19 PAF Aircraft to participate in exercise with PLAAF

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

All this time India kept crying the "wolf" of two front war. Now it's looking more and more like a possible reality because of Indian aggression and hegemonic designs.

If it had just been India, then Beijing would have found a way to contain it (as it had for the past 60+ years) diplomatically. However, India's adversarial tones today are being driven in concert with US interests, which actively aim to contain China.

China now has to see India in that light, which means that defence ties with Pakistan are of even greater importance. The U.S. to be careful as well, lest its "do more" message for COIN in FATA be construed by Pakistan's leadership as a mulligan for India (freeing India to only focus on China and not China-Pakistan).

For China, a major solution would be for Pakistan to basically thin its COIN presence to a force that is suitable exclusively for Pakistani interests (i.e. not the U.S. in Afghanistan) and rebuild its conventional force orientation for India. However, China will never interfere with Pakistan's political processes or power dynamics (non-interference is one of Beijing's core values).

It'll be up to Pakistani leaders to ultimately decide, and that will mean closing a few bridges with the U.S. Never an easy or straightforward decision, even for the best of leaders.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Ironically ; It is all in China's hands that is which way India moves

We have always said that we want friendship with China

The more China pushes India ; we move closer to USA

Even today our officials are talking inspite of all the rhetoric of Global times
and even after 50 days of standoff there has been NO firing

China too will realise that it is only facilitating US interests by pushing India
for what ; a small plateau -- makes no geo strategic sense

At this stage I think India is firmly with the U.S. It may seem light on the political end, but from inter-military, economic and increasingly inter-defence industry relations, India and the U.S. have built way too many expensive bridges to risk burning. The momentum is now heading to its logical next chapter, i.e. working to contain China.

 

[Talon]

All depends on the package. You can get just the hardware for around $300,000 to $500,000 depending on the options. However, PAF is selling complete packages including setting up of full maintenance facilities plus full training. In some cases like in Qatar the package include instructors for ongoing training of Qatari pilots and in other cases the package is limited to training the trainers. With a full package the price can be significantly higher than a million dollar per plane.

There's a lot of difference b/w sale to a military customer and a civilian who just wants to buy one plane.

Ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooohhhhhh

Will they be sharing the recent learnings from Mobility exercise in the US? Will our pilots get hands on with J-10C? Would they simulate a mock fight by crossing the border where they will be 'intercepted' by F-16s????? Will our pilots get hands on with SU-30?

bhaii PAF has more than 1 c130s...the one in US is separate a/c .-.

 

[CriticalThought]

If it had just been India, then Beijing would have found a way to contain it (as it had for the past 60+ years) diplomatically. However, India's adversarial tones today are being driven in concert with US interests, which actively aim to contain China.

China now has to see India in that light, which means that defence ties with Pakistan are of even greater importance. The U.S. to be careful as well, lest its "do more" message for COIN in FATA be construed by Pakistan's leadership as a mulligan for India (freeing India to only focus on China and not China-Pakistan).

For China, a major solution would be for Pakistan to basically thin its COIN presence to a force that is suitable exclusively for Pakistani interests (i.e. not the U.S. in Afghanistan) and rebuild its conventional force orientation for India. However, China will never interfere with Pakistan's political processes or power dynamics (non-interference is one of Beijing's core values).

It'll be up to Pakistani leaders to ultimately decide, and that will mean closing a few bridges with the U.S. Never an easy or straightforward decision, even for the best of leaders.

If the US enters the fray, then Russia may be compelled to enter as well. It will spiral into a world war very quickly. US will use India as a proxy, supplying it with latest technology, resources, and materials, without getting involved. If China and Pakistan are weakened considerably, they might do a swift operation against our nukes and against North Korea. But before any of that happens, North Korea will already engage them with nuclear ICBMs. And Iran may start something in Gulf. Between Iran, North Korea and Russia, and Trump's natural inclination to pull back and concentrate on 'Making America Great', I don't think America will be actively involved in a war. Nations such as Australia, South Korea, and Japan don't have the hawkish attitude to run full force into a foreign war. Because of Chinese association, it will be interesting to observe how Singapore responds. And of course there is Myanmar as well.

 

[Dr Shaheryar]

Kindly go through the report submitted by US Naval chief, where he admits that their superiority over seas can be challenged by China nowadays. their subs surpasses the strength of US subs.

 

[Chak Bamu]

Dear All, this is not thread about how 3rd world war might start. It is only about PAF aircraft in exercise with China.

Can we all just stick to the topic?

 

[Dazzler]

@waz @Oscar

gentlemen, you are needed here.

 

[GRIFFINTOPGUN]

Hey hey hey
We are proud that our f7 can take on the best. Have you forgotten how even f14 during exercise in pakistan were defeated by f6 aircraft. It's not the machine but the men behind the machine

I had read that our F7 pilot has taken shot of EuroFighter in exercise . Concerned n close ppl can add further.

