You guys go through such a tragic event and STILL don't get it? And some of your media is STILL playing this "I hate this guy" and playing personalities?
Shame on this writer. In SUCH a tragic time, when the entire world is sad to hear that over 120 kids were brutally killed without mercy, someone STILL don't want to play ONE nation. This article is nothing but a show of personal hatred. It is not objective nor does it help the nation. It puts a crack in the unity. Another example of paid journalism which at this time, really serves in an anti-Pakistan's purpose.
Now for those of you, who don't know about this situation from "the inside", there is actually a decent level of synergy between the Pak Army and the Civilian Government. When 9/11 happened, President Busch gave the "GO" orders to the United States Military. The military told the president how, when and where it'd go,attack and destroy the enemies. It is not the President's job to run the military. Nor he needs to be involved in anything outside of making decisions and providing political support to his military as he is the Commander In Chief. In Pakistan, the PM is not the Commander In Chief, but the military is one of the Arms of the civilian government.
Similarly, at this time, the command for this situation is entirely up to the Army. The political party in power will provide the political shelter and ownership of many operations that have started or are about to start.
The goal of the Civilian government is unchanged. Their highest priority has, was and will be to take the country to the next level economically. That will happen and unless more terrorism takes place, I don't think anyone can stop the growth.
This article also failed to mention the silly sit ins and associated problems that had majority of the intelligence system working round the lock to protect the people in these protests. Had there been no protests, there would have been a LOT more resources available for the intelligence to gather reports and the attack on kids may not have happened, or could have been prevented.
Nevertheless, this isn't a time for this "I hate him" drama. There are some very intense and serious challenges ahead of Pakistan. The military can in NO shape of form deal with the entire situation from A to Z by itself (threats, operations, internal stability, peace, economy, job creation, growth and foreign investment, etc).
Similarly, the Civilian Government can NOT do it without the military. This is the time when the country gets together as ONE SYSTEM and everyone plays its part. In three years, Pakistan will have changed to a much better and modern place on this planet.
Lets see if we give a pen in a monkeys hands does the monkey becomes a scholar. Pakistan is not only self sufficient but able to export a great number of these monkeys, how does this monkey know the exact moment when this country slipped out of NS's hands and fell in COAS's lap. How come all the monkeys think Army is only suppose to sit in a cave waiting for orders to fight. Well monkeys, COAS meeting his PM is not called one giving in power to other. enough of this monkey business!
You will NEVER change, will you? My post is sane to you because it didn't have IK getting direct blame for the Peshawar attacks. I can tell you many in the GHQ think so. I didn't want to bring it up as it would start another discussion which wouldn't be right at this time due to the loss of so many innocent lives and the serious steps Pakistan has to take, to combat terrorism and get rid of the cancer called Talibastards.
You, in your post, still blamed NS, called him impotent and then commanded Raheel Shariff and then called out how sit-ins and associated violence had nothing to do with anything. SO, you essentially agreed with the article but rather tactfully thinking myself and everyone reading is an idiot!!!
Allow me to shed light on here.
1) Gen. Raheel Shariff is actually working with the other Shariff, very well. They've divided tasks and strategy. The military takes care of he operation against the Terrorism and the NS's team will deal with the economy and will grow it by 30% before they leave. That will set the stage for Pakistan's future.
2) If you read my posts, I've told everyone that IK was wrapping up this week. Sadly, that terrorist incident happened but in disguise, he got a good excuse and it gave him some character. Otherwise, he was already going to be closing the shop anyways. The military had way too much anxiety hearing about potential terrorists mingling with the protestors and the Pashtunistan drama. The military is stretched too thin and they didn't want to create another situation which would cause issues towards the integrity of Pakistan.
3) The US 9/11 or anything about sit-ins has no relevance. People like IK doing these violent sit-ins belong to GITMO here in the US and the same in the UK. These wrong, negative, violent tactics and paper tigers are only good for the Pakstani system. Even there it is ABOUT to change. IK or anyone, about a year from now, won't be able to repeat this again. Watch how seriously and severely the anti-terrorism laws are about to change.
