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World will accept Nuclear Iran

Israel has not signed the NPT, Iran has. Basically, Iran gave its word to not pursue nuclear weapons development in return for recieving dual use nuclear technology from the West to be used towards peaceful nuclear energy development.

Let me put it this way, Israel got all the advanced nuclear technology from the West without giving any commitments. India and Pakistan also never signed the NPT and never put forward any commitments on the table, still they went through years of international sanctions and condemnation. Why the West didn't impose similar sanctions on Israel?

Fact remains, the United States has conveniently picked which nations can and which cannot possess nuclear weapons.

Basically Iran has lied to the world and used that lie to its benefit, in which case Iran's word means nothing, in which case why do you believe that Iran wouldn't threaten India? Iran's nukes were given to it by Pakistan.

Did I ever express support for Iran's nuclear program? Few Indians would because of the possible adverse repercussions. United States is half a globe away, whereas Iran is barely a few thousand miles from India's western border.

But yes, there is a growing realization that it is already too late to convince Iran to give up nuclear weapons and instead, focus should be on a strategy to deal with a nuclear Iran. And at the same time, we also wonder what caused Iran to pursue nuclear weapons with such vigor.

India has not had to live under the threat of total destruction, how will it feel when Pakistan doesn't have 100, but 2000 weapons because anti-proliferation efforts have broken down and now the largest and smallest countries race for whoever has the biggest arsenal because they don't have to worry about a united response?

Read about the events of Indo-Pakistani war of 1965 when a nuclear armed China repeatedly threatened to intervene in the war in support of Pakistan. Read about the events of Indo-Pakistani war of 1971 when the U.S.' Nixon administration sent a nuclear aircraft carrier to the Bay of Bengal in support of Pakistan. Read the comments of then Pakistani President Gen Pervez Musharraf who threatened to use nuclear weapons if India retaliated for the numerous Pakistani sponsored terror attacks in the country.

And you are claiming India has never had to live with the threat of total destruction?

South Africa was a nuclear power and they willingly gave theirs up for the NPT. Were they idiots?

I don't understand how the case of South Africa is relevant here. Which country threatens South Africa? Namibia? Botswana? Nah, it is Lesotho!

South Africa does not have any arch-rivals against whom it would have used nuclear weapons as a deterrence.

There was no concept of 'abusing' nuclear weapons because there were no laws for nuclear weapons in WW2, much like there was no 'abuse' of chemical weapons in WW1.

There are some laws which are written in the law-book. And there are some laws which form an inherent part of the civilized human society. Usage of atomic weapons, under any circumstances, is definitely an abuse of those laws. And till date, only one country has used atomic weapons, and unfortunately, that country continues to be involved in conflicts around the globe.

You are speaking of a cold war stigma, and you can't tell me you believe the USSR wouldn't have gotten and tested nuclear weapons if the US hadn't used one, I'm fairly sure you aren't so naive. It was a bigger bomb, the stigma wasn't there until the arsenals were in the thousands. You are telling me that despite all the effort that went in to preventing things from getting further out of control... effort that came from both the US and the Soviet Union, that you want to throw all that away so any country is 'equal' with 2,000+ nuclear weapons? You want chaos.

OK, let us assume that USSR would have developed nukes no matter what. But how many of the Warsaw Pact countries ended up having nuclear weapons? Compare that with NATO countries - three. Are you suggesting that the US didn't play a role in the British and French acquiring nuclear weapons? You think the world is that naive?

Despite the fact that the Soviet Union went on a frenzy to develop nuke warheads, fact remains USSR acted much more responsibly with regard to nuclear proliferation compared to the US.

You are cheering the potential growing nuclearization of the world in one breath and blame it on the US in the other?

Firstly, no part of my previous comment suggest that I'm "cheering the potential growing nuclearization of the world".

Secondly, list down all the countries which either possess or are developing nuclear weapons and then analyse how many of them feel threatened by the United States and how many of them got nuclear weapons through US aid (whether technical or diplomatic). You'll get your answer.
 
