PAF Heroes Who Surprised India !

[denel]

No....yes there were cheering in the video but it did not say for what reason we assumed this on our own (a lot of fake stuff also came out). I do not think the ISPR made a mistake (error of omission, rather than of commission). As a tit for tat, Pakistani jets bombed close to Indian military targets to show capability. This is the operation which involved no F16s but Jf17s and the Mirages. Since it was high alert, the PAF was carrying out regular sorties since the previous interception/evasion. Naturally, the F16s were also flying and provided cover (be it their primary objective). I doubt they expected someone to wander so far off from the flock and get clean bowled.

I am not happy with the decision by Mr. Tufail to dig in to such information so soon and furnish it on his blog. He looks like a Pervez Musharaf in the making. Very disappointed.

i do concur, there needs to be a tight lid on such details and letting Tufail write and provide details is no go area.

 

[baqai]

i doubt Sir Tufail would have written this without prior consent with the higher ups, you can consider his blog posts as unofficial statements, what ISPR can't say they let it slip via him to the open world. He has tremendous respect both in friends and foes and regardless of us armchair warriors his messages will be and would be taken seriously by intended recipients, my 2 cents

 

[SQ8]

yes. but if you recall there were images of jf17 pilots claiming downing the jet etc.

Done deliberately to fend off Indians whining to the Americans about us using the F-16s on them since we were aware that if a Amraam ended up in some form on their end they would cry crocodile tears till the ganges flooded about it.. which they did.

The whole idea was the control every aspect of the narrative which did not go according to plan but still went better than expected in some cases.

As mentioned in the blog, there were opportunities to down many more IAF aircraft but the need was to avoid the Indian complaining that follows every-time we defend ourselves.

At any rate that did not work since the AMRAAM did explode inside their territory and they found a piece of it.

bottom line, it is a negative on jf-17 in not securing the kill on mig/su and flies in the face of PR work done.

It was a matter of risking other aircraft in order to secure a kill for the JF-17. The Su was only fired upon after it was determined it was about to let loose its missile.

Extremely restricted RoEs in the effort to avoid escalation. Damned if you do it, damned if you don’t

 

[Pied Piper]

Tactical details should not have been given... Unfortunately its a tendencies of certain individuals to 'gloat' on their egos about certain bravados done. I personally think it was irresponsible for senior members to divulge critical operations of the PAF.

It was a good move to let the IAF and others guess what was happening. This was a good psychological warfare.

The reports from senior PAF members and the ISPR - should be in.uniform and not in a conflicting manner - as it then causes doubt in a number of areas.
The Armed forces need to be strict and firm with all staff in divulging any form of operations... Only recently did the ex ISI chief wrote a book and was reprimanded for that.

Human Nature (egotistical) tendencies need to be controlled by all service men - no matter what rank or status or respect.

The ISPR has been the mouth piece... And should have continued with the narrative as given by them.

We have 2 senior officers giving a slightly different narrative - the 'boss' of the JF-17 project said it was the JF-17 Thunder that made the 'kill' and this was reiterated by the ISPR. However Kaiser Tufail gave a more detailed information which contradicted the other senior staff.

I am aware of much ego/bravado of different squadrons and all wanting it known that it was their sqns that 'achieved glory'. For the interest of National Security and geo-politics the Armed Forces need to ensure that serving or retired servicemen do not undermine any given narrative by the state.

I have full respect for all service men and women - but feel that too.much information that can be seen contradictory can give credence to the false narratives of its enemies.

 

[Humble Analyst]

View attachment 567117[/QUOTE[/QUOTE]

Why the rule about course mates?

They can do mischief

 

[denel]

Tactical details should not have been given... Unfortunately its a tendencies of certain individuals to 'gloat' on their egos about certain bravados done. I personally think it was irresponsible for senior members to divulge critical operations of the PAF.

It was a good move to let the IAF and others guess what was happening. This was a good psychological warfare.

The reports from senior PAF members and the ISPR - should be in.uniform and not in a conflicting manner - as it then causes doubt in a number of areas.
The Armed forces need to be strict and firm with all staff in divulging any form of operations... Only recently did the ex ISI chief wrote a book and was reprimanded for that.

Human Nature (egotistical) tendencies need to be controlled by all service men - no matter what rank or status or respect.

The ISPR has been the mouth piece... And should have continued with the narrative as given by them.

