World looks anew on Balochistan as China dreams big

[muse]

muse

unfortunately foreign policy is in the hands of pakistani generals .You know the same ones who are hesitating to clean up Fata areas of terrorist cause they cant decide which one is good Taliban and which is bad? All solutions you mentioned are also involve military.Can you or any body honestly see the Generals given up their powers to put pakistan on right track. pasha blamed the military elite for all problems pakistan face today(straight from horses mouth)and refused to take responsibility for his own actions even though he was part of that elite.

you think Same military will be OK with being dismantled and re assembled as we speak they are investigating who released the report to foreign media not their failures.

None of these eventualities would have been under discussion if the Pakistan Army was not the Mercenary, Jihad centered, Pan Islamist, Surrendering and anti-Pakistan.

Of these the most serious problem with the Pakistan Army is that it is in fact anti-Pakistan.
The hell you say.
Yes, precisely, The Pakistan army is in fact anti-Pakistan
How so?
No institution in Pakistan is more responsible for the near death of Jinnah's Pakistan and the creation of the islamist nightmare out of Pakistan than the Pakistan army and it has the distinction of being an Army that has never delivered victory to Pakistan against a foreign foe - so the Pakistan army is essenitally anti Pakistan in the the sense that it thinks that it owns Pakistan, and that in it's calculations, it has seen fit that 50000 Pakistanis and counting, are sacrifices it can force upon Pakistan, so the interests and privileges of the Pakistan Army are maintained. This sense is backed up by holding the Pakistani nation hostage through it's armed force of some seven hundred thousand men.

Will they give up holding the Pakistani nation and State hostage? If the reform process is done through legislation, I think it will have a very difficult for the Pakistan Army to be seen as acting against legislation - particularly when the PML-N has a large majority.

Events do not have to come to this, if (yes, it's a big IF and it's the Pakistan army we are talking about) the Pakistan army takes upon itself to change it's ideological orientation and works over time to deliver dead talib and dead sectarian terrorists, it can avert much of the reconstruction coming it's way

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

muse

unfortunately foreign policy is in the hands of pakistani generals .You know the same ones who are hesitating to clean up Fata areas of terrorist cause they cant decide which one is good Taliban and which is bad? All solutions you mentioned are also involve military.Can you or any body honestly see the Generals given up their powers to put pakistan on right track. pasha blamed the military elite for all problems pakistan face today(straight from horses mouth)and refused to take responsibility for his own actions even though he was part of that elite.

you think Same military will be OK with being dismantled and re assembled as we speak they are investigating who released the report to foreign media not their failures.

From the countless articles,discussion etc... ive come to know tht it the political parties tht are shying away from operation in N waziristan and not the army....
@muse captain britain.... i salute you.. "sarcasm"...

 

[Cheetah786]

From the countless articles,discussion etc... ive come to know tht it the political parties tht are shying away from operation in N waziristan and not the army....
@muse captain britain.... i salute you.. "sarcasm"...

DESERT FIGHTER political party leader ship in pakistan has one and only one concern safe the kursi at all cost.You know and i know that if army wanted to clean up FATA areas they dont need permission from any political party.As i said before they wanna safe guards good Taliban and kill bad ones.well till bad Taliban start to carry name tags thats never going to happen.

We spend more then we can afford to on our military. yet they have absolutely positively nothing to show for.cleaning up these messes will mean smaller budgets and no generals is going to like that . They know as long as they can keep this mess going it's in their best interest. I will quote one of their own pasha'' we are a falling state cause of our military elite and political elite''.

Put all these Generals pay on performance bases and watch the house cleaning in days. ISI claims to have given lintel about the attacks to police and others at the same time ISI claims not to wanna share any Intel.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

DESERT FIGHTER political party leader ship in pakistan has one and only one concern safe the kursi at all cost.You know and i know that if army wanted to clean up FATA areas they dont need permission from any political party.As i said before they wanna safe guards good Taliban and kill bad ones.well till bad Taliban start to carry name tags thats never going to happen.

We spend more then we can afford to on our military. yet they have absolutely positively nothing to show for.cleaning up these messes will mean smaller budgets and no generals is going to like that . They know as long as they can keep this mess going it's in their best interest. I will quote one of their own pasha'' we are a falling state cause of our military elite and political elite''.

