2 soldiers embraced shahadat during an IBO in Central Kurram

[iLION12345_1]

Another IBO without aerial surveillance.... Criminal negligence. These casualties should not be happening.

On what basis did you assume it did not have aerial surveillance. How is that surveillance useful for stopping enemy bullets or for spotting enemies located inside caves and buildings (as in this clearance OP). How is it possible for casualties to not take place on both sides in a war? Complaining about Deaths due to IEDs because troops did not have MRAPs is completely justified and is criminal negligence. But There isn’t a way to stop an enemy ambush or cross border attack before they happens or to ensure casualties do not occur due to these, nor can any sort of technology ensure that no casualties occur, as is apparent with the performance of much better equipped and funded armies in COIN ops.

FYI. The FC has its own helicopters and the army does provide aerial Surveillance during such Ops with both drones and helicopters as has been seen before.…

 

[Inception-06]

On what basis did you assume it did not have aerial surveillance. How is that surveillance useful for stopping enemy bullets or for spotting enemies located inside caves and buildings (as in this clearance OP). How is it possible for casualties to not take place on both sides in a war? Complaining about Deaths due to IEDs because troops did not have MRAPs is completely justified and is criminal negligence. But There isn’t a way to stop an enemy ambush or cross border attack before they happens or to ensure casualties do not occur due to these, nor can any sort of technology ensure that no casualties occur, as is apparent with the performance of much better equipped and funded armies in COIN ops.

FYI. The FC has its own helicopters and the army does provide aerial Surveillance during such Ops with both drones and helicopters as has been seen before.…

Its our right to demand progress ! Otherwise the Authorities must present the positive results for such huge casualties.

 

[iLION12345_1]

Its our right to demand progress ! Otherwise the Authorities must present the positive results for such huge casualties.

Progress is present brother, so are the results, compare it to the last 20 years, currently we are in precarious times due to all the important geopolitical happenings, that’s why these elements are trying to get attention.

I am also saddened by all these shahadats, I also think the government and the generals are not doing enough in certain matters. I just don’t want people to think that we’re going down a hole or that things are as bad as social media makes them out to be. Our troops surely can be giver better equipment, better cover, better planning, but that is such a small part to fixing these attacks, all the other factors will negate these, namely all the external help these terrorists get and all the people inside the country who support this external help. Stopping that will stop these attacks, sadly That’s a slow an arduous process that cannot be fixed by shooting. These men are dying so we don’t have to die during that process, how much luckier could we be

 

[Moon]

On what basis did you assume it did not have aerial surveillance. How is that surveillance useful for stopping enemy bullets or for spotting enemies located inside caves and buildings (as in this clearance OP). How is it possible for casualties to not take place on both sides in a war? Complaining about Deaths due to IEDs because troops did not have MRAPs is completely justified and is criminal negligence. But There isn’t a way to stop an enemy ambush or cross border attack before they happens or to ensure casualties do not occur due to these, nor can any sort of technology ensure that no casualties occur, as is apparent with the performance of much better equipped and funded armies in COIN ops.

FYI. The FC has its own helicopters and the army does provide aerial Surveillance during such Ops with both drones and helicopters as has been seen before.…

I can bet you, they weren't using Aerial Surveillance in this operation and neither in prior IBOs. Aerial support/ISR was scarce even during ZeA, multiple troops and officers can attest to that. Our Armed Forces never bothered in investing in cheap COIN aircrafts.

 

[iLION12345_1]

I can bet you, they weren't using Aerial Surveillance in this operation and neither in prior IBOs. Aerial support/ISR was scarce even during ZeA, multiple troops and officers can attest to that. Our Armed Forces never bothered in investing in cheap COIN aircrafts.

Then you will lose that bet. Aerial surveillance was present and in common use throughout ZeA and is still in use now. I don’t know where you’re getting your info from. What use are “cheap COIN aircraft” to an armed forces which has a hundred gunships and 500+ jets, both of which saw extensive use in Ops even as far back as 2009.

Aerial surveillance cannot prevent casualties. What can the guy sitting in a helicopter do for the men getting shot at inside a cave?

 

[Moon]

Then you will lose that bet. Aerial surveillance was present and in common use throughout ZeA and is still in use now. I don’t know where you’re getting your info from. What use are “cheap COIN aircraft” to an armed forces which has a hundred gunships and 500+ jets, both of which saw extensive use in Ops even as far back as 2009.

Aerial surveillance cannot prevent casualties. What can the guy sitting in a helicopter do for the men getting shot at inside a cave?

We've lost troops on ambushes on main highways, in firefights/raids on checkposts lasting several hours and what not, where was all of this air support?
You're confusing jets that literally burn cash, with cheap COIN aircrafts that don't cost a penny (relatively ).

As for caves, no-one enters them without adequate measures and there are cave clearing tactics, ranging from grenades to small drones (which we don't have).

And role of aircrafts/drones isn't limited to just a small engagement, but to loiter in an area of conflict, looking for signs of enemy movement and tracking them, vectoring QRFs to their exact spot.