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Achha your leaders are ghulam and our people? Isin't our country being ruled by our leaders who Indians hate as much. Anyways, drones are being faced by people not leaders. And only a ghulam can swallow that. So u have no pride. LOL
The current bloodsucking ruling elite in Pakistan (who Pakistanis hate) are ghulam of Amreeka like indians are. Not the people of Pakistan. You will see a real leader and real representative of Pakistanis come to power soon (IMRAN KHAN).

Even then the curent bloodsucking ruling elite never voted against Iran.

Look at this thread. All indian ghulam supporting amreeka and terrorist israel over Islamic Republic of Iran.
 
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If terrorist state Israel has it, Iran can have it too.
 
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I noticed quite a few comments here by Pakistanis suggesting that India opposes Iranian nuclear program because of the United States and Israel. That is wrong beyond logic. Just because India opposes Iranian nuclear program does not mean that India is kowtowing to USA and Israel.

A detailed study of India's foreign policy over the past few years reveals the following --

1) India has never supported military action as a solution to Iranian nuclear program. India has even opposed economic sanctions against Iran. Instead, India has repeatedly argued that diplomatic negotiations are the only way forward to deal with the situation (significantly different from the approach followed by US and Israel)

2) Despite pressure from the West, India continues to maintain significant economic relations with Iran. India purchases 400,000 barrels of oil per day from Iran amounting to billions of dollars every year.

3) India's strategic relations with Iran are ever- growing. India and Iran share similar strategic interests in Afghanistan and are collaborating to a great extent. For example, India is constructing a new road to link Afghanistan with an Iranian port in the Persian Gulf

India plans 'world's most dangerous railroad' from Afghanistan to Iran - Telegraph

4) Ahmadinejad has visited India twice already - April 2008 and August 2011. Several high level representatives from both countries regularly hold talks much to the anger of the United States.

5) And finally, India recently abstained from a UN vote condemning Iran's alleged role in Washington assassination plot --

India abstains from UN vote against Iran - Times Of India


The above points clearly show that India continues to maintain strong ties with Iran and the nuclear issue is among the only few bone of contentions between the two countries.

And just to clarify, India opposes Iran's nuclear program only because it fears that these nukes could cause greater tensions and nuclearization in the Middle East. That fear is shared by most nations, including Russia and China.
 
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Guess Iran is going to go nuclear. Thought I never liked the concept of more nuclear weapons states, it seems unavoidable.

The point of getting a nuke (Especially when targeting USA) is that whether the developer can strike US mainland or not. Because USA won't give a horse's tail if its bases in Arab world get pulverized. Israel is not a soft target to threaten US as Israel itself is armed to teeth with nukes and cutting edge missiles.

So the question Iranian missile makers should answer is whether they can strike US mainland or not as that would really be a true deterrent.
 
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[/B]people like me? You mean the guy who's going to graduate from the second best law school in Canada in 4 years, walk around like he owns the place and order around the white guys in their own country? That guy? lmao
buddy, you can't do **** to us Iranians. To us, the world is our playground.

As far as I'm concerned, there is no evidence that Iran is going after nukes. Also, the NPT was signed by a slave of your country, the shah, and thus, it has zero meaning for us. The only reason we haven't pulled out yet is we don't want to give you warmongering trigger happy weirdos reason to go apeshit. Once you guys hit the crapper (by the looks of it you guys will go the way of the Soviets very soon) or we feel we're strong enough to defend ourselves, we will pull out. Untill then, we will milk it as much as we can.

It is self evident you are not schooled in international law, or hold such a disdain for it as to render your schooling useless for your purposes.

You admit your country never opted out, either under the old or current regime. You know your country took dual use equipment meant for peaceful energy development. You admit that even if evidence of Iran having nuclear plans now is not found, you expect it to have nuclear weapons sometime in the future when they 'feel strong enough to defend ourselves'. Until that point, you admit that you believe your country is milking the npt of all it can (which can only mean dual use nuclear equipment) .

