Zionist and Hezbollah/Lebanon War 2006: The Role of Tunnels and Bunkers

[A1Kaid]

Allow me to contribute great knowledge to this forum as always...

In the Summer of 2006 during the Zionist and Hezbollah/Lebanon War, reports confirmed that the underground tunnels that Hezbollah had engineered and dug in Southern Lebanon provided Hezbollah a great advantage in logistics, and position movement.

The Zionist/Israeli soldiers complained that the underground tunnels made it extremely difficult for them to locate and kill Hezbollah soldiers, it was even made it difficult to cut off Hezbollah's arms supply lines!


Great Excerpt from the USA Today Online News

""They have their mission, and it doesn't matter what is happening in other places," he says. "They have the state of mind of jihad, martyrdom, and they will continue to fight until the last one."

Militants have been recruited to protect their own villages. During the fighting, specialized units trained in anti-tank warfare or explosives shuttled from village to village on scooters to launch attacks. Many took cover in well-stocked underground bunkers and tunnels.

The tactics robbed Israel of a quick and overwhelming victory. During their 1982 offensive against Palestinian fighters in Lebanon, Israeli forces pushed through to Beirut in just nine days. This time, they encountered a well-organized guerrilla network armed with Russian anti-tank missiles that easily demolished Israel's heavily armored Merkava main battle tanks." -By Rick Jervis and Andrea Stone

Source: USATODAY.com - From the dust of war, a more potent Hezbollah?

The reason I bring this story up because it highlights the importance of tunnels and well constructed bunkers in warfare!


Hezbollah Promotion Video

Credit: Uploaded by Sundance00 on YouTube.

 

[dr.umer]

British MP George Galloway was interviewed on Sky News regarding Lebanon - Israel conflict.

It's interesting to see how it goes.

 

[Vinod2070]

The tactics robbed Israel of a quick and overwhelming victory.

There is no doubt about this. The Israelis did not achieve their objectives, they failed in anticipating the resistance they would meet.

But Hizbollah caused enormous problems for Lebanon and it's civilians just so it can fire a few rockets into Israel.

For Israel victory meant the destruction of Hizbollah. For Hisbollah it meant just their survival.

So Hizbolah "won" but what have they achieved after their so called "victory"? What are they doing now except firing some rockets if even that?

Israel claims that they are safer because they kill most of their enemies in their beds rather than on the streets of Israel. Time the other countries adopt the same measures!

 

[Kasrkin]

I don't think destroying Lebanon is considered a 'victory' for Israel by anyone including the Israelis themselves, because ultimately it will make more recruits for Hezbollah. The myth of Israeli military competence however was shattered, so different people will make different things out of this conflict…but the fact is that NO ONE can claim that it was an Israeli victory. Given the relative level of resources available to both the sides, it is hard to argue with the fact that Hezbollah really out did themselves and put Muslim Armies across the region to shame. If we consider the sheer volume and scale of wanton destruction caused by both sides as an indication of military victory then aye Israel won, BUT if you consider the effective/economic application and implementation of martial strategy as a measure of victory then Hezbollah matched Israel every bit, if not more. And psychologically Israel is an entire nation, Hezbollah before the war was considered little more than a sectarian based organization therefore relative expectations gave Hezbollah’s victories more significance in the minds of most people. Thus according to BBC/CNN poles Hezbollah’s popularity went up that too right across the Arab world which goes contrary to suggestions that Hezbollah ‘lost’ more than it gained in the war, so now Hasan Nasrallah is apparently the most popular leader in the Middle East despite his lack of official designation. If I was a selfish-terrorist gangster who wanted my own gain at the expense of my country, as Israel claims Hezbollah’s leaders are, then I certainly would consider myself ‘victorious’ after this little altercation.

 

[Vinod2070]

The Israelis are outnumbered to the tune of 50-100 times in the region on most parameters.

If all that the Arab world can do is put up a Gorilla organization against them and take pride in them surviving the destruction of their country, I don't see that as a victory by any means.

Did the Hizbollah "victory" advance the Arab/Palestinian interest by an iota? Not that we know of!

 

[Kasrkin]

That's a pretty naive view to have if you think that Hezbollah was 'fielded' by all the Arabs in the region and that they outnumber the Israelis, etc...Pretty childish. Reality is quite contrary.

