12000 HP Locomotives for Indian Railways

[anant_s]

railway terms here, thanks for tagging me and sharing these wonderful photos on IR. (Don't hesitate to tag me again though I don't know what does "tap changer" refer to)

Ok some technical 'help' coming up tomorrow.
If u remember i asked if there are books on Chinese Railways. As it turns out Chinese Railway too is using this Tap Changer technology, although i'm not sure what it is reffered to as.
I'll write a small writeup on Tap Changer and GTO/IGBT traction on your Chinese HST thread and i hope by mutual discussion we will learn a few things.

 

[Grevion]

There are a few scattered threads on pdf on IR. A few started by me are:
Indian Railways Freight Transportation: Past, Present & Future
Indian Railway Photography & Stories
Apart from this one, where we keep on posting a lot of things related to IR Locomotives.
Maybe you can start one thread and tag us along. I'll be happy to contribute

No sir I dont have much photos of the railway stations in India.
I will try and collect as much photos of them as I can and then will create a new thread in a few days.

 

[Ankit Kumar]

Ok some technical 'help' coming up tomorrow.
If u remember i asked if there are books on Chinese Railways. As it turns out Chinese Railway too is using this Tap Changer technology, although i'm not sure what it is reffered to as.
I'll write a small writeup on Tap Changer and GTO/IGBT traction on your Chinese HST thread and i hope by mutual discussion we will learn a few things.

Do tag me

 

[anant_s]

Railways to manufacture dual-mode locomotives that run on diesel, electricity

PTI | Jan 17, 2016, 01.18PM IST


NEW DELHI: In a first for Indian Railways, diesel locomotives will soon haul trains by drawing power through overhead wires on an electrified route, with the public transporter embarking upon manufacturing dual-mode engines.

"We will be manufacturing dual-mode locomotives to run trains on diesel and also by drawing power through overhead wire on electrified route," said a senior railway ministry official involved in the project.

Railways will manufacture five dual-mode locomotives of 4500 horse power (HP) capacity each at Diesel Locomotive Works in Varanasi as a pilot project.

Though similar locomotives are operational in the US and South Africa, it will be a first in India, the official said.

Currently, 52 per cent of total trains are on diesel traction. Diesel locomotives are generally replaced by electric engines on electrified route causing delays.

"However, with the acquisition of dual-mode locos, there will be no need for changing the locomotive for electric traction as the same diesel engine will be utilized on electrified route," he said.

A dual-mode locomotive is estimated to cost about Rs 18 crore, while a 4500 HP diesel locomotive costs about Rs 13 crore.

The proposal has been forwarded to the Research Design and Standard Design (RDSO), the research wing of Indian Railway, to finalize specifications.

"After the RDSO approval, DLW will be manufacturing five such locos on a pilot basis. The locos will be pressed into service on certain electrified routes on a trial basis," said the official.

The dual-mode locomotive will be heavier than the diesel locomotive and is expected to run at a maximum speed of 135 km per hour.

A diesel locomotive is a type of railway locomotive in which the prime mover is a diesel engine, while in an electric locomotive, the engine moves on power drawn through a pantograph mounted on the roof of the train.

Pantograph is an apparatus mounted on the roof of an electric train, tram or electric bus to collect power through contact with an overhead wire.

Railways to manufacture dual-mode locomotives that run on diesel, electricity - Times of India

Why did it take so long, @anant_s ?

I think its a dumb idea honestly.
There are a very few trains that get their schedule affected by power change (E to D or vice-versa).
In terms of operational practices, such trains are always served better by running end to end under Diesel power.
& i'm not sure of two things:
a. 4500 HP is about equivalent to WCAM 2 under AC traction so won't do more than 120kph with 22 coach train
b. With a DG and a transformer on board, how are they going to limit load to 21 T/axle? For comparison WAG 7 weighs 127 tons and WDG 4 ~125 tons.

JMHO, but i suppose they should focus on 7000 HP (WAP 7D) and WDP 6 (6000 HP version of upcoming GE 6000 HP AC6000 model).

 

[H.B.]

I think its a dumb idea honestly.
There are a very few trains that get their schedule affected by power change (E to D or vice-versa).
In terms of operational practices, such trains are always served better by running end to end under Diesel power.
& i'm not sure of two things:
a. 4500 HP is about equivalent to WCAM 2 under AC traction so won't do more than 120kph with 22 coach train
b. With a DG and a transformer on board, how are they going to limit load to 21 T/axle? For comparison WAG 7 weighs 127 tons and WDG 4 ~125 tons.

