Y. The big Why?

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

Although a more detailed reply is needed the narrative of the evil, decadent West has been told for quite a while. It really took off during the Soviet war where we saw an influx of individuals, ideas etc which saw turning your nose up at anything western as something enlightening.
Of course we need to be carful , there are negative trends in the west which are now hurting their societies e.g. the decline in Christianity, the fall of the family unit, confusion of genders etc. But the narrative had been built up so much that it permeated through to fields of a academic study. You take what you need, why was Pakistan doing so well in its early years? It wasn’t blighted by dogmatic thought.

Now add the poison of corruption which I believe is the biggest reason, and you have the current trend. Interestingly you had the figure heads of corruption be them politicians, religious leaders and even military personal sending their kids to the west to gain all the wholesome benefits. The irony is here that the sons and daughters of poor folk had to continue life as best as they could.

I think it's more deeper than that. Even in a social setting, blacks will mix, converse, marry and breed with White Western people en-masse whereas the vast majority of Pakistanis will not. Let's be honest, for those of us Pakistanis who were born and raised in the UK, we have had that awkward, odd feeling when aroud white people. That we don't fit in. We are too different. We feel out of place with them. It's not hatred, it's just that us Pakistanis are not compatible with White Western people and their way of life. Hence we find it hard to adopt modernity.

 

[Indos]

Isn't this obvious? East Asians are not majority Muslim nations unike Pakistan @beijingwalker

East Asian is pretty much Atheist. Even the religion that they largely embrace in the past is Budhism which is also Atheist in principle. I dont know why but Muslim always feel proud with Islam as we regard ourselves as the chosen people.

The OP belief on Islam is pretty much weak as he also has admitted.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Of course it applies to Turkey. Erdogan is reversing Ata Turks secularization of Turkey

NO HE IS NOT.

Erdogan is merely scoping Turkey to resemble liberal Western democracies like UK. Eveerything he has done has brought Istambul closer to London. Hijab is not banned. Officials can chose to swear on the bible or Quran. Nominally the Church of England is part of the establishment. In Turkey the Diyanet controls mosques. The similiarties are uncanny.

Turkey's Erdogan defends secularism

Turkey's Erdogan defends secularism

Turkish President Tayyip Erdogan said on Tuesday the state should have an equal distance from all religious faiths following a call by the speaker of

english.alarabiya.net

 

[User]

What you say is all factually correct but there is one big overriding factor. Pakistanis are very different to ALL other non-whites in that they find it EXTREMELY difficult and virtually impossible to adopt the Western culture and way of life. On the other hand, blacks and East Asians find it very easy to do so. Have no idea why this is though.

Sir I believe our reluctance is stemmed in the days when Britishers started ruling us. Muslims didn`t welcome the Western culture whereas Hindus did and they excelled till the time Sir Syed Ahmad Khan came and told us there was nothing to be scared of.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

The OP belief on Islam is pretty much weak as he also has admitted.

Can you leave my belief out of this. This is a discussion about the subject in hand and not about me. Can you understand that or you don't know the meaning of reasoned discourse?

 

[Norwegian]

Sir I believe our reluctance is stemmed in the days when Britishers started ruling us. Muslims didn`t welcome the Western culture whereas Hindus did and they excelled till the time Sir Syed Ahmad Khan came and told us there was nothing to be scared of.

But Indian majority that is Hindu fails at adopting Western civilization too. Just look at that Vedic moron Modi they worship as Bhagwan

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Pakistanis are not compatible with White Western people and their way of life. Hence we find it hard to adopt modernity.

You know I often agree with you but on this I beg to differ. If we are not "compatible" then why do million of us choose to live here. It must mean that our "incompatability" can't mean much as other mundane factors supercede it.

 

[Norwegian]

If we are not "compatible" then why do million of us choose to live here.

Because of money and greed not because of their love for Western culture

 

[User]

But Indian majority that is Hindu fails at adopting Western civilization too. Just look at that Vedic moron Modi they worship as BhagwanView attachment 712915

Sir I forgot to mention we are also conservative. We tend to store old broken furniture, thinking it`s a relic.

 

[Norwegian]

We tend to store old broken furniture, thinking it`s a relic.

Low IQ nation

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Because of money and greed not because of their love for Western culture

True. But that means the reasons that inform our incompatibility do not mean much because we are prepared to strain them for sake of money. This tells us what value we really give to our beliefs. It just makes us cowardly hypocrites.

