12000 HP Locomotives for Indian Railways

[anant_s]

Last ICF Rajdhani goes into pages of History.

Indian Railways on 13 February 2016, upgraded its last Integral Coach Factory (ICF) make Rajdhani Express, New Delhi Bilaspur Rajdhani (12441 / 12442) to LHB Rake. With this, the era of iconic Maroon and Cream Rajdhani rakes in IR's premier trains comes to an end.

 

[Ankit Kumar]

Last ICF Rajdhani goes into pages of History.
View attachment 293736

Indian Railways on 13 February 2016, upgraded its last Integral Coach Factory (ICF) make Rajdhani Express, New Delhi Bilaspur Rajdhani (12441 / 12442) to LHB Rake. With this, the era of iconic Maroon and Cream Rajdhani rakes in IR's premier trains comes to an end.

Was long overdue.
What about Shatabdis, are all LHB now?

 

[anant_s]

Some of the earliest pictures of Howrah New Delhi ICF Rajdhani (circa 1967) and its journey with time.

Howrah Rajdhani with iconic WDM 4 locomotives (At that time, fastest loco on IR, able to clock 140 kph)

Howrah Rajdhani was the first train to get WAP 5 Locomotive as its traction Chief.

For one rake its riding into the setting sun, for other its dawn of a new era

Was long overdue.
What about Shatabdis, are all LHB now?

almost all.

 

[Ankit Kumar]

Some of the earliest pictures of Howrah New Delhi ICF Rajdhani (circa 1967) and its journey with time.

Howrah Rajdhani with iconic WDM 4 locomotives (At that time, fastest loco on IR, able to clock 140 kph)
View attachment 293746 View attachment 293744
View attachment 293745
Howrah Rajdhani was the first train to get WAP 5 Locomotive as its traction Chief.
View attachment 293743

For one rake its riding into the setting sun, for other its dawn of a new era
View attachment 293747


almost all.

Also one more thing, is the rake new? Or used ones from NR?
I am asking this because when Ranchi Rajdhani was initially upgraded, it got older LHBs from NR.
Don't know about the present situation as Garib Rath is my carrier now .

 

[anant_s]

Also one more thing, is the rake new? Or used ones from NR?

No mismatched Duronto coach suggests this is an old rake, but yes new rake should arrive shortly.

 

[Ankit Kumar]

@anant_s

https://twitter.com/x/status/699192185002983424

 

[anant_s]

@anant_s

https://twitter.com/x/status/699192185002983424

no definitely not the first. Golden Rock (SR) has operated a WDP4 with Jatropha based bio diesel blend. i guess we posted a thread on same.

 

[Ankit Kumar]

no definitely not the first. Golden Rock (SR) has operated a WDP4 with Jatropha based bio diesel blend. i guess we posted a thread on same.

Was wondering some thing. Recently had to make a project on biofuels in school. I had written on it , copied from net from a 4-5 year old article.

May be he is referring to first in western railway?

 

[anant_s]

Was wondering some thing. Recently had to make a project on biofuels in school. I had written on it , copied from net from a 4-5 year old article.

May be he is referring to first in western railway?

Yes that looks to be correct interpretation.

Read more here
First bio-diesel powered loco rolls out in Tiruchi

 

[Ankit Kumar]

@anant_s
E loco list of Feb and March has raised some doubts in my mind.

I see that the basic difference between WAG 5A/B and WAG5HA/HB is the traction Motors.

In Feb
WAG 5 A/B = 665
WAG 5 HA/HB = 489 . Total = 1154

In March
WAG 5 A/B = 622
WAG 5 HA/HB= 532 . Total = 1154

Are the A/B getting converted into HA/HB standards ? Means getting their traction motors changed ?

At first I thought that how come the number of HA/HB has increased as Tap chargers are not produced. Then saw the decline in numbers of A/B

 

[anant_s]

@anant_s
E loco list of Feb and March has raised some doubts in my mind.

I see that the basic difference between WAG 5A/B and WAG5HA/HB is the traction Motors.

In Feb
WAG 5 A/B = 665
WAG 5 HA/HB = 489 . Total = 1154

In March
WAG 5 A/B = 622
WAG 5 HA/HB= 532 . Total = 1154

Are the A/B getting converted into HA/HB standards ? Means getting their traction motors changed ?

At first I thought that how come the number of HA/HB has increased as Tap chargers are not produced. Then saw the decline in numbers of A/B

Dear Ankit,
first what all these WAG 5 classes are:

As you can notice that back in 80s, when WAG 5 was conceived, it was designed around Alstom TAO 659 DC motor (Same as WAM 4) and later when Hitachi motors were being used, they went for H suffix.

After WAG 4 class was retired, no loco had Alstom motors and since IR switched to WAG 7 and WAP 4 with Hitachi HS 15250 motors, it was thought for sake of commonality to use this motor on WAG 5 as well.

The motors are now produced at BHEL for domestic consumption.

As the things stand, Alstom TAO motors are progressively being replaced, primarily due to WAM 4 fleet being retired slowly (by 2018-20 all would be gone), so it makes sense to have only one type of DC traction motor for entire fleet of WAP 4, WAG 5 & 7.
As a result we will see more locos of WAG 5A class converted to WG 5HX class during MTR.