Next, anywhere, where there are many thousands of people involved with protests or sit-ins, you'll have extra police, intelligence and focus, that takes resources off of other places. Please be rational in your posts. Thousands of extra policemen and different agencies had been deployed to keep IK's protests terrorist-free. There were reports published by your military from day 1 of IK's protests that people coming from KPK did include people with criminal and extremism related backgrounds and cause serious harm to human lives.
Like i said, this isn't the time to do silly, stupid and sad politics. Let's just support the system. People will get to chose who they want to rule over them. Who's incompetent and who's impotent and who actually took the Pakistani economy on a vertical climb before leaving. Right now, the system needs to be supported. Period.
Woohoo, what a way to destroy a sane argument! Giving IK direct blame for the attacks is total bullsh!t, so that's probably why you didn't do it, right? Or are you not sane? Funny how you were offended when I called your argument sane, provided that I have destroyed every other argument you have ever presented before (don't need to post that list again now do I?)
then called out how sit-ins and associated violence had nothing to do with anything. SO, you essentially agreed with the article but rather tactfully thinking myself and everyone reading is an idiot!!!
The article didn't say that 'sit-ins had nothing to do with anything', so by saying that I can't be agreeing with it now can I?
Your logic makes no sense.
1) Gen. Raheel Shariff is actually working with the other Shariff, very well. They've divided tasks and strategy. The military takes care of he operation against the Terrorism and the NS's team will deal with the economy and will grow it by 30% before they leave. That will set the stage for Pakistan's future.
Yes, I never denied that Raheel and Nawaz were working together. Do you have any source for the 30% figure or is it bullsh!t like your 500 billion dollar figure and every other figure presented by PMLN?
If you're thinking about all those magic 'investments' Nawaz brought in, forget it. I've already proven how messed up that strategy is. I sure hope NS grows Pakistan's economy, but realistically its impossible unless he completely changes his policies. PML-N’s financial wizardry - Sayem Z Ali
2) If you read my posts, I've told everyone that IK was wrapping up this week. Sadly, that terrorist incident happened but in disguise, he got a good excuse and it gave him some character. Otherwise, he was already going to be closing the shop anyways. The military had way too much anxiety hearing about potential terrorists mingling with the protestors and the Pashtunistan drama. The military is stretched too thin and they didn't want to create another situation which would cause issues towards the integrity of Pakistan.
Cut the prophecy crap. No one could have foreseen this incident and without it PTI had no reason to wrap up the protest. You had 'prophesied' that there would be a civil war in August, none of that ever happened. Neither did any of the Pashtunistan bull. And don't even get me started about how completely retarded your Pashtunistan theory is.
3) The US 9/11 or anything about sit-ins has no relevance. People like IK doing these violent sit-ins belong to GITMO here in the US and the same in the UK. These wrong, negative, violent tactics and paper tigers are only good for the Pakstani system. Even there it is ABOUT to change. IK or anyone, about a year from now, won't be able to repeat this again. Watch how seriously and severely the anti-terrorism laws are about to change.
It has everything to do with the fact that your massive intelligence network couldn't prevent the hijacking of four airliners by a bunch of talibaboons despite there being no sit-ins to keep it occupied.
It is idiotic to say that people like IK should be put in Gitmo, because not only is that an Orwellian style of keeping thieves in power, it would also mean that people like George Washington and Nelson Mandela should have been put in Gitmo, they overthrew governments too, remember? Of course, now you'll say they were different because their causes were justified to which i'll argue that IK's cause was justified too and you'll obviously end up running away from that argument because I am right and you are wrong. But lets not derail this thread.
Next, anywhere, where there are many thousands of people involved with protests or sit-ins, you'll have extra police, intelligence and focus, that takes resources off of other places. Please be rational in your posts. Thousands of extra policemen and different agencies had been deployed to keep IK's protests terrorist-free. There were reports published by your military from day 1 of IK's protests that people coming from KPK did include people with criminal and extremism related backgrounds and cause serious harm to human lives.
I am perfectly rational in my posts. PERFECTLY. You can not prove a single logical discrepancy in any of my posts.
What I am arguing is that even if Pakistan's intelligence apparatus wasn't occupied with the sit-ins, it still wouldn't have been able to detect or prevent the attack on APS, much like the entire network of CIA,NSA,FBI and countless other three-letter agencies couldn't prevent 9/11.
