Relations between Uighurs and Han Chinese not all bad

[پاكى]

Do you call "a muslim man is allowed to marry four women" a preaching issue or management issue???

How about those enrolling school-age children in religious school v.s. our 9-year education system school? We require all school-age children to be enrolled in our 9-year education system school, not in religious school. Do you call that preaching issue or management issue???

There is nothing I am confused about. It seems that you are the one who gets confused.

Brother,

Neither marrying 4 wives is compulsory nor enrolling in religious-schools is mandated by islamic laws,,,
Marrying more wives is JUST a permission NOT a compulsion...!!!
So if law of land does NOT allow marrying 4 wives then one should follow it. All western countries also do not allow more wives...!!!

& majority of muslims get religious teachings at HOME, NOT at religious schools... Parents are the ones, in almost all homes, who teach religion, or a religious teacher is hired who'd come to home & teach children. Very small minority would actually send their children to "Madras'sas"(religious schools)... So they can do the same in China, teach religion at home...

As far as praying 5 times is concerned it is permitted to combine 2nd prayer with 3rd, & 4th with 5th, under necessity. China is NOT a Muslim majority country so we should NOT expect them to conform their policies for Muslim's needs.

One can combine 2nd & 3rd prayer during lunch break,,, for example.!!!

Sahih Bukhari:20:209.
-----------------------------------------
The Prophet used to offer the Maghrib and 'Isha prayers together whenever he was in a hurry on a journey.

Narrated Ibn Abbas: Allah's Apostle used to offer the Zuhr and 'Asr prayers together on journeys, and also used to offer the Maghrib and 'Isha prayers together.

Narrated Anas bin Malik: The Prophet used to offer the Maghrib and the 'Isha prayers together on journeys.

 

[ephone]

It is very strict in our government, schools such practice is strictly forbidden. There is nothing to be confused. Just ask any government offices whether you can do the islam prayer during the working hours. Our message is quite clear: We do not allow that practice in our public offices.

Of course you can do that at your home or mosque. That is not the point. If you cannot read, nothing I can say. State has strictly limit whatever islam version you can practice. I have listed at least three limitations. In reality, there are much more. If you do not believe it, just ask any uighurs or hui muslim the same question: can they freely practice the islam religion the same way it is done is PK, IRAQ, SAUDI and etc??? The answer is clearly: NO.

On this point, I'm not sure, a bit complicated, because I have a different message in the general government and schools to prohibit any religious missionary, but I also see Christian missionaries in the street at the university, so if you want to pray can go to the mosque after the study, but said some places have set up special places of worship, so I am not a professional, there are some confusing information, it is not a conclusion.

You juggle again, yes, the state certainly is the basis, but it does not conflict with your beliefs. There is not a choice, country or God, in any sense, that does not exist such choice, so do not induce.

 

[ephone]

We do not allow that islam prayer to happen in our public offices, period. Of course, if you go home during lunch hours to pray, that is fine. However, it is not realistic for all muslim officers to go home to pray. If you have to dine in office diner, you cannot pray there. It is NOT allowed. If you want to follow islam strictly, you cannot take public office or go to your private place to do it.

BTW, I do not say China is anti-Islam. What I have said throughout is that China allows islam religion but limit the version of islam muslims can practice. We have this or that limitation and some outsiders call that suppression. For that, I have different opinion about it.

China's limitation is only a way to demonstrate that state and religion are separate. We not only limit what version of islam religion you can practice, we also have limitation on other religions as well.

However, some outsiders call all of those limitation as suppression over religion. Well, I do not think so.

Brother,

Neither marrying 4 wives is compulsory nor enrolling in religious-schools is mandated by islamic laws,,,
Marrying more wives is JUST a permission NOT a compulsion...!!!
So if law of land does NOT allow marrying 4 wives then one should follow it. All western countries also do not allow more wives...!!!

As far as praying 5 times is concerned it is permitted to combine 2nd prayer with 3rd, & 4th with 5th, under necessity. China is NOT a Muslim majority country so we should NOT expect them to conform their policies for Muslim's needs.

One can combine 2nd & 3rd prayer during lunch break,,, for example.!!!

Sahih Bukhari:20:209.
-----------------------------------------
The Prophet used to offer the Maghrib and 'Isha prayers together whenever he was in a hurry on a journey.

Narrated Ibn Abbas: Allah's Apostle used to offer the Zuhr and 'Asr prayers together on journeys, and also used to offer the Maghrib and 'Isha prayers together.

Narrated Anas bin Malik: The Prophet used to offer the Maghrib and the 'Isha prayers together on journeys.

 

[Drawn_Sword_of_God]

Please, if the Kaaba was in China they would have bombed it to SHIZA. Get real.

who would have the balls to piss off 1.5 billion muslims?

 

[ephone]

About food, that is just accommodation. It has nothing to do with limitation. I do not know why you mention that? Anything I have said has anything to do with that???

About punishment, it does not mean there is no serious punishment simply because you do not know. Of course, the local government carries the laws differently and we all know that.