You know your country has built covert nuclear facilities without informing the IAEA of their construction. Iran has been given years worth of opportunities to come clean/ work with the IAEA to better shed light on the situation, but has not done so, and you approve of this. That Iran has still kept its actions with regards to its nuclear intentions opaque is telling, that the Iranian parliament is debating withdrawal only strengthens the questions on Iran's intentions.

All thats left that's stopping Iran from leaving the NPT and coming out into the open with nuclear arms to do 'whatever the hell we want, like 2500 years ago' is the UN's will and the might of the western coalition that is the only credible multinational force with the capability of destroying Iran's ambitions.

Your true colors have been shown, the day you long for will be stopped by bunker busters if it cannot be stopped with diplomacy, and maybe you will have an extended stay in Canada where you are free to voice your opinions and put your education to use.
 
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The NPT was always a toilet paper, to some fools it seemed like the holy grail.

so this many people are fools?

800px-NPT_Participation.svg.png


Include India to that list for this purpose as while not a signatory to the NPT, they abide by it.

The same beef that lured you to attack Iraq, I suppose!
The way Iran could make sure it doesn't end up like Iraq is to be forthcoming with its actions and to speak with an eye for reconciliation with the IAEA, preferably by making all facilities not currently under IAEA watch open to inspection to verify Iran's intentions. If they are so peaceful, there is absolutely nothing to worry about, and the US and other Western governments will look very bad for their sanctions and rhetoric.

Saddam didn't think we'd attack while keeping his actions vague and intentions hostile, he was wrong.

The US did more to Iraq in 3hours than Iran did in 3 years, and this was when we had less infrastructure and less advanced equipment in the Middle-East than we do today. Please keep this in mind.

Saddam said himself he wouldn't have made the same mistake if he'd known the US would attack, I hope Amhadinejad or Khomenei doesn't have to make the same speech.

This is a time for Iran to come clear with its actions and verify how truly they have followed the NPT if they have done so. The does not want to force Iran to make its actions clear, and they are sincerely hoping they won't have to.
 
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i will explain you that,

so the moral of story: Iran needs NUKE to keep away US.

hypothetically assuming Iran becomes a nuclear power and gets 5,000 nukes, how does that prevent the US from conducting operations within Iran? The US had spies in the Soviet Union.
 
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Let me put it this way, Israel got all the advanced nuclear technology from the West without giving any commitments. India and Pakistan also never signed the NPT and never put forward any commitments on the table, still they went through years of international sanctions and condemnation. Why the West didn't impose similar sanctions on Israel?

According to Wikipedia the time it is believed that Israel gained operational nuclear weapons capability was 1967, the NPT was opened for signatures in 1968 and came into force in 1970. India and Pakistan detonated their first in 1974.

Fact remains, the United States has conveniently picked which nations can and which cannot possess nuclear weapons.

Except for India and Pakistan, all nuclear powers gained their weaponry before the NPT. That no more nuclear powers have appeared so far, either by diplomacy or force, should tell you how seriously it has been taken.


Did I ever express support for Iran's nuclear program? Few Indians would because of the possible adverse repercussions. United States is half a globe away, whereas Iran is barely a few thousand miles from India's western border.

On closer look I see you did not either implicitly or explicitly give support. I obviously misunderstood you and so I apologize for my error. :oops:

But yes, there is a growing realization that it is already too late to convince Iran to give up nuclear weapons and instead, focus should be on a strategy to deal with a nuclear Iran. And at the same time, we also wonder what caused Iran to pursue nuclear weapons with such vigor.

The true reason for Iran's push is only known to the leaders, but (imo) the best guess is regional politics, much like Saddam. They don't take the implicit threat of force from the West seriously and desire a greater position in the Middle-East, perhaps in the world with a greater implicit threat than temporarily mining the straits. They don't believe a coalition will be formed, or otherwise feel the coalition will be too adverse to losses to succeed. Where they get such confidence from is not totally without reason, but neither is it a safe assumption as of yet.