Also, please do link me to those reports you're talking about.
Like i said, this isn't the time to do silly, stupid and sad politics. Let's just support the system. People will get to chose who they want to rule over them. Who's incompetent and who's impotent and who actually took the Pakistani economy on a vertical climb before leaving. Right now, the system needs to be supported. Period.
Yes, lets support the system. Lets support it by finding the problems in it and solving them so that we can move on. These are exactly IK's demands, from day one.
The article didn't say that 'sit-ins had nothing to do with anything', so by saying that I can't be agreeing with it now can I? Your logic makes no sense.
Yes, I never denied that Raheel and Nawaz were working together. Do you have any source for the 30% figure or is it bullsh!t like your 500 billion dollar figure and every other figure presented by PMLN?
No one could have foreseen this incident and without it PTI had no reason to wrap up the protest. You had 'prophesied' that there would be a civil war in August, none of that ever happened. Neither did any of the Pashtunistan bull. And don't even get me started about how completely retarded your Pashtunistan theory is.
It is idiotic to say that people like IK should be put in Gitmo, because not only is that an Orwellian style of keeping thieves in power, it would also mean that people like George Washington and Nelson Mandela should have been put in Gitmo, they overthrew governments too, remember? Of course, now you'll say they were different because their causes were justified to which i'll argue that IK's cause was justified too and you'll obviously end up running away from that argument because I am right and you are wrong. But lets not derail this thread.
See bold above. I am done with your lying and will not be responding to your posts. Such a sad tragedy has taken place and you are too busy keeping your head in Propaganda Telling Institute's rear. For the last time, see the bold above:
1) The ARTICLE is what everyone posting on here is upset about. The article is written by a paid, selfish and corrupt journalist, who couldn't wait to start writing propaganda. The bodies of so many Angel-Like children aren't even cold yet and stupid, selfish journalist can't even wait for their paid propaganda?
So of course the article says Sit Ins had no impact on the security's situation. It was written from the money given by the people from the sit ins. So how could it NOT give a clean chit to the sit ins???
2) 30% economic growth? I was being conservative. Let the current system finish its term. If the country can remain peaceful and solid, without the political or extremism crap, by the end of December 2017 (starting the end of December 2016), the Pakistan's face on this planet will have start to change. When you hear so much buzz about doing business in Pakistan and growth in Pakistan, you can remember my posts. Till then, you'll have to wait and see.
3) No one had foreseen this incident? Since the DAY 1 of the sit-ins, they have been saying it on TV that there are severe chances of terrorism. But no, the sit-ins had to continue. If you use common sense, do a sit-in inside UK anywhere......they'll put about 10 k cops around the area with paramedics and all. Don't you think thousands of police officers and many military and intelligence analysts were used to protect the people in sit-ins and with all that drama????
Why do you think IK was asked to pack up a few days before this unfortunate incident happened??? You won't get it. There is a reason why people like you are in the UK instead of being on a seat elsewhere! Pashtunistan issue was as BIG of a reality as if you see your face in the mirror (if you do that, please it at your own risk as the experience may be real scary, judging from your posts ).
George Washington and Nelson Mandela have NO, I repeat, NO comparison what so ever with IK. If you think there is some, you need to get off the grass you are smoking. A mob and a racial equality and freedom movement are entirely separate. The ONLY relationship I can find with IK's little movement is with the Hitler. His campaign was based on a lie also. His media lead used to say "if you lie consistently and repeat the same thing all the time, people will start to believe it".
4) You THINK you are perfectly rationale in your posts. Only the normal readers can tell the difference. Anyway, I don't want to derail this thread. I don't want to get into any discussions outside of what's right for Pakistan. That is, grow it economically, sustain within the system so future generations can learn to follow a system (instead of one of extremist organizations who kill innocents), and clean up Pakistan from all extremism. Three year is all it is going to take. History will be my witness, just remain peaceful and follow the system.
Bhutto was a civillian dictator with secular views. With the support of his majority of his politicians in assembly he started nationalization of vital economic driven assets, and jailed and killed some 50,000 people
Zia was the other extreme, a military dictator with religous views, With the backing of sunni, wahabbi religious parties and countries he created jihadists.