A very simple case is related to the extra children for those peasants in countryside. Our laws have never required to use violence against those who has born extra children. However, the local governments indeed have practiced quite violently in some areas.

For the compulsory 9-year education, due to budget reason, some local governments cannot carry it out successfully and some local governments do not handle out penalty according to our laws. We all know that is reality in some places. However, it does not mean it should not be punished according to our laws.

I said, it is not limited to religion, that there are some limitations in the management, but all are flexible in China, that's a good thing, for example, almost every university has a Muslim restaurant, and even high school.

It will not have any punishment, I would never have seen in China, the usual method is that the Chinese Government to convince him with patience, but sometimes, some people are stubborn, and this time, you still will not be punished, but, your child will face harsh competition in the community, whether your knowledge is sufficient, you have to your own to assume the consequences

 

[ephone]

If the Kaaba were in China, China would have use it as a great way to attract tourism. In addition, we would have put into a lot of police force to maintain the security and prevented those death each year when those muslims stepping onto each other due to over-crowdedness.

Of course, we would not allow any outsider muslim to preach and they can just simply have the visit. That is all. They come and they go home peacefully.

Please, if the Kaaba was in China they would have bombed it to SHIZA. Get real.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Do you call "a muslim man is allowed to marry four women" a preaching issue or management issue???

How about those enrolling school-age children in religious school v.s. our 9-year education system school? We require all school-age children to be enrolled in our 9-year education system school, not in religious school. Do you call that preaching issue or management issue???

There is nothing I am confused about. It seems that you are the one who gets confused.

Since India is the second or third largest Muslim population country, maybe I can comment without the religious baggage being a non Muslim.

As far as 'four wives', they were essential socially in the times Islam came into being. One of the reason was because of continuous war to spread and defend Islam, there were many widows being left behind after the war. If these women did not have the protection of a man, then there could be many social evils becoming rampant. Therefore, polygamy was permitted.

In today's context, with changes in societal norms and economic pressure, the rationale of yore, is no longer valid. In India, the educated Muslim or the aristocratic Muslims do not go in for polygamy. The lower strata of Muslim society are the ones who still believe in polygamy. Yet, even they have realised that given the economic state of the world, it is difficult to spread the meagre income for the good of four wives and quite a few children. They have realised good education and good health gives empowerment and hence are shunning polygamy whereby the income is spent on fewer numbers in the family.

Religion is an important aspect in Islam. So, it follows that religious education is also equally important. Hence, Muslim families get their children educated in the religious scriptures. Nothing really unusual or surprising. If there is a good Imam who teaches the scriptures, there is no reasons for any apprehensions for anyone.

 

[CardSharp]

Do you call "a muslim man is allowed to marry four women" a preaching issue or management issue???

How about those enrolling school-age children in religious school v.s. our 9-year education system school? We require all school-age children to be enrolled in our 9-year education system school, not in religious school. Do you call that preaching issue or management issue???

There is nothing I am confused about. It seems that you are the one who gets confused.

Since India is the second or third largest Muslim population country, maybe I can comment without the religious baggage being a non Muslim.

As far as 'four wives', they were essential socially in the times Islam came into being. One of the reason was because of continuous war to spread and defend Islam, there were many widows being left behind after the war. If these women did not have the protection of a man, then there could be many social evils becoming rampant. Therefore, polygamy was permitted.

In today's context, with changes in societal norms and economic pressure, the rationale of yore, is no longer valid. In India, the educated Muslim or the aristocratic Muslims do not go in for polygamy. The lower strata of Muslim society are the ones who still believe in polygamy. Yet, even they have realised that given the economic state of the world, it is difficult to spread the meagre income for the good of four wives and quite a few children. They have realised good education and good health gives empowerment and hence are shunning polygamy whereby the income is spent on fewer numbers in the family.

Religion is an important aspect in Islam. So, it follows that religious education is also equally important. Hence, Muslim families get their children educated in the religious scriptures. Nothing really unusual or surprising. If there is a good Imam who teaches the scriptures, there is no reasons for any apprehensions for anyone.

sigh... you know you're a bigot when Tiki comes to the defence of Muslims against you.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

If the Kaaba were in China, China would have use it as a great way to attract tourism. In addition, we would have put into a lot of police force to maintain the security and prevented those death each year when those muslims stepping onto each other due to over-crowdedness.

Of course, we would not allow any outsider muslim to preach and they can just simply have the visit. That is all. They come and they go home peacefully.

Non Muslims cannot go to the Kaaba as far as I know.

Therefore, China could not have made it a tourist spot.

---------- Post added at 08:19 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:18 PM ----------

sigh... you know you're a bigot when Tiki comes to the defence of Muslims against you.

I am not defending anything.

I am merely stating the facts.

Is that something I should not do?

ephone has raised issues as he sees it applied in China and has given the rationale, which is valid as far as the Chinese way of looking at Islam.