Put all these Generals pay on performance bases and watch the house cleaning in days. ISI claims to have given lintel about the attacks to police and others at the same time ISI claims not to wanna share any Intel.

Thts a flawed arguement put forward by anti army lobby.... yes the army could go n but the operation wouldnt be successful.... for a successful operation you need public aswell as political support... just like Op Rah e Rast etc.... as for good taliban n bad taliban... Il ask you a question... why should Pak get involved with the afghan taliban when US itself is negotiating with them? does it make sense?

 

[Argus Panoptes]

First thing to do is to put the Pakistani house in order - Foreign policy is a reflection of internal dynamics and compulsions.

Yes, Pakistan can blame India for making mischief through Afghanistan, but India can argue, much as Pakistan arguers in Captive kashmir, that it is not twisting anyone's arm to make mischief against the state - the fact of the matter is that only Pakistan can solve Pakistan's problems.

So how does the Pakistan state put the Pakistani house in order?

First and foremost, the absoluter number one priority, reform the Army, and clean up the Army's agencies, in the sense that their function and mission and chain of command is made crystal clear, through legislation.

And then build some serious confidence in India - I mean SERIOUS, the India is not averse to Pakistani claims in Captive Kashmir, however, if you insist that the basis of these claims is confessional, you put the Indian in a position where he cannot politically justify engagement - The Indian says Ok, we'll talk Kashmir, but lets talk trade and normalization first (foreign policy is a reflection of internal, domestic dynamic and compulsions)

At the same time the Pakistani state has to reverse this Islamism BS, How? the same way it started it, through the schools and through official patronage and lets be clear, without a constant and genuinely conscious effort to build social awareness of the precariousness of Pakistan's existence and the absolute necessity to take actions in support of the economy - look, Pakistanis can handle the truth, just tell them the truth, they can tell sincerity and they will respond to the truth.

Let's see now, the chances for each of these steps to be implemented are as follows:

Reform the Army = 0%.
Build confidence with India = 0.0%
Reverse the Islamist tendencies = 0.00%.

Anything else to suggest Sir?

 

[muse]

@Cheetah786

Thts a flawed arguement put forward by anti army lobby.... yes the army could go n but the operation wouldnt be successful.

See how it works? Everything else the Army does it does with complete support of the population - on one hand it;s flawed and on the other, yes they could but it would not be successful, like so many others.

Let's see now, the chances for each of these steps to be implemented are as follows:

Reform the Army = 0%.
Build confidence with India = 0.0%
Reverse the Islamist tendencies = 0.00%.

Anything else to suggest Sir?

Lol, and I thought I was a pessimist

 

[Sedqal]

Let's see now, the chances for each of these steps to be implemented are as follows:

Reform the Army = 0%.
Build confidence with India = 0.0%
Reverse the Islamist tendencies = 0.00%.

Anything else to suggest Sir?

Don't be such a pessimist. Things are changing for better

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Any Balochistani voice...?

Lets see how will it help Balochistan rather Pakistan..

a one liner with a very thought provoking question my dear. I wonder if it was a typical reflex action or did you know what you asked here.

we are a tribal society. be it Kashmir, Sindh, Punjab or Balochistan. our priorities are immediate family members, clan, then region and then province.

would the militants under the orders of their warlords blow up infrastructure, kill labourers and kidnap engineers? they definately
will

but would it stop the inevitable? NO

what is inevitable? the change of this death spiral, central corruption and the blackmail of the sardar dynasties who have one brother as the Chief minister and the other in the mountains kidnapping people and blowing up pipelines
once the people will have food in their belly and a sustainable source of income then they will show a middle finger to anyone which will try to put a spanner in the progress of the province.

 

[navtrek]

I want India encircled and squeezed.

The next steps should be to cultivate their separatist movements and help them to flourish.

I believe there is more potential for insurgency in India than in Pakistan due to demographics, population size and scope of governance.

We must help them to implode from within. This can be achieved in 30-40 years but it is vital for the regional balance of power.

For there to be peace in the region India must die.

lol is your mind peaceful ? first that should be the question because so much of hate and planning man pathetic.

I just wish Pakistan flourishes well with the investment and please become a model Islamic country.

 

[Jade]

infact you Indians must remember that in international game plan indeed only self interest matters and hence GWADAR serve more self-interests of China than only trade with India.

These Chinese interests NOT only include trade but also defence as well help in keep Chinese engine of economy running with smooth supply of OIL.

90% