Your move, chief!

[Awesome]

The only concern I have is that Zardari hasn't played his last card. What will be his next move to try and prod the army into action? How low will he go?

The only thing these guys want is, to survive till April. By then senate elections would be over and not to mention the NRO cases would be removed from the Swiss justice department.

Now the question is, would we be content with that solution? To let Zardari serve out till 2013 means to legitimize him and wash away all his pre-1999 corruption cases.

 

[Developereo]

Are you saying he becomes invincible in April?

He could still try to trigger a coup -- think of little Bilawal's political future!

 

[shuntmaster]

I agree with the article that Kayani is doing the right thing. The worst thing you can do to a wannabe martyr is play their game. Let Zardari and co. go down in history for their crimes against the country, not as martyrs.

The only concern I have is that Zardari hasn't played his last card. What will be his next move to try and prod the army into action? How low will he go?

Exactly. The military has still not forgotten the last few months of Musharraf regime. They don't want to make the same mistakes. No one has a solution to Pakistan's current problems. Anyone who takes power will only inherit the problems and get brickbats.
Everyone knows that these problems just didn't come out of the blue in the last few months. These have developed over time since years and decades. What is happening in Pakistan now has its roots in Musharraf regime. Anyone who will be taking over will only be only getting into more problems and making the current regime a martyr.
With the memogate the military has painted itself into a corner, with no much room to menouver, but to retreat. By going on the offensive the PPP government has put the ball in the military court, which has no idea of how to play it now. If the military plays its last ace card of the coup, it will play right into the hands of PPP. If it remains static, it will embolden the PPP to take more potshots at the military in the future.

 

[Developereo]

With the memogate the military has painted itself into a corner,

How so?

Memogate, whether true or false, is just another attempt by Zardari to play the victim. The military did the right thing by not reacting.

 

[All-Green]

Whatever the motives, PA should not interfere.
It is not that PA is comfortable, with the situation as it is...PA is also suffering just like the rest of the nation.

However, it should not reset the political evolution which always ensures that we are taken back to square 1.
Let this evolution occur whereby the nation look towards itself to change things rather than wait for military to change status quo.
Let the people use their vote instead of sleeping on election day giving excuses that there is no use.

When Zardari became president, we all knew that the S**t has hit the fan...military rule is not going to solve this situation for us.

 

[VCheng]

Are you saying he becomes invincible in April?

He could still try to trigger a coup -- think of little Bilawal's political future!

What happens in April that changes the equation?

How so?

Memogate, whether true or false, is just another attempt by Zardari to play the victim. The military did the right thing by not reacting.

Memogate is only a small outward sign of the internal power struggle going on. The danger lies in the distraction caused, allowing external influences to carry on with less of a challenge.

Whatever the motives, PA should not interfere.
It is not that PA is comfortable, with the situation as it is...PA is also suffering just like the rest of the nation.

However, it should not reset the political evolution which always ensures that we are taken back to square 1.
Let this evolution occur whereby the nation look towards itself to change things rather than wait for military to change status quo.
Let the people use their vote instead of sleeping on election day giving excuses that there is no use.

When Zardari became president, we all knew that the S**t has hit the fan...military rule is not going to solve this situation for us.

That is the key; no matter how bad, the political process must get into the routine of orderly change of power by elections, not anything else.

 

[SQ8]

Old turncoats, switching sides for personal benefit, is only a dialogue. Whenever its risen in front of PTI members they have been able to aptly dispel the notion.

The issue is not with the turncoats..
Its the "good for a while" ..
This pattern of "char din ki chandni.." must end.. and for that we need leadership that does not go gaga for power once it gets it.

 

[Developereo]

What happens in April that changes the equation?

Asim's post before mine.

The issue is not with the turncoats..
Its the "good for a while" ..
This pattern of "char din ki chandni.." must end.. and for that we need leadership that does not go gaga for power once it gets it.

The expectation with Imran Khan is that he will put in place a system of accountability.

People come and people go. And people change. But as long as accountability is maintained, there's no problem.

 

[Awesome]

Anyone who takes power will only inherit the problems and get brickbats.
...
...
Anyone who will be taking over will only be only getting into more problems...

Sure anyone who comes at any stage inherits problems of the previous government, any government. But that's not to say that this shouldn't be attempted at all especially through the ballot box. The problems like many bigger problems of the world that were resolved eventually, can also be resolved here. It's a matter of just setting the basics right.

With the memogate the military has painted itself into a corner, with no much room to menouver, but to retreat.

Not really. Considering if Zardari truly is guilty, the military did the right thing by pressing the SC to act on the case. There are some plays that the Army is still left with. Remember Pakistan is not immune to revolutions, it has already seen one major Long March in the effort to restore the Judiciary. This will happen today a lot sooner and a lot bigger if the government makes mis-steps. Who is to say the Army which is seen as fighting for Pakistan's survival midst a president that nearly compromised our nuclear assets, won't get a similar reaction from the public.

Why do you think the PM backed off after sending Showcause notice to Kayani's man? The message may have been delivered, you do this, we'll do that!

This will be the best case scenario for the Army. No coup, but the Presidency got toppled by a revolution! Zardari who gave the statement, "I will go from this Presidency in a bodybag but never resign" will sing very different tunes when the general public would lay the Presidency on siege as was the indication during the previous Long March.

 

[VCheng]

Asim's post before mine...................

Yes, I read that, but was not sure how senate elections and the NRO cases settlement would improve Zardaris' hand against Kayani. I am sure Army has all the leverage it needs now, and in April too. What to do with it is the question.

 

[53fd]

Even before the memo gate episode, Gen Kayani had pledged to respect the democratic institutions. So it's not as if the Pakistan military "ran out of moves". Secondly, the military coups in the past were supported by the Supreme Court, so it's not as if their actions were illegal. This time around, the Supreme Court has ruled out any possibility of a coup, & so has the Pakistan military. Gen Kayani has worked very hard to revitalize the image of the Pakistan Army, he has focused on its job to defeat the terrorists, & the memo gate episode is just an unfortunate incident. The Pakistan Army will not be foolhardy in devising a coup against this regime, it is an unwanted distraction for them.

 

[VCheng]

Even before the memo gate episode, Gen Kayani had pledged to respect the democratic institutions. So it's not as if the Pakistan military "ran out of moves". Secondly, the military coups in the past were supported by the Supreme Court, so it's not as if their actions were illegal. This time around, the Supreme Court has ruled out any possibility of a coup, & so has the Pakistan military. Gen Kayani has worked very hard to revitalize the image of the Pakistan Army, he has focused on its job to defeat the terrorists, & the memo gate episode is just an unfortunate incident. The Pakistan Army will not be foolhardy in devising a coup against this regime, it is an unwanted distraction for them.

Which is why I do not understand how April changes anything in this picture posted above.

 

[third eye]

For you Indians that are taking this as an opportunity to bash Pakistan under the guise of an imperfect democracy I would say the following. democracy in its current form has shortcomings in every country that I can are to think of:

1.India In post 19 an Indian forum member is agreeing with me that the Indian system like the Pakistani system is a sham.

2. The ruling party in the UK received less than 20% of the votes. 80% of the people entitled to vote voted against or didnt vote for the current government. The result of this was that polls showed the public here in the UK were against an invasion of Iraq. but that was carried out in our name.

3. United States. We have a system where to get elected you need large amounts of money. AIPAC the Jewish lobby has undue influence on the foreign policy that it can be argued that American foreign policy is dictated from Tel Aviv. American political hopefuls live in fear of upsetting a small group of organised Jews. Zionists with their shareholdings control large segment of American press that it acts a propaganda arm for Zionists and brain washes the average American voter. One American forum member admitted to me privately by pm that he felt that this was the case.

4 You name the country and I will go and do the research and show you shortcomings.

Anyway we can discuss this on another thread back to topic PPP will stoop to any level to retain power. This idiot of a leader Zardari will as he sees power slipping away use the Sind card

No system can be perfect. Just as democracy as we know it is im perfect so is the rule of Military. The latter leaves less for the ppl to have a say.

In an imperfect democracy the end date for any Govt is known which is not possible in a dictatorship.

Its more about empowering ppl to take decsions abt themselves, thats all. If Pak is happy with the Generals its fine.

@ the subject, GOP ( Islamabad) has achieved what it wanted i.e. to prevent GOP ( Pindi) from ousting it.

 

[lem34]

I agree with the article that Kayani is doing the right thing. The worst thing you can do to a wannabe martyr is play their game. Let Zardari and co. go down in history for their crimes against the country, not as martyrs.

The only concern I have is that Zardari hasn't played his last card. What will be his next move to try and prod the army into action? How low will he go?

when push comes to shove he will play the sind card. I dont know if any of you remember but at the last election before the result he touched on it as a threat to if elections were not fair. I took it as an implied threat that if PPP loses badly thats what he would have said. I worry that PPP will be routed at the next election with maybe a fair showing in Sind and Zardari will go down that route.

 

[RazPaK]

Even if we some how manage to drag Zardari out of office, He will sell Pakistan out to the highest bidder, because he was not planning to leave at all, let alone gracefully. Remember this is the same man grooming his son for office. My concerns are completely legitamate.