JMHO, but i suppose they should focus on 7000 HP (WAP 7D) and WDP 6 (6000 HP version of upcoming GE 6000 HP AC6000 model).

Where do you think there dual-mode engines will be used?

 

[anant_s]

Where do you think there dual-mode engines will be used?

May be the missing link sections (small sections between two electrified territories)

 

[H.B.]

May be the missing link sections (small sections between two electrified territories)

That is a very narrow spectrum of use for such high value assets. You are right, it does not make any sense unless used for long haul.

 

[Ankit Kumar]

I think its a dumb idea honestly.
There are a very few trains that get their schedule affected by power change (E to D or vice-versa).
In terms of operational practices, such trains are always served better by running end to end under Diesel power.
& i'm not sure of two things:
a. 4500 HP is about equivalent to WCAM 2 under AC traction so won't do more than 120kph with 22 coach train
b. With a DG and a transformer on board, how are they going to limit load to 21 T/axle? For comparison WAG 7 weighs 127 tons and WDG 4 ~125 tons.

JMHO, but i suppose they should focus on 7000 HP (WAP 7D) and WDP 6 (6000 HP version of upcoming GE 6000 HP AC6000 model).

They will end up with a coupled WAG 7 and WDG4B, something like what the Russians have in small numbers.

 

[Agent_47]

Indian Railways to manufacture locos that run on diesel, electricity
In a first for Indian Railway, diesel locomotives will soon haul trains by drawing power through overhead wires on an electrified route, with the public transporter embarking upon manufacturing dual-mode engines.
In a first for Indian Railway, diesel locomotives will soon haul trains by drawing power through overhead wires on an electrified route, with the public transporter embarking upon manufacturing dual-mode engines.

“We will be manufacturing dual-mode locomotives to run trains on diesel and also by drawing power through overhead wire on electrified route,” said a senior Railway Ministry official involved in the project.

Railways will manufacture five dual-mode locomotives of 4500 horse power (HP) capacity each at Diesel Locomotive Works in Varanasi as a pilot project.

Though similar locomotives are operational in the US and South Africa, it will be a first in India, the official said.

Currently, 52 per cent of total trains are on diesel traction. Diesel locomotives are generally replaced by electric engines on electrified route causing delays.

“However, with the acquisition of dual-mode locos, there will be no need for changing the locomotive for electric traction as the same diesel engine will be utilised on electrified route,” he said.

A dual-mode locomotive is estimated to cost about Rs 18 crore, while a 4500 HP diesel locomotive costs about Rs 13 crore.

The proposal has been forwarded to the Research Design and Standard Design (RDSO), the research wing of Indian Railway, to finalise specifications.

“After the RDSO approval, DLW will be manufacturing five such locos on a pilot basis. The locos will be pressed into service on certain electrified routes on a trial basis,” said the official.

The dual-mode locomotive will be heavier than the diesel locomotive and is expected to run at a maximum speed of 135 km per hour.

A diesel locomotive is a type of railway locomotive in which the prime mover is a diesel engine, while in an electric locomotive, the engine moves on power drawn through a pantograph mounted on the roof of the train.

Pantograph is an apparatus mounted on the roof of an electric train, tram or electric bus to collect power through contact with an overhead wire.

Indian Railways to manufacture locos that run on diesel, electricity | The Financial Express
do u have more info on this RDSO ? @anant_s

 

[anant_s]

Indian Railways to manufacture locos that run on diesel, electricity
In a first for Indian Railway, diesel locomotives will soon haul trains by drawing power through overhead wires on an electrified route, with the public transporter embarking upon manufacturing dual-mode engines.
In a first for Indian Railway, diesel locomotives will soon haul trains by drawing power through overhead wires on an electrified route, with the public transporter embarking upon manufacturing dual-mode engines.

“We will be manufacturing dual-mode locomotives to run trains on diesel and also by drawing power through overhead wire on electrified route,” said a senior Railway Ministry official involved in the project.

Railways will manufacture five dual-mode locomotives of 4500 horse power (HP) capacity each at Diesel Locomotive Works in Varanasi as a pilot project.

Though similar locomotives are operational in the US and South Africa, it will be a first in India, the official said.

Currently, 52 per cent of total trains are on diesel traction. Diesel locomotives are generally replaced by electric engines on electrified route causing delays.

“However, with the acquisition of dual-mode locos, there will be no need for changing the locomotive for electric traction as the same diesel engine will be utilised on electrified route,” he said.