You see we don't want to evolve a society that will succeed because we insist as a country to hold on to primitive desi minds. That means our countries are forever trapped in vicious poverety, dirt, rubbish and crime. Then we race to get to the West to escape from the hell we created. But when we get here we sniff at the societies that have given us a comfortable home.

Low IQ nation

A cat, dog, donkey are characterised by being unable to adopt. The ability to change and evolve is a uniquely human quality. A donkey will keep repeating the same thing again, again and again even if it gets nowhere. Mankind has reached where it has because of its ability to evolve.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

I invite the cream of the PDF to answer a simple question. Why -

• Pakistani society as a whole chooses to fall back on it's own failed culture and history in order the address the terrible state the country is in? Let's call this the desi solution.
• Chinese, Japanese, Koreans, Vietnamese, Taiwan and other successful countries show no reluctance or shame in openly grabbing Western ideas, reshaping their societies Asian iterations of the West?

The remarkable fact is East Asians did not and do not appear to get caught up in this shame complex we have in our desi cultures in accepting or adopting Western ideas where they clearly are superior to ours? I give some simple examples. The Japanese during the Meiji Restoration effectively aped and transformed Japan into a European outpost in Asia. From fashion, to government, to laws, to science etc everything was copied from the West turning Japan from a medieval feudal society to a modern society.

"The Meiji Restoration was a period of change and modernization for Japan, in which there were set education standards that improved the system for education, and in which there was established a parliament and a different legal system, a new constitution, a highly centralized and bureaucratic government, a well "

The Chinese also went through this process of adopting everuthing Western. The CCP adopted Karl Marx who was a German and had written his Communist Manifesto in London. CCP adopted a Western model with Russian influences - this can be seen in how CCP flag resembles Soviet flag and gave it a Chinese flavour.

Why do Pakistani's struggle with ideas from the West and often even use it as a pejorative. You don't see this in Beijing or Tokyo? Despite arguably Pakistan as a civilization has been historically closer to the West. Islam is a Abrahamic faith along with Christianity and Judaism. Our languages are related to European language families. Even genetically we are part of the wider Western family.

This issue also afflicts most Muslim countries although lesser so then Pakistan. One Muslim country that this does not apply to is Turkey which during the Ataturk period [as can be seen today Turkey is rising star with Istanbul more London on the Bosphorous then Islamabad] went through similiar Western transformation like China did under CCP, Japan during Meiji period.

Note: I include India in this question as well because this applies to that country as well, although not as pronounced as in Pakistan.

@AgNoStiC MuSliM @Black.Mamba @Joe Shearer @Yankee-stani @waz @saiyan0321 etc

short answer to your question is
Mullah the Political Thug.

same Mullah who declared that listening to Radio or travelling by train or learning English will invalidate Marriage, result in Eternal hell after expulsion from Islam.

this Thugish mindset is an invaluable free gift for those entities that will keep Pakistan where it is.

 

[Kambojaric]

As others have pointed out, unfortunately in our society westernisation is equal to decadence and immorality which is in so many shapes and forms ironic!

E.g. Prior to Covid and even occasionally post Covid I take the bus to work. There is no payment required and basically nobody monitoring whether you have paid or not except the occasional conductor one sees maybe once or twice a year. This is only sustainable because high public morality and character dictates that one should always pay the tram/bus fee and most people will just buy a ticket on their phone. Conversely in our society if you offer a service and do not enforce its cost, people will abuse it till the day you are bankrupt and stop the service. I hate generalisations and there are many good people in Pakistan too but on a societal level our morality is far behind the much-hated westernised societies. Japan is a wonderful example of how one can maintain ones own unique identity whilst still embracing the modern world.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Of course it applies to Turkey. Erdogan is reversing Ata Turks secularization of Turkey

I think the AKP's 'reversal' of secularization was more of a response to 'extreme' secularization. Turkey, before the AKP, seemed to be headed the direction of France in some ways - Hijab banned etc.

A true moderate State would allow for both - people to practice and display their faith freely as well as ensuring that the practice of faith does not infringe upon the rights of others who do not follow XYZ faith.

Hopefully Turkey will be able to find a balance between extreme secularism ala France and religion being forced upon those who do not desire it.

 

[Norwegian]

short answer to your question is
Mullah the Political Thug.

same Mullah who declared that listening to Radio or travelling by train or learning English will invalidate Marriage, result in Eternal hell after expulsion from Islam.

this Thugish mindset is an invaluable free gift for those entities that will keep Pakistan where it is.

Who gave Mullahs political milage but our beloved establishment? Mullah Military alliance needs to be broken.