Now come a dictator in our recent memory. Musharraf was from the military, who set up a fake democratic system by placing his Lotas like PML-Q, JUI-F, and MQM as majority in his assembly. He was hated by the population for bringing this war in the first place, increasing violence in Balochistan, making deals with the Americans with of course strings attached, and interfering in Supreme Court's affairs.
If Raheel Sharif is popular its because he is no dictator. He knows the country has been pushed back too far and that whatever he intents to do needs help and confidence of the civilian government, which has fraudulently taken power through an elaborate rigging contest that is given the title "election". A few months ago he was giving a speech and make no mistake he said, " democracy is the only way forward to join developed nations in the world "
BS article. Raheel Sharif didn't fall from sky. Nawaz Sharif chose him from 3rd line of seniority. If he wanted to he could have placed a bonga Army Chief like Ashfaq Kayani or listened to his bonga preferences.
The very reason Pakistan is united right now is again because of Nawaz Sharif. If he didn't call the APC in Peshawar, people like Imran Khan would be staging dharnas and fighting for the Prime Minister seat. If he didn't approve hangings of terrorists then perhaps our morale would have been down.
And if Raheel Sharif hadn't demanded it, he would never have approved hangings of terrorists.
Did you see Nawaz' body language when he was at GHQ to sign new anti-terror legislation? He seemed ready to cry -- he knows the TTP will want his blood, and that of his children.
With no political credibility left, Nawaz has no choice but to do what Raheel wants in this crisis.
Yet people like you want to give him credit when it is Raheel taking the initiative, and Nawaz getting strung along.
Matters of national security have never been into the hands of the civilian govt. Whenever they seem to be, its only because they comply with the establishment point of view . . .. . . and i'm okay with it. N.S knows very well what the people of Pakistan, international community and the establishment wants . . . . and its about the same thing. So he has no option but to make the decision that is acceptable. And in democracy you take input from other institutions for matters which come under there supervision . . . .. which in this case is the army and other security forces and i think Gen. Raheel Sharif is doing a fine job.
Bhutto was a civillian dictator with secular views. With the support of his majority of his politicians in assembly he started nationalization of vital economic driven assets, and jailed and killed some 50,000 people
Zia was the other extreme, a military dictator with religous views, With the backing of sunni, wahabbi religious parties and countries he created jihadists.
Now come a dictator in our recent memory. Musharraf was from the military, who set up a fake democratic system by placing his Lotas like PML-Q, JUI-F, and MQM as majority in his assembly. He was hated by the population for bringing this war in the first place, increasing violence in Balochistan, making deals with the Americans with of course strings attached, and interfering in Supreme Court's affairs.
If Raheel Sharif is popular its because he is no dictator. He knows the country has been pushed back too far and that whatever he intents to do needs help and confidence of the civilian government, which has been elected by the people democratically. A few months ago he was giving a speech and make no mistake he said, " democracy is the only way forward to join developed nations in the world "
If Raheel Shrif visited China, Russia, U.S, Saudi Arabia, its because he is doing his job. He is getting aid, weapons, and cooperation from other militaries.Similarly if Nawaz Sharif is going to these countries, its cuz he is holding the foreign ministry and making economic deals. Three massive and important deals in his leaf which we should not forget here is the Pak-China economic corridor, GSP plus, and SCO Membership. This is the system which we want and should hope to continue.
See bold above. I am done with your lying and will not be responding to your posts. Such a sad tragedy has taken place and you are too busy keeping your head in Propaganda Telling Institute's rear. For the last time, see the bold above:
1) The ARTICLE is what everyone posting on here is upset about. The article is written by a paid, selfish and corrupt journalist, who couldn't wait to start writing propaganda. The bodies of so many Angel-Like children aren't even cold yet and stupid, selfish journalist can't even wait for their paid propaganda?
So of course the article says Sit Ins had no impact on the security's situation. It was written from the money given by the people from the sit ins. So how could it NOT give a clean chit to the sit ins???
It's been eight days. We can't stick our heads in the sand for any longer under the guise of mourning. It's time to examine the situation and strike back.