The fighting forces deployed by Hezbollah were not even a numerical match to those that constitute the Israeli Defence Forces. The opposing forces participating in the conflict were roughly evenly matched quantitatively, though with greatly varying levels of resources to call upon.

Well the Hezbollah militants did get their prisoners back from Israel, that’s not even mentioning their rise in support and perceived superiority and accelerated demonization of Israel. So it did advance Anti-Israeli interests if you try to perceive things with an open mind.

 

[Vinod2070]

Well, don't try to put words in my mouth. I didn't even say what you mentioned.

Of course the Hizbollah were no match to the IDF. It was a bad op from the IDF POV and I think heads rolled for that.

So it may have been a wake up call for the Israelis, I agree with that. It should be for anyone who is willing to wake up.

that’s not even mentioning their rise in support and perceived superiority and accelerated demonization of Israel. So it did advance Anti-Israeli interests if you try to perceive things with an open mind.

I am not sure I agree with any of this. Those who demonize Israel hardly need any proof or acceleration. There is nothing that Israel can do or not do that will change it.

However, I do believe that Palestinians should get their state and be able to live peacefully with dignity.

What we are discussing is just the fallout of the Lebanon conflict.

 

[Kasrkin]

If all that the Arab world can do is put up a Gorilla organization against them and take pride

There that would perhaps refresh your mind. I was only replying to what I read.

I am not sure I agree with any of this. Those who demonize Israel hardly need any proof or acceleration. There is nothing that Israel can do or not do that will change it.

Well, you yourself were just telling us about how "Israel destroyed the Lebanese nation", it is naive to think that Israel's widely criticized conduct during the conflict will have absolutely no bearing on public opinion particularly in the country they bombed. You don't agree with that ofcourse, perhaps if you would look it up a bit you might be a little more illuminated...but yes Hezbollah DID gain popularity as a direct result of the war.

 

[Vinod2070]

If all that the Arab world can do is put up a Gorilla organization against them and take pride

There that would perhaps refresh your mind. I was only replying to what I read.

This was obviously not to mean that the Arab world combined to put up Hizbollah. It states the obvious fact that no Arab nations that spend billions and billions on the latest arms (many times more than Israel) have dared to fight Israel and left the job for the likes of Hizbollah and Hamas.

I know to some extent the dynamics and even the sectarian undercurrents involved. Hizbollah is not particularly liked by the likes of Saudi and is financed by Iran mainly because of their Shia roots.

Well, you yourself were just telling us about how "Israel destroyed the Lebanese nation", it is naive to think that Israel's widely criticized conduct during the conflict will have absolutely no bearing on public opinion particularly in the country they bombed. You don't agree with that ofcourse, perhaps if you would look it up a bit you might be a little more illuminated...but yes Hezbollah DID gain popularity as a direct result of the war.

Yes, that was a brutal assault on the Lebanese civilians by the Israelis. It is definitely something to be condemned.

What I meant (and you know that) is that there are people who will be satisfied with nothing less than the utter destruction of Israel. For them this incident may add to their supposed reasons, nothing more.

Those who hate them, mainly do so just for existing. The Arabs wanted to throw them in the sea in the 1948 and other wars. That was the term openly used.

Hizbollah's popularity may have grown. What has it achieved for anyone?

 

[TruthSeeker]

The only thing that saves Hezbollah fighters in their tunnels is the unwillingness of Israel to wreak massive destruction through the use of bunker busting ordinance. Israel doesn't use them because it will receive "bad press". If it ever came to a real fight for survival, Israel would wipe out Hezbollah pretty quick, and kill thousands of "civilians" in the process. These tunnel complexes only work when the stronger force has some moral restraint. See: GBU-43/B Massive Ordnance Air Blast bomb (MOAB), "mother of all bombs" in Wiki.

 

[Patriot]

<snipped............>

 

[su-47]

guys, winning against guerrilla warfare is almost impossible in the modern day, where the media highlights every bit of collateral damage.

Right after the German surrender in WW2, the occupying allied and soviet troops faced a lot of guerrilla attacks from well armed Nazis intent on dislodging them from Germany. the allied and soviet retaliation was brutal. they bought down heavy artillery and air strikes on entire population masses as punishment (or revenge rather) for the death of their soldiers, and this resulted in a dramatic downturn in guerrilla warfare.