He has been quite frank about it and has not hedged as some of you do to pretend All IZZZ Well!

 

[CardSharp]

I am not defending anything.

I am merely stating the facts.

Is that something I should not do?

No no I am applauding your attempt to get things straighten out in this case.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

No no I am applauding your attempt to get things straighten out.

Then be good enough to press the Thanks Button and it would be adequate.

On the subject, the Chinese Govt does not like instability. Therefore, finds any action that is not conformist in nature, difficult to allow!

That is why the Mullahs or the Christian priest are selected by the Communist Chinese Govt and the sermons are vetted by the party apparatchik before being delivered!

That is why the Chinese Govt does not allow foreign religious influence, be it for Islam or Christians to influence the Chinese way of thinking.

I find it odd that my explaining the Islamic ways as seen by a non Muslim would make ephone a bigot and extraordinarily, your flamebait you call as 'applauding'!!

 

[CardSharp]

Then be good enough to press the Thanks Button and it would be adequate.

Done and I would equally thumb down ephone incitements to hate speech if I could.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Done and I would equally thumb down ephone incitements to hate speech if I could.

ephone is not doing any hate speech.

He is merely stating honestly the manner in which Islam or any other religion is viewed by the Chinese Govt, and hence the Chinese and the rational behind such a view.

He is honest unlike some of you who wish to look good by purveying spurious bon homie when none exists!

ephone's theme is:

BTW, I do not say China is anti-Islam. What I have said throughout is that China allows islam religion but limit the version of islam muslims can practice. We have this or that limitation and some outsiders call that suppression. For that, I have different opinion about it.

Nothing hateful.

 

[ephone]

What I have indicated throughout my posts simply indicates that China has limitations on the version of islam you can practiced. There are many areas that are allowed in other muslim countries but forbidden in China. We call that State above religions. Some outsiders call that suppression. That is the question I am talking about. It seems that outsiders really like the term "suppression" and use it in every environment they can find.

I have not delved into detailed issues related to what you have indicated in your paragraphs, e.g. historical reasons why polygamy was allowed, for that I knew that long time ago. Its historical context is irrelevant here and it has no say in China Laws. Just like Momon's polygamy also has its historical reason, but doing so will get you imprisoned in U.S. as well.

Since India is the second or third largest Muslim population country, maybe I can comment without the religious baggage being a non Muslim.

As far as 'four wives', they were essential socially in the times Islam came into being. One of the reason was because of continuous war to spread and defend Islam, there were many widows being left behind after the war. If these women did not have the protection of a man, then there could be many social evils becoming rampant. Therefore, polygamy was permitted.

In today's context, with changes in societal norms and economic pressure, the rationale of yore, is no longer valid. In India, the educated Muslim or the aristocratic Muslims do not go in for polygamy. The lower strata of Muslim society are the ones who still believe in polygamy. Yet, even they have realised that given the economic state of the world, it is difficult to spread the meagre income for the good of four wives and quite a few children. They have realised good education and good health gives empowerment and hence are shunning polygamy whereby the income is spent on fewer numbers in the family.

Religion is an important aspect in Islam. So, it follows that religious education is also equally important. Hence, Muslim families get their children educated in the religious scriptures. Nothing really unusual or surprising. If there is a good Imam who teaches the scriptures, there is no reasons for any apprehensions for anyone.

---------- Post added at 10:03 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:00 AM ----------

Done and I would equally thumb down ephone incitements to hate speech if I could.

To idiots like you, anything I have indicated is a hate speech. Ignorant of the truth in China makes yours love speech???

---------- Post added at 10:05 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:03 AM ----------

As if we do not have muslim police force???

BTW, you do not see pictures that China police force showing up in mosque who are not muslim, showing up in temple who are not buddhism??? Aren't such photos plenty already on Internet news???

Remember, in China, State is above religions and police is the enforcement of State laws. In China, State is above whatever your GOD is.

Non Muslims cannot go to the Kaaba as far as I know.

Therefore, China could not have made it a tourist spot.

---------- Post added at 08:19 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:18 PM ----------



I am not defending anything.

I am merely stating the facts.

Is that something I should not do?

ephone has raised issues as he sees it applied in China and has given the rationale, which is valid as far as the Chinese way of looking at Islam.

He has been quite frank about it and has not hedged as some of you do to pretend All IZZZ Well!

 

[ephone]

No matter how we disagree with each other regarding an issue, I have to thank you for indicating that I am not spreading any hate speech.

Thank you for pointing out my theme. That is exactly what I want to emphasize. I do not like outsiders using the term "suppression" without regarding China reality that China is not a religious country, State over religions and China has limitations on certain areas of religions that can be practiced in China. That is all I want to say.

ephone is not doing any hate speech.

He is merely stating honestly the manner in which Islam or any other religion is viewed by the Chinese Govt, and hence the Chinese and the rational behind such a view.

He is honest unlike some of you who wish to look good by purveying spurious bon homie when none exists!

ephone's theme is:



Nothing hateful.