We have 2 senior officers giving a slightly different narrative - the 'boss' of the JF-17 project said it was the JF-17 Thunder that made the 'kill' and this was reiterated by the ISPR. However Kaiser Tufail gave a more detailed information which contradicted the other senior staff.

I am aware of much ego/bravado of different squadrons and all wanting it known that it was their sqns that 'achieved glory'. For the interest of National Security and geo-politics the Armed Forces need to ensure that serving or retired servicemen do not undermine any given narrative by the state.

I have full respect for all service men and women - but feel that too.much information that can be seen contradictory can give credence to the false narratives of its enemies.

we had to sign 20yr code of silence; and some things for life will never be said

 

[MastanKhan]

Tactical details should not have been given... Unfortunately its a tendencies of certain individuals to 'gloat' on their egos about certain bravados done. I personally think it was irresponsible for senior members to divulge critical operations of the PAF.

It was a good move to let the IAF and others guess what was happening. This was a good psychological warfare.

The reports from senior PAF members and the ISPR - should be in.uniform and not in a conflicting manner - as it then causes doubt in a number of areas.
The Armed forces need to be strict and firm with all staff in divulging any form of operations... Only recently did the ex ISI chief wrote a book and was reprimanded for that.

Human Nature (egotistical) tendencies need to be controlled by all service men - no matter what rank or status or respect.

The ISPR has been the mouth piece... And should have continued with the narrative as given by them.

We have 2 senior officers giving a slightly different narrative - the 'boss' of the JF-17 project said it was the JF-17 Thunder that made the 'kill' and this was reiterated by the ISPR. However Kaiser Tufail gave a more detailed information which contradicted the other senior staff.

I am aware of much ego/bravado of different squadrons and all wanting it known that it was their sqns that 'achieved glory'. For the interest of National Security and geo-politics the Armed Forces need to ensure that serving or retired servicemen do not undermine any given narrative by the state.

I have full respect for all service men and women - but feel that too.much information that can be seen contradictory can give credence to the false narratives of its enemies.

Hi,

There was no reason for Kaiser Tufail to give a different version after ispr and Shahid Latif's statements---.

But Kaiser Tufail also wanted to show off and did not want to be left behind---.

Any old rivalries between Latif & Tufail---????

To top it all off---there is a leaked phone call audio from the pilot to his retd boss that the boss recorded and then released to the public---.

It is leading to " open season " in the Paf---. The narrative of the ISPR should not have been challenged by Kaiser Tufail---.

 

[Pied Piper]

Hi,

There was no reason for Kaiser Tufail to give a different version after ispr and Shahid Latif's statements---.

But Kaiser Tufail also wanted to show off and did not want to be left behind---.

Any old rivalries between Latif & Tufail---????

To top it all off---there is a leaked phone call audio from the pilot to his retd boss that the boss recorded and then released to the public---.

It is leading to " open season " in the Paf---. The narrative of the ISPR should not have been challenged by Kaiser Tufail---.

I totally agree.. To rectify this I hope ISPR continue to give the same narrative.
I hope the Armed Forces ensure discipline with servicemen who are broadcasting information that can undermine National Security or aid enemies of the state.

I hope the Armed Forces have a personal word with any egotistical service person that is giving out vital information out.

Please note that there are many different intelligence agencies personal on these kind of sites (best place to get nuggets of military intelligence from sites that have a number of serving and ex-military personnel etc).

Also its absolutely foolish for any person especially military personnel to assume that its ok to divulge tactical or strategic information on any public platform (OSINT).,,I'm really shocked that individual servicemen, the units, the type of aircraft and the role each aircraft played is given without thinking of the security risk to all mentioned staff.
To all serving and ex military personnel - please refrain from giving out sensitive information. Don't make it too easy for foreign intelligence agencies to pick up the vital nuggets of information - which can later be used against you.

The staff mentioned can be at risk.

From potential kidnapping, families can be blackmailed etc...also for psychological warfare the individual pilots etc can be targeted/taken out etc.....

I hope ISPR reigns everyone and gives a 'stern' warning to all service people of all ranks etc..
Just to clarify... Have a look at the website for open source intelligence.... Now the enemies of Pakistan are now using Tufails narrative and are negatively undermining the Pakistani state narrative?

 

[Thorough Pro]

Why?