 

[iLION12345_1]

We've lost troops on ambushes on main highways, in firefights/raids on checkposts lasting several hours and what not, where was all of this air support?
You're confusing jets that literally burn cash, with cheap COIN aircrafts that don't cost a penny (relatively ).

As for caves, no-one enters them without adequate measures and there are cave clearing tactics, ranging from grenades to small drones (which we don't have).

And role of aircrafts/drones isn't limited to just a small engagement, but to loiter in an area of conflict, looking for signs of enemy movement and tracking them, vectoring QRFs to their exact spot.

I already said complaining about the other cases was justified but sadly most of you live in an ideal world and just don’t want to understand the reality of war.

Cheap COIN aircraft won’t change a thing for the PA because PAF has shown it doesn’t care about the operating costs when using its jets for strikes. Also gunships are much better for ground support than Cheap or even purpose built CAS aircraft, which is why PA has invested in and used them heavily. Does that mean air support has lacked recently? Maybe, Which is again, fair to complain about.

As for the rest, do you truly believe PA doesn’t know all of this and doesn’t practice it while entering caves or using drones and aircraft? If so please call them and teach them how it’s done.

If they weren’t using these practices the casualties would be 10x higher. Why do you think PA has similar or even less casualties at times compared to US and coalition forces deployed around the world for COIN Ops, despite them having unlimited money and every single gadget on the planet to help them? Because PA has experience and uses all of the aforementioned things too, or at least what it has.
And if casualties happen when all the things you mentioned are present, as with the coalition forces, how would they not be present for PA? Casualties happen in war, that’s the basic truth of it.

I don’t believe for a second that PA has perfect practices or the generals and government are doing enough, but handing PA and MRAP or giving them another drone won’t solve a thing, this is like my 12th time repeating this, Pakistanis keep barking up the wrong tree, Nobody is complaining this much about all the traitors inside the country selling out the armed forces to foreign powers for their personal gains or the public which barely supports the country in most metrics, which is what allows these attacks to continue happening, but everyone is instead asking about MRAPs and Drones which would have no effect on the outcome of this war at the current stage because casualties will still happen.

I feel terrible trying to justify the loss of our men every single day to get a point across, because in no way am I happy about it or disagree with giving our men better equipment and more air cover, but it seems the point never does get across. Pakistanis just get emotional before they understand the realities of the PAs situation.

 

[Sifar zero]

Perhaps though i wouldn't be surprised if it isnt due to a mass report, Waleed (The person who owns that account) has a history of doing pretty nasty stuff. Last time he was banned for threatening to rape a woman.

Really can you add more info?

 

[Moon]

I already said complaining about the other cases was justified but sadly most of you live in an ideal world and just don’t want to understand the reality of war.

Cheap COIN aircraft won’t change a thing for the PA because PAF has shown it doesn’t care about the operating costs when using its jets for strikes. Also gunships are much better for ground support than Cheap or even purpose built CAS aircraft, which is why PA has invested in and used them heavily. Does that mean air support has lacked recently? Maybe, Which is again, fair to complain about.

As for the rest, do you truly believe PA doesn’t know all of this and doesn’t practice it while entering caves or using drones and aircraft? If so please call them and teach them how it’s done.

If they weren’t using these practices the casualties would be 10x higher. Why do you think PA has similar or even less casualties at times compared to US and coalition forces deployed around the world for COIN Ops, despite them having unlimited money and every single gadget on the planet to help them? Because PA has experience and uses all of the aforementioned things too, or at least what it has.
And if casualties happen when all the things you mentioned are present, as with the coalition forces, how would they not be present for PA? Casualties happen in war, that’s the basic truth of it.

I don’t believe for a second that PA has perfect practices or the generals and government are doing enough, but handing PA and MRAP or giving them another drone won’t solve a thing, this is like my 12th time repeating this, Pakistanis keep barking up the wrong tree, Nobody is complaining this much about all the traitors inside the country selling out the armed forces to foreign powers for their personal gains or the public which barely supports the country in most metrics, which is what allows these attacks to continue happening, but everyone is instead asking about MRAPs and Drones which would have no effect on the outcome of this war at the current stage because casualties will still happen.

I feel terrible trying to justify the loss of our men every single day to get a point across, because in no way am I happy about it or disagree with giving our men better equipment and more air cover, but it seems the point never does get across. Pakistanis just get emotional before they understand the realities of the PAs situation.

There are multiple videos released by terrorists showing engagements between them and SFs going on for hours, without any sort of backup or aerial support. This isn't about being emotional, its about being a realist, the fact is, PA has failed to deploy cheap emerging technology against the enemy. Full stop.

 

[imadul]

The news is true man. No point of being in denial. Thanks to our leadership we are loosing soldiers all over again Waziristan. Sorry to say but General Qamar Javed Bajwa needs to retire and let someone else become chief. Plus we need to launch operation in Afghanistan against TTP, ISIS and Baluch insurgents.

I will fire this looser of the general.
He and IK just cower on slight shoo of FATAF.
No vision to grab and lead by taking initiative. Defense and reaction is no POLICY.

 

[iLION12345_1]

There are multiple videos released by terrorists showing engagements between them and SFs going on for hours, without any sort of backup or aerial support. This isn't about being emotional, its about being a realist, the fact is, PA has failed to deploy cheap emerging technology against the enemy. Full stop.