 

[Ankit Kumar]

Dear Ankit,
first what all these WAG 5 classes are:
View attachment 296271

As you can notice that back in 80s, when WAG 5 was conceived, it was designed around Alstom TAO 659 DC motor (Same as WAM 4) and later when Hitachi motors were being used, they went for H suffix.
View attachment 296273
After WAG 4 class was retired, no loco had Alstom motors and since IR switched to WAG 7 and WAP 4 with Hitachi HS 15250 motors, it was thought for sake of commonality to use this motor on WAG 5 as well.
View attachment 296276
The motors are now produced at BHEL for domestic consumption.
View attachment 296277
As the things stand, Alstom TAO motors are progressively being replaced, primarily due to WAM 4 fleet being retired slowly (by 2018-20 all would be gone), so it makes sense to have only one type of DC traction motor for entire fleet of WAP 4, WAG 5 & 7.
As a result we will see more locos of WAG 5A class converted to WG 5HX class during MTR.

Thanks for the confirmation sir. I was surprised at the speed of conversion.

 

[Vyom]

Dear Ankit,
first what all these WAG 5 classes are:
View attachment 296271

As you can notice that back in 80s, when WAG 5 was conceived, it was designed around Alstom TAO 659 DC motor (Same as WAM 4) and later when Hitachi motors were being used, they went for H suffix.
View attachment 296273
After WAG 4 class was retired, no loco had Alstom motors and since IR switched to WAG 7 and WAP 4 with Hitachi HS 15250 motors, it was thought for sake of commonality to use this motor on WAG 5 as well.
View attachment 296276
The motors are now produced at BHEL for domestic consumption.
View attachment 296277
As the things stand, Alstom TAO motors are progressively being replaced, primarily due to WAM 4 fleet being retired slowly (by 2018-20 all would be gone), so it makes sense to have only one type of DC traction motor for entire fleet of WAP 4, WAG 5 & 7.
As a result we will see more locos of WAG 5A class converted to WG 5HX class during MTR.

Hello,

I have learned from the thread that there was some lack of clarity regarding 'tap changers' in locos. To state it simply its a speed control mechanism that controls the voltage (hence, current flow) to the motor. Here 'tappings' or say 'output terminals' are present in the secondary coils of a transformer at different number of coils, which sits before the motor in the electrical circuit. A mechanism in the Drivers cab mechanically selects the 'tapping' from where the required current and voltage is used to get the required torque/power at various modes of operation of the loco. If you have traveled in the first 'motor cab' of old EMUs of Mumbai or Calcutta Suburban you'd have notice nice 'clucking' sounds right before the train picks up or slows down from the motor compartment in the first car. That is sound is the tap changing.

Another form of speed control that is getting popular is Variable Voltage, Variable Frequency Drive (VVVFD), which has been made possible by advancement in Power Electronics and better classes of IGBT (Insulated Gate Bipolar Transistor) modules so Tap changing has become obsolete as the new tech offers more control, reliability and efficiency wrt speed control process is a bit complex. but I can explain If you want to know...

Hope I didn't go too technical.

 

[anant_s]

To state it simply its a speed control mechanism that controls the voltage (hence, current flow) to the motor. Here 'tappings' or say 'output terminals' are present in the secondary coils of a transformer at different number of coils, which sits before the motor in the electrical circuit.

Absolutely correct.

A mechanism in the Drivers cab mechanically selects the 'tapping' from where the required current and voltage is used to get the required torque/power at various modes of operation of the loco.

Essentially Tap changer allows you to take a certain part of secondary winding in the circuit, allowing variation in voltage applied to traction motor and changing torque generated.

Transformer, blower and Tap Changer in a WAG 7 Loco

I think it is important to understand phenomenon of back emf and train resistance which are essential to understand how a loco with load achieves balancing speed.

I can explain If you want to know...

You are always welcome sir to discuss these issues. There are a lot of engineering students who can learn from such discussions.
I too personally have worked on these induction motors (not the traction ones) which employ Variable frequency Drives in industrial applications that require variable flow (large Steam generator feed pumps in power stations), so i can contribute a bit here.
@Ankit Kumar may be you can tell if we should put technical information on how Taps changer and 3 Phasers work.

 

[Ankit Kumar]

Absolutely correct.
View attachment 296283

View attachment 296284

Essentially Tap changer allows you to take a certain pajeef secondary winding in the circuit, allowing variation in voltage applied to traction motor and changing torque generated.

View attachment 296288

Transformer, blower and Tap Changer in a WAG 7 Loco
View attachment 296289

I think it is important to understand phenomenon of back emf and train resistance which are essential to understand how a loco with load achieves balancing speed.

You are always welcome sir to discuss these issues. There are a lot of engineering students who can learn from such discussions.
I too personally have worked on these induction motors (not the traction ones) which employ Variable frequency Drives in industrial applications that require variable flow (large Steam generator feed pumps in power stations), so i can contribute a bit here.
@Ankit Kumar may be you can tell if we should put technical information on how Taps changer and 3 Phasers work.

Of course it would be great. A great help to me also, I am not that technical in these things till now, they only teach the basics of transistors till class 12, and when my boards and JEE gets over i will have something new to read and learn.