 

[CHI RULES]

In the end their is no substitute to tech, our F16 are better in tech and may be a challenge for IAF Rafaels but I do not think our F7pgs shall be relevant in BVR warfare. Moreover the exercises conducted have certain rules/limitations so cannot be substitute for actual war. We should stop using references of past exercises just done by Indians.

One must hope that current exercise should be eye opener for PAF/Pak Govt. They should start to materialize block-III JF17s at fast pace with capable gadgets. Further should also go for induction of medium/heavy weight fighter/bomber like J16 or J11D variant if we want to keep some parity with IAF.

In war scenario no doubt initially the superior training and tactics shall count but in longer terms shall over come by numbers and better tech. That's bitter reality what we have faced in 1971 IN attack on Karachi port where adversaries had ASHMs and we had none defence capabilities with obsolete CIWS and machine guns.

The same scenario is here no doubt our AAMs are quite accurate yet not of era of AAMs our adversary has. Further IAF fighters have gone through extensive upgrades.

Reality check is we cannot use our F16s for deep penetration strikes meanwhile Mirages have also passed their useful life.

 

[Hu Yao]

Well， Maybe next time China should send the new Su-35BM to pakistan to fight F-16 Block 52.

Both Pakistan and China will be more famaliar to their enemies. Chinese Su-35 is far better than Indian Su-30MKI，and PAF F-16 is far better tan ROC F-16A MLU。

In the end their is no substitute to tech, our F16 are better in tech and may be a challenge for IAF Rafaels but I do not think our F7pgs shall be relevant in BVR warfare. Moreover the exercises conducted have certain rules/limitations so cannot be substitute for actual war. We should stop using references of past exercises just done by Indians.

One must hope that current exercise should be eye opener for PAF/Pak Govt. They should start to materialize block-III JF17s at fast pace with capable gadgets. Further should also go for induction of medium/heavy weight fighter/bomber like J16 or J11D variant if we want to keep some parity with IAF.

In war scenario no doubt initially the superior training and tactics shall count but in longer terms shall over come by numbers and better tech. That's bitter reality what we have faced in 1971 IN attack on Karachi port where adversaries had ASHMs and we had none defence capabilities with obsolete CIWS and machine guns.

The same scenario is here no doubt our AAMs are quite accurate yet not of era of AAMs our adversary has. Further IAF fighters have gone through extensive upgrades.

Reality check is we cannot use our F16s for deep penetration strikes meanwhile Mirages have also passed their useful life.

Let your F-7PG have BVR ability is possible. First, the new PL-10 AAM has a really good range compare to MICA-IR
for Indian Rafale. And there is a new PESA radar in Chinese L-15 Trainer can be put in PAF F-7PG.

The Key problem is the willing of PAF. Is it necessery to upgrade a low end jet with those expensive weapons?

 

[litman]

Well， Maybe next time China should send the new Su-35BM to pakistan to fight F-16 Block 52.

Both Pakistan and China will be more famaliar to their enemies. Chinese Su-35 is far better than Indian Su-30MKI，and PAF F-16 is far better tan ROC F-16A MLU。



Let your F-7PG have BVR ability is possible. First, the new PL-10 AAM has a really good range compare to MICA-IR
for Indian Rafale. And there is a new PESA radar in Chinese L-15 Trainer can be put in PAF F-7PG.

The Key problem is the willing of PAF. Is it necessery to upgrade a low end jet with those expensive weapons?

PAF can never fly F-16s against Su 35 in exercises without uncle sam's permission. the americans think that it may uncover some cutting edge tech of the F-16 to the chinese. I dont know what's so cutting edge in block 52 f-16 which su 35 doesnt have. reportedly Su 35 has already many features of fifth gen jets. probably USA is just pressurizing pak through these F-16s. PAF is so much obsessed with F-16 and USA that they cant see beyond it. upgrading F-7 is unlikely and not advisable. this junk has completed its time and is nothing more then then flying coffins. they need to be replaced with JFT or any other better plane as soon as possible. same goes for the mirages who have completed their fifty yrs in PAF.

 

[Khadim e Darul Ehsaan]

probably f7s and thunders and MAYBEEEE mirages.


khuda ka naam lo bhaii f7 is no match to viper..i can tell u of a 2v1 mission of paf(the f7 pilot told me this) i.e 1 f16 vs 2 f7s and the viper took out both f7s within seconds after interception..wish i could explain that with hand signals how he did that..

Can jf17 stand against f16s?

 

[syed_yusuf]

Can jf17 stand against f16s?

Yes

 

[Talon]

Can jf17 stand against f16s?

DACTs are performed under controlled and set scenarios and in that case even an F7 can beat F16..so yeah JF17 can stand against F16 and of course it depends on pilot's skills as well..but there are lot of things that depend in a proper engagement so there is no solid YES or NO

 

[ZAC1]

seniors whats the result....how did our jf-17 performed ?