People like you are why this nation fails to fix its issues. Because we keep trying to trim the hedge but fail to uproot the plant. And then you talk about being a realist.

Where are Your “plenty of clips?” I’d love to see them. you probably don’t understand the ground reality of any of them either and just saw 30 seconds and decided PA has no air support. There’s more clips of PA helis and drones hunting terrorists, does that suddenly mean I’m right? Nope.
Not to mention just a couple of weeks ago when these same miscreants tried to attack a PA convoy…guess what happened? It had air cover and they got blown to bits. I remember as far back as 2009 in swat when convoys would travel down roads Cobras would fly above them, every single time.
If you really think PA lacks these basic things then please, take over their Ops and tell them how it’s done, because clearly PA lacks even the basic knowledge of doing COIN Ops and intellectuals like you cleared out SWAT and FATA.

Either way, I’m done derailing the thread, there is little point to this argument, the most we can do is hope things improve, both at the helm of the PA and elsewhere in the country. At the end of the day Regardless of how these attacks happen, they are a major loss to the country.

 

[Inception-06]

Progress is present brother, so are the results, compare it to the last 20 years, currently we are in precarious times due to all the important geopolitical happenings, that’s why these elements are trying to get attention.

namely all the external help these terrorists get and all the people inside the country who support this external help. Stopping that will stop these attacks

I will tell you what people things it's very easy: We are not doing enough and why not?


It's just not enough, we are not doing enough! That's the point, yes MRAPS will not save lives, present us what will save us?

The Generals must explain the daily casualties, they have to show results, and in the last 2 years, it's going dark again!

North Korea has a bigger enemy than Pakistan, the world superpower USA, but there are no bomb blasts or any type of attacks like Pakistan why? If these goons can save their country, then why not our mighty Military ? We won't conquer India, and liberate Kashmir, I don't think so, we have to do our homework and make the HOME land safe, then turn to India, that's easy math! We are waiting since 1999 or 1971?




Show us the mighty light, enlighten us why we don't hit the enemy's bases, camps nests!

If Indians can carry out surgical strikes and cross Border attacks on Pakistan legitimated by the whole world for eliminating terrorists, what our Drone squadrons are waiting for? What the hell is stopping Pakistan? Are we only good at shooting down Indian migs ? While our homeland is fisted by the hornets, the hornet nest must be attacked, a starting campaign would be attacking terrorist training Camps, where ever they are located. All this Cry about RAW and NDS, yes they are the enemies but are we doing enough? I don't think so, otherwise, Pakistan would look different today and in the past 20 years!

 

[iLION12345_1]

I will tell you what people things it's very easy: We are not doing enough and why not?


It's just not enough, we are not doing enough! That's the point, yes MRAPS will not save lives, present us what will save us?

The Generals must explain the daily casualties, they have to show results, and in the last 2 years, it's going dark again !


Show us the mighty light, enlighten us why we don't hit the enemy's bases, camps nests!

If Indians can carry out surgical strikes and cross Border attacks on Pakistan legitimated by the whole world for eliminating terrorists, what our Drone squadrons are waiting for? What the hell is stopping Pakistan? Are we only good at shooting down Indian migs ? While our homeland is fisted by the hornets, the hornet nest must be attacked, a starting campaign would be attacking terrorist training Camps, where ever they are located. All this Cry about RAW and NDS, yes they are the enemies but are we doing enough,I don't think so, otherwise, Pakistan would look different today and in the past 20 years!

I cannot disagree with you on most of this, I am waiting for an answer too

 

[Sifar zero]

There are multiple videos released by terrorists showing engagements between them and SFs going on for hours, without any sort of backup or aerial support. This isn't about being emotional, its about being a realist, the fact is, PA has failed to deploy cheap emerging technology against the enemy. Full stop.

Can you describe one?

 

[Inception-06]

People like you are why this nation fails to fix its issues. Because we keep trying to trim the hedge but fail to uproot the plant. And then you talk about being a realist.

Where are Your “plenty of clips?” I’d love to see them. you probably don’t understand the ground reality of any of them either and just saw 30 seconds and decided PA has no air support. There’s more clips of PA helis and drones hunting terrorists, does that suddenly mean I’m right? Nope.
Not to mention just a couple of weeks ago when these same miscreants tried to attack a PA convoy…guess what happened? It had air cover and they got blown to bits. I remember as far back as 2009 in swat when convoys would travel down roads Cobras would fly above them, every single time.
If you really think PA lacks these basic things then please, take over their Ops and tell them how it’s done, because clearly PA lacks even the basic knowledge of doing COIN Ops and intellectuals like you cleared out SWAT and FATA.

Either way, I’m done derailing the thread, there is little point to this argument, the most we can do is hope things improve, both at the helm of the PA and elsewhere in the country. At the end of the day Regardless of how these attacks happen, they are a major loss to the country.

bro just make a little research on youtube, sort the clips by date, I am doing these for 4 years, and you will finde old and fresh clips, which nobody wants to see, how the enemies are killing our Brothers!