@mods can you please check his ip address? looks like an undercover bharti

Assalamualikum guys, sorry for bothering you again. But can anyone please upload a clear image/picture, that hasn’t been edited(without the stars)

View attachment 567180

 

[Adam_Khan]

Hi,

There was no reason for Kaiser Tufail to give a different version after ispr and Shahid Latif's statements---.

But Kaiser Tufail also wanted to show off and did not want to be left behind---.

Any old rivalries between Latif & Tufail---????

To top it all off---there is a leaked phone call audio from the pilot to his retd boss that the boss recorded and then released to the public---.

It is leading to " open season " in the Paf---. The narrative of the ISPR should not have been challenged by Kaiser Tufail---.

Even if that narrative is not correct?

 

[litman]

Hi,




It is leading to " open season " in the Paf---. The narrative of the ISPR should not have been challenged by Kaiser Tufail---.

honestly speaking ISPR screwed up the whole situation . the briefing about the aerial engagement should have been given by paf's spokesperson. the claim of second pilot is still a big question mark for the ispr but the reality seems to be that there was no second pilot .
it was also clear from the talks by shahid latif that he was also selling propaganda regarding JFT. jft participated in the strike but now the things are getting clearer that it did not shoot down any jet rather both the indian jets were shot down by F-16.

 

[crankthatskunk]

Exactly only Abhinandan crossed the LOC.

Well, in that case, we shouldn't call him "Abhi-None-Done".
He definitely did something.

 

[MastanKhan]

Even if that narrative is not correct?

Hi,

This is war---there should be " no narrative "---correct or not.

Giving out details about the operation---what we did---how we did it---what we used---how we used it---giving out this information is a CRIMINAL OFFENCE---.

ISPR should have had no say in it---.

Then the Sqdrn Ldr's call to his old boss---. The boss recording that call and leaking it---. That is a criminal offence as well---.

It was like poor starving children got a toy and they started showing off in front of everyone---.

And then this BS about the displaying the patches---what garbage---.

What have they done---shot down a 3rd rate Mig 21and a possible SU30 and supposedly let escape 6 enemy aircraft even though a very high ranking air marshall was flying & incharge of the mission---.

Where secrecy is concerned---this mission was and is a TOTAL FAILURE---.

Where preparation is concerned about covering all options---this mission is a 60% failure---for not being ready in advance to tackle the enemy aircraft that were incoming and Paf got lock on---.

That thing should have been covered in the " WHAT IF " part of the briefing.

Letting the indian navy submarine and that too a Scorpene escape that is a failure of the century---. That was a total disgrace---.

That would have avenged the Atlantique---.

 

[Galaxy D]

Finally with untiring efforts of Sir Kaiser Tufail, here is the roll of honour of the PAF Pilots involved in the operation Swift Retort that decisively delivered a telling blow on the Indian Air Force and rendered it's claims of superiority over PAF.

Reproduced with kind permission of Sir Kaiser Tufail.

F-16 B with Tail No. 606, is a TWIN seater aircraft.

Why does the list contain only ONE name ? There should have been TWO names of both the officers who flew on that aircraft.

Is the missing name of the officer who died in the hospital and mistaken for Indian pilot ?

 

[Adam_Khan]

Hi,

This is war---there should be " no narrative "---correct or not.

Giving put details about the operation---what we did---how we did it---what we used---how we used it---giving out this information is a CRIMINAL OFFENCE---.

ISPR should have had no say in it---.

Then the Sqdrn Ldr's call to his old boss---. The boss recording that call and leaking it---. That is a criminal offence as well---.

It was like poor starving children got a toy and they started showing off in front of everyone---.

And then this BS about the displaying the patches---what garbage---.

What have they done---shot down a 3rd rate Mig 21and a possible SU30 and supposedly let escape 6 enemy aircraft even though a very high ranking air marshall was flying & incharge of the mission---.

Where secrecy is concerned---this mission was and is a TOTAL FAILURE---.

Where preparation is concerned about covering all options---this mission is a 60% failure---for not being ready in advance to tackle the enemy aircraft that were incoming and Paf got lock on---.

That thing should have been covered in the " WHAT IF " part of the briefing.

Letting the indian navy submarine and that too a Scorpene escape that is a failure of the century---. That was a total disgrace---.

That would have avenged the Atlantique---.

Using a false narrative to manipulate the opinions of public was possible before the advent of internet and social media but not anymore, whether you like it or not people will find the truth and this will only make you look like a fool. Having said that personally I don't think Kaiser Tufail should have revealed the identities of the personnel involved in this operation.