There is no doubt that Israel failed against Hezbollah, but think for one second what would have happened had Israel used nerve gas. the tunnels wouldnt have done squat for hezbollah. in fact, nerve gas released at the tunnel openings would have turned them into mass graves.

 

[A1Kaid]

This Post was by me in a similar thread, and it is relevant to this thread so that is why I'm posting it here as well.

The Hizbollah may have survived and that constitutes victory for the likes of them.

The nation of Lebanon and the civilians suffered massively in this bargain. Just so that the Hizbollah can continue to fire some rockets!

Actually not only did Hezbollah survive, and won, they became even stronger after the War. There victory has caused a major moral and political upset in Tel Aviv, Ehud Olmert in fact is prepared to resign due to his poor performance during the War.

Hezbollah began a new chapter, where an Arab Army fought successfully the Zionist and humiliated them on the World Stage!!!

They did not fight just to they can fire rockets, understand! The Lebanese people suffered heavily because they were targeted by a Terrorist entity called Israel, they Israelis destroyed deliberately Public Infrastructure filled with civilians! They even attacked a U.N compost in South Lebanon!!!

Shame Shame Shame

 

[Kharian_Beast]

The only thing that saves Hezbollah fighters in their tunnels is the unwillingness of Israel to wreak massive destruction through the use of bunker busting ordinance. Israel doesn't use them because it will receive "bad press". If it ever came to a real fight for survival, Israel would wipe out Hezbollah pretty quick, and kill thousands of "civilians" in the process. These tunnel complexes only work when the stronger force has some moral restraint. See: GBU-43/B Massive Ordnance Air Blast bomb (MOAB), "mother of all bombs" in Wiki.

That's a weak excuse that Israel lost the altercation because they didn't use bunker busters...let's just say having armoured columns and air support is enough of an advantage. They weren't exactly fighting a conventional force. Even the rockets that landed into Israel were minuscule compared to the munition dropped on Lebanese apartment buildings and department stores.

The civilian casualty tells the whole truth. Israel lost on all fronts, hearts and minds being the most obvious.

 

[Sgt Automatic]

Some of you have mentioned and asked how would you concider this an Hesbollah victory. Look first of all Israeli object wasn't just to eliminate the whole of hesbollah as they are a guerilla force and its impossible to do so, what their objective was to get those soldiers back. Whats sad is that they tried to do that through eliminating Hesbollah. Large parts of the Lebanese civilian infrastructure were destroyed, including 400 miles (640 km) of roads, 73 bridges, and 31 other targets such as Beirut's Rafic Hariri International Airport, ports, water and sewage treatment plants, electrical facilities, 25 fuel stations, 900 commercial structures, up to 350 schools and two hospitals, and 15,000 homes. Some 130,000 more homes were damaged.

- On 26 July 2006 Israeli forces attacked and destroyed an UN observer post. Described as a nondeliberate attack by Israel, the post was shelled for hours before being bombed. UN forces made repeated calls to alert Israeli forces of the danger to the UN observers, all four of whom were killed. Rescuers were shelled as they attempted to reach the post, and I am very sure there was a Canadian peace officer in there as one of the casulties.

What the Hesbollahs objective was to get some of the prisioners back from Israel, and they succeded in doing so.

So if you look it at that way the Hesbollah won, and even if you don't wana say that, we/any one would say that Israel failed and normally thats concidered a victory for the other team.

And now millitarily, during the war Total Israeli lost were 163 and out of that 120 were IDF soldiers. I greatly respect how Hesbollah targeted and tried to keep the collateral damage down. On the Other hand, Israel killed 1400 Lebaneese, out of whome 30&#37; were childeren under the age of 13 (UNICEF), Hesbollah lost about 280 fighters all due to the mass cluster bombing.

Many defence analyst suggested that during actualy combat where IDF engaged the Hesbollah, the IDF was sometimes out gunned and out tactic but never out numbered. This clearly shows that Hesbollah had recieved better training, and other nations were envolved. Its like getting the legular infantry to fight against air borne, you know whos gonna come out on top, the air borne as they are better equiped and better trained.