Read about the events of Indo-Pakistani war of 1965 when a nuclear armed China repeatedly threatened to intervene in the war in support of Pakistan. Read about the events of Indo-Pakistani war of 1971 when the U.S.' Nixon administration sent a nuclear aircraft carrier to the Bay of Bengal in support of Pakistan. Read the comments of then Pakistani President Gen Pervez Musharraf who threatened to use nuclear weapons if India retaliated for the numerous Pakistani sponsored terror attacks in the country.

And you are claiming India has never had to live with the threat of total destruction?

The US surely never had plans to spend the totality of its nuclear arsenal on India, if for nothing else than because there wouldn't be any left for the Soviet Union, and Pakistan's nuclear arsenal is not enough to assure total destruction, even with China in the mix at the time. That said I agree that it's rather moot point between total destruction and enough destruction to send the remnants back into the stone age.

So I concede the point.


I don't understand how the case of South Africa is relevant here. Which country threatens South Africa? Namibia? Botswana? Nah, it is Lesotho!

South Africa does not have any arch-rivals against whom it would have used nuclear weapons as a deterrence.

If Iran was clear with its nuclear actions who would be contemplating attacking Iran? Up until the Green revolution the stability of Iran's domestic politics was not particularly in question, and the Cold War is long past. While supplying insurgents in Iraq and jockeying for influence would draw America's ire, that has already been shown to have not resulted in invasion. On top of this the US would hardly desire to overthrow Iran's regime and potentially cause instability in oil markets unless the alternative was even more unacceptable.

Israel and Iran can't even reach each other in any militarily sustainable fashion. The only reason Israel contemplates an aerial strike is the fear of Iran's program.

So is it Saudi Arabia or nationalist Kurds?

There are some laws which are written in the law-book. And there are some laws which form an inherent part of the civilized human society. Usage of atomic weapons, under any circumstances, is definitely an abuse of those laws. And till date, only one country has used atomic weapons, and unfortunately, that country continues to be involved in conflicts around the globe.

The easy answer to your question is that there was no 'civilized society' of the modern definition among the warring nations, only societies at war.

Those were the days of societies at war in every sense of the word. There were more deaths from firebombings of Tokyo. There were more deaths from conventional bombings in different countries, none of which have the same popular impact of the atomic bomb. This is because of the Cold War and the prominent role nuclear weapons played.

OK, let us assume that USSR would have developed nukes no matter what. But how many of the Warsaw Pact countries ended up having nuclear weapons? Compare that with NATO countries - three. Are you suggesting that the US didn't play a role in the British and French acquiring nuclear weapons? You think the world is that naive?

Despite the fact that the Soviet Union went on a frenzy to develop nuke warheads, fact remains USSR acted much more responsibly with regard to nuclear proliferation compared to the US.

Russia supplied China with nuclear technology and based its nuclear weapons within the Soviet controlled Belarus, Ukraine, and Kazakhstan The nuclear weapons remained in their control with the breakup of the Soviet Union. Belarus, Ukraine, and Kazakhstan returned the weapons to Russia and joined the NPT, while France and Britain are recognized nuclear powers who gained their capability before the NPT.

Firstly, no part of my previous comment suggest that I'm "cheering the potential growing nuclearization of the world".

Secondly, list down all the countries which either possess or are developing nuclear weapons and then analyse how many of them feel threatened by the United States and how many of them got nuclear weapons through US aid (whether technical or diplomatic). You'll get your answer.

To the first sentence, I will once again apologize for my false attribution.

To the rest, the US indeed supplied the UK with nuclear weapons technology, but France developed its own independently (actually soon after the Suez crisis) When Charles De Gaulle was in charge. He had a known distrust of the US and USSR which was strengthened after the Suez crisis.

Israel was supplied its nuclear technology from the UK around the early 1960's (before 1965). This was before the US had the current relationship with Israel, whose relationship's roots were born in 1967, after the 6 day war.

The rest is rather unrelated to the real question of the US' nuclear proliferation responsibility as they were rather far from the pole the US was on during the Cold War, but the USSR gave technology to China, who gave help to Pakistan, afterwhich the knowledge made its way to North Korea, who is not quite a nuclear power as of yet.

India developed its own.
 
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