First of all, I demand proof that the article was paid by 'the people of the sit-ins'. Second, I demand that you quote a line from the article that explicitly says the sit-ins had no impact. Thirdly, I demand that you prove, using reports from Pakistani intelligence and reputable sources, that the terror attack definitely would have been prevented if it wasn't for the sit ins.
If you can't fulfill those three demands, it is quite clear who's doing the propaganda here. The article didn't even mention the sit-ins, you did. You dragged politics in here, all while blabbering self-righteous bullsh!t about how we should be ashamed for politicizing the incident.
2) 30% economic growth? I was being conservative. Let the current system finish its term. If the country can remain peaceful and solid, without the political or extremism crap, by the end of December 2017 (starting the end of December 2016), the Pakistan's face on this planet will have start to change. When you hear so much buzz about doing business in Pakistan and growth in Pakistan, you can remember my posts. Till then, you'll have to wait and see.
So you're telling me that all of the World Bank and IMF's projections, which do not even include the possibility of natural disasters and/or major political or terrorist events, are all wrong? I demand a reputable source to back these claims, otherwise this is all total bull you just pulled out of your arse.
Oh, and by the way, you did not address the points made by the article I cited.
3) No one had foreseen this incident? Since the DAY 1 of the sit-ins, they have been saying it on TV that there are severe chances of terrorism. But no, the sit-ins had to continue. If you use common sense, do a sit-in inside UK anywhere......they'll put about 10 k cops around the area with paramedics and all. Don't you think thousands of police officers and many military and intelligence analysts were used to protect the people in sit-ins and with all that drama????
Why do you think IK was asked to pack up a few days before this unfortunate incident happened??? You won't get it. There is a reason why people like you are in the UK instead of being on a seat elsewhere! Pashtunistan issue was as BIG of a reality as if you see your face in the mirror (if you do that, please it at your own risk as the experience may be real scary, judging from your posts
Nobody had foreseen that a school, 120 miles away from the sit-in, would be attacked the way it was. Military or Intelligence would not have been able to prevent that attack regardless of the sit-ins occupying them.
How about you give me a source that says 'IK was asked to pack up a few days before this'? And what do you mean by me being in the UK? Going for ad-hominem attacks now? Cheap tactic. I've been on enough seats in my life. I don't need to explain any of that to you.
And my looks are very good, thank you for your concern though. I can walk up to a mirror at any moment and I'll be able to clearly see my face in it. On the other hand, all I can see about Pashtunistan is an imperialist pig over the internet backing his retarded arguments with blog posts and pictures on 'slideshare'. If you can show me anything solid, I'll consider believing it.
George Washington and Nelson Mandela have NO, I repeat, NO comparison what so ever with IK. If you think there is some, you need to get off the grass you are smoking. A mob and a racial equality and freedom movement are entirely separate. The ONLY relationship I can find with IK's little movement is with the Hitler. His campaign was based on a lie also. His media lead used to say "if you lie consistently and repeat the same thing all the time, people will start to believe it".
A movement for electoral reform isn't that different from what Nelson Mandela and George Washington did.
And IK's campaign is based on a lie? I demand that you prove every single one of the sources in the spoiler tag below to be lies. If you can't, then 'sharam se doob maro, jhootay lannti.'
I know I am right, but I also know that I can be proven wrong. Until I can be proven wrong, I will continue to believe I am right. Till now, I have destroyed each and every one of your arguments while you ran away from each and every one of mine. I have enough proof to back my belief that I am right.
You are not done with me until I tell you so. You want to talk about lying?
You said the Dharnay cost 50 Billion Dollars - that was proven a lie. Sit-in caused Rs547bn loss to economy so far: Govt - Newspaper - DAWN.COM (1 USD= approx. 100 PKR)
Now you've jumped down to one billion dollars. And you accuse us of making U-turns.
You said PTI made no human progress. That was proven a lie by all this.
You said there was no rigging. That was proven a lie by all this:
You said Imran Khan never did anything good. That was proven a lie when you yourself said that IK's biggest achievement is Shaukat Khanum hospital.
You said I make statements out of thin air. That was proven false when I backed each and every point I made with facts and links here.