A dual-mode locomotive is estimated to cost about Rs 18 crore, while a 4500 HP diesel locomotive costs about Rs 13 crore.

The proposal has been forwarded to the Research Design and Standard Design (RDSO), the research wing of Indian Railway, to finalise specifications.

“After the RDSO approval, DLW will be manufacturing five such locos on a pilot basis. The locos will be pressed into service on certain electrified routes on a trial basis,” said the official.

The dual-mode locomotive will be heavier than the diesel locomotive and is expected to run at a maximum speed of 135 km per hour.

A diesel locomotive is a type of railway locomotive in which the prime mover is a diesel engine, while in an electric locomotive, the engine moves on power drawn through a pantograph mounted on the roof of the train.

Pantograph is an apparatus mounted on the roof of an electric train, tram or electric bus to collect power through contact with an overhead wire.

Indian Railways to manufacture locos that run on diesel, electricity | The Financial Express
do u have more info on this RDSO ? @anant_s

Dual Mode locomotives isn't a new concept.
Several such locomotive do exist, notable example of which are
ALP 45 from Bombardier (5400/5900 HP D/E)

PESA Gama

EURO DUAL from Vossloh

These locomotive are quite useful when u want an end to end connectivity that has one of the following issues:

1. Termination of electric OHE traction over extended territories (Example: Assume a Train starts from CST in MUmbai under 25 kV AC Traction, it ends at Panvel, after which it travels upto Mangalore under Diesel Power from there again u have 25 kV AC Traction)
2. Different voltages on a long section. IN europe this is a big problem, as different countries employ different traction voltages (25 kV AC, 15 kV AC, 3 kV AC, 1.5 kV AC) and Frequencies (50Hz, 16.7 Hz). Here to have a locomotive cater to such a mess is indeed a challenging design.

However in India, we relatively have a straightforward system. Almost all high density traffic routes will come under wire by 2030. In this context, what are we going to achieve with this class of locomotives is a but puzzling. More so when we are slated to get 4500 HP Diesel and higher as norm in next decade.
If i were in charge of planning here, i would be puzzled by utility of this locomotive. As for technology, i don't think this is beyond capability of our railway design engineers.

 

[anant_s]

Could u tell me the recent update of Delhi-Agra semi-HSR service?

Here is a news update today...
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Semi-high speed train Gatiman Express gets nod to run for one year

NEW DELHI: Semi-high speed train between Delhi and Agra, Gatiman Express, which will run at a maximum speed of 160 kmph and cover a 200-km distance in about 105 minutes, will be operated by Railways for a year on a pilot basis. The decision comes after the Commissioner Railway Safety (CRS) gave conditional clearance to the train.
Based on the experience of running Gatiman Express at 160 kmph for a year, a further review shall be done at Railway Board for extension of its operations, according to a letter issued by the Railway Board to general managers of Northern Railway and North Central Railways.

Conditions mentioned by CRS in the sanction letter have been examined and accordingly it was decided to run the train for a year from the date of its operation, the letter stated.
Railways will decide a suitable date for flagging off the much-awaited first semi-high speed train soon.
A date for launching Gatiman will be announced shortly as the mandatory CRS clearance has been obtained, said a senior Railway Ministry official.

Equipped with a 5,400HP electric locomotive and 12 modern coaches, the first semi-high speed train will run at a maximum speed of 160 kmph. While the travel time between Delhi and Agra in Shatabdi is 120 minutes, Gatiman Express proposes to reduce it to 105 minutes.

Targeting tourists planning to visit the City of Taj, the fare for Gatiman Express will be 25 per cent more than what a Shatabdi passenger has to pay. Earlier, CRS has raised certain safety concerns over running the first semi-high speed train on the existing track. CRS has sought implementation of a few measures like fencing off the track at vulnerable locations and taking adequate safeguards at level crossings.

"CRS concerns have been addressed and railway divisions have been asked to fence off the identified vulnerable locations along the Delhi-Agra route. All level crossings on the route shall be replaced with rail over bridge and rail under bridge in a planned manner," said the official.

The trials of the semi-high speed train have already been conducted twice on the 200-km-long track between the two destinations.
While the tracks have been fenced off at certain places, signalling system has been upgraded along the route to be taken by the semi-high speed train.
The train also comes with extra features such as emergency braking system, automatic fire alarm along with the passenger information system and sliding doors inside the coaches.

Any plan of upgrading other railways?

Railways have chalked out nine more routes for running similar trains, including Kanpur-Delhi, Chandigarh-Delhi, Hyderabad-Chennai, Nagpur-Bilaspur, Goa-Mumbai and Nagpur-Secunderabad.

