There must be some other driving factor or plan.

I have merely set out a few points for discussion. Trump's support and to be honest their think tanks have been saying this for some time that the biggest carrot to dangle in front of Paklands maybe Kashmir. India had 700000 forces permanently stationed in Kashmir. The terrain may not be suitable for soldiers for long so they might want things to simmer with Pak lands with air engagements.
We need to see how our friends will respond as well. Let us see what comes out of China for instance.
There are so many permutations to this.
A

 

[TheTallGuy]

they might want things to simmer with Pak lands with air engagements.

i am afraid this exactly whats gonna happen, they have already place 100+ units in IHK for sake of exercises..

 

[BATMAN]

I have merely set out a few points for discussion. Trump's support and to be honest their think tanks have been saying this for some time that the biggest carrot to dangle in front of Paklands maybe Kashmir. India had 700000 forces permanently stationed in Kashmir. The terrain may not be suitable for soldiers for long so they might want things to simmer with Pak lands with air engagements.
We need to see how our friends will respond as well. Let us see what comes out of China for instance.
There are so many permutations to this.
A

If India is playing the US game than this game is dangerous for Pakistan.

 

[araz]

If India is playing the US game than this game is dangerous for Pakistan.

The definition of danger has changed in this whole scenario. The lower our reserves to fight back the higher the risk of Nuke exchange and annihilation on both sides. We have not got 200 odd nukes to play doll with.
A

i am afraid this exactly whats gonna happen, they have already place 100+ units in IHK for sake of exercises..

Do you know whether they have added to their inventory or whether they are still relying on old weapons. I understand that the 27/2 scenario was a different situation altogether but still it did put IAF on the defensive in spite of their "we downed an F16 with out Mig21 charade" even when the whole world has seen all 4 mijjjjiles intact on the Abhi none done plane. Help would be appreciated.
A

 

[NA71]

Pak should consult with its reliable partners/friends ...media analysts are saying Indians trying to expand LoC further into Azad Kashmir(Azad Kashmir) as a strategic move.

Yes, some important decisions have been made in today's security meeting headed by PM. Aug 6 to 8 is critical.

 

[SIPRA]

Aug 6 to 8 is critical.

Why?