You said there were videos of Imran Khan using abusive language on YouTube. That was proven a lie when I used multiple search terms to find them but couldn't, and you couldn't provide a link either.
You said all my links were from Mubashir Luqman - that was proven false because all my links were from Express Tribune, The News, Geo, Samaa, Dawn and Dunya. None of these has any links with Mubashir Luqman.
You said Nawaz Sharif gave PTI the KPK government. That was proven a lie because PMLN had only 14 seats while PTI had 56.
You said all of PTI's protest was violent. That was proven a lie when I told you that only 1 out of 124 days was violent.
You said everything ARY reported was false - i proved you wrong when I showed you that every other news network, including the BBC, had reported a lot of the stuff ARY did.
You said Imran Khan did not use the parliament or democratic system - that was proven a lie when I showed you that that was exactly what he did for the first 14 months.
You said Pakistan had 70 years of Martial Law. The fact that Pakistan has only existed for 67 Years proved that was a lie.
You said only in Pakistan can an alleged criminal bring revolution. I proved this false here.
I can go on and on.
I find it amusing yet disturbing how you shed crocodile tears about children dying, complain about people politicizing it, while dragging in a political party that wasn't even mentioned in the original post and politicizing the thread yourself.
Everytime you try to derail a thread like this, It ends up like the threads here, here, here, here, here,here and here. You ran away from all those arguments, a lot like PMLN ran away from electoral investigation.
Now, go ahead, don't reply, I win the argument and at the end of the day all you have done is politicize the murder of a hundred and fifty children, waste hours typing long and senseless paragraphs and show some people on the internet how utterly retarded one can be.
The article represents the sheer frustration of the writer, Fahd Hussain seeing Imran Khan fails miserably in his endeavor to remove Nawaz Sharif. While the nation reels in pain on Peshawar tragedy, Fahd Hussain is more interested in the bowel movement of his vocabulary to tell us the obvious flaws in the politicians. Let him write about the brutality of TTP and of how Imran Khan until todate refuses to challenge the killers. Really, wrong article, wrong time wrong message!
He's 100% right. At this moment, we need an iron man without fear. When we needed a Winston Churchill, we got a khusra instead. What an insult to lions is this PML-N. Except for Khwaja Asif, the party is comprised of bunch of shemales.
The issue is that all of the first six hangings were those who were involved in musharraf attack planning. Resultantly, we saw big gathering on their funerals. What centiment does this convey to the nation?
This nation, its corrupt politicians and real estate dealers aka Army cannot fight an extremist entity like the Taliban.
There is no option but to retreat to the east bank of River Indus. I may sound defeatist but we all know that the war is almost lost.
Pakistan Armed Forces are not some Red Army that could stem the tide of the Wehrmacht and eventually reach Berlin. The soviets sustained 27 million casualties in that war.
132 children's were killed on 16 December and which action we took ? None. just hanged few terrorists which were in jail ?
and now LHC and Sindh high court jumped in to save those terrorists which are in jails
No one can save Pakistan from terrorists not even Raheel Sharif/Army i just lost my hope today.....
132 children's were killed on 16 December and which action we took ? None. just hanged few terrorists which were in jail ?
and now LHC and Sindh high court jumped in to save those terrorists which are in jails
No one can save Pakistan from terrorists not even Raheel Sharif/Army i just lost my hope today.....
“My dear Pakistanis: I stand before you the leader of a nation that today will display a resolve never seen before. Here behind me, in this school, we lost more than our beautiful children — we also lost our doubts, our ambiguity, and our wrong priorities. Yesterday these most vile terrorists inflicted on us a pain that will never go away. Now, here I promise to you that we will inflict on them a pain they will never ever forget. Today we are one nation, grieving together for an unimaginable loss. But together we shall rise from this grief with a determination never seen before. We will do whatever it takes, and however long it takes, to crush terrorism forever from this beautiful land of ours. We will not falter; we will not waver; and we will not fail. This is my promise to you, and this is my promise to those who did this to us. We shall never forget; and we shall never forgive.”
seems like a speech bashar al-assad or hugo chavez would make... but who in the pakistani political activism can make such a speech... maybe time for a alternative to rise from among the sensible citizens... pdf pakistanis much arrange a gathering... what else to do but that...
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