Semi-high speed train Gatiman Express gets nod to run for one year - The Economic Times

Trial run last year

 

[AndrewJin]

View attachment 288228

Here is a news update today...
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Semi-high speed train Gatiman Express gets nod to run for one year

NEW DELHI: Semi-high speed train between Delhi and Agra, Gatiman Express, which will run at a maximum speed of 160 kmph and cover a 200-km distance in about 105 minutes, will be operated by Railways for a year on a pilot basis. The decision comes after the Commissioner Railway Safety (CRS) gave conditional clearance to the train.
Based on the experience of running Gatiman Express at 160 kmph for a year, a further review shall be done at Railway Board for extension of its operations, according to a letter issued by the Railway Board to general managers of Northern Railway and North Central Railways.

Conditions mentioned by CRS in the sanction letter have been examined and accordingly it was decided to run the train for a year from the date of its operation, the letter stated.
Railways will decide a suitable date for flagging off the much-awaited first semi-high speed train soon.
A date for launching Gatiman will be announced shortly as the mandatory CRS clearance has been obtained, said a senior Railway Ministry official.

Equipped with a 5,400HP electric locomotive and 12 modern coaches, the first semi-high speed train will run at a maximum speed of 160 kmph. While the travel time between Delhi and Agra in Shatabdi is 120 minutes, Gatiman Express proposes to reduce it to 105 minutes.

Targeting tourists planning to visit the City of Taj, the fare for Gatiman Express will be 25 per cent more than what a Shatabdi passenger has to pay. Earlier, CRS has raised certain safety concerns over running the first semi-high speed train on the existing track. CRS has sought implementation of a few measures like fencing off the track at vulnerable locations and taking adequate safeguards at level crossings.

"CRS concerns have been addressed and railway divisions have been asked to fence off the identified vulnerable locations along the Delhi-Agra route. All level crossings on the route shall be replaced with rail over bridge and rail under bridge in a planned manner," said the official.

The trials of the semi-high speed train have already been conducted twice on the 200-km-long track between the two destinations.
While the tracks have been fenced off at certain places, signalling system has been upgraded along the route to be taken by the semi-high speed train.
The train also comes with extra features such as emergency braking system, automatic fire alarm along with the passenger information system and sliding doors inside the coaches.


Railways have chalked out nine more routes for running similar trains, including Kanpur-Delhi, Chandigarh-Delhi, Hyderabad-Chennai, Nagpur-Bilaspur, Goa-Mumbai and Nagpur-Secunderabad.

Semi-high speed train Gatiman Express gets nod to run for one year - The Economic Times

Not bad at all, here 200km/h D trains take around 80 minutes including 3-4 midway stops covering 200km.
Such intercity trains will attract many international tourists I believe.
What's the price like?

 

[anant_s]

What's the price like?

The existing fares between New Delhi and Agra are Rs. 1010 (~$15.5), for executive class and Rs. 515 (~$8) for Chair car, including meal charges.
It is said that the fares will be about 33% more for Gatimaan express and hence in vicinity of $22 for Executive class and $11 for Chair car.

 

[AndrewJin]

The existing fares between New Delhi and Agra are Rs. 1010 (~$15.5), for executive class and Rs. 515 (~$8) for Chair car, including meal charges.
It is said that the fares will be about 33% more for Gatimaan express and hence in vicinity of $22 for Executive class and $11 for Chair car.
View attachment 288233

A little expensive my friend.
Here 200km(200km/h) costs around 70yuan/58yuan first/second class. (1yuan=10 rupees)
But it does not include any meal. I guess that's the reason?

 

[anant_s]

A little expensive my friend.
Here 200km(200km/h) costs around 70yuan/58yuan first/second class. (1yuan=10 rupees)
But it does not include any meal. I guess that's the reason?

Probably and due to on board catering service they also charge something known as Service Tax, which adds to the cost.
Breakfast

Lunch/Dinner

Vegetarian

Non Vegetarian

http://www.indianrailways.gov.in/railwayboard/uploads/directorate/coaching/TAG_2014-15/MenuMeals.pdf
But just as a comparison, a Chinese HST running at 250 kph will take about 40 minutes to cover the distance of 195 km between Delhi and Agra, so catering probably isn't required, although for longer distance, this becomes feasible.
Another thing, as more trains of these class enter and tracks freed up from freight traffic, the cost could come down. But as of now they want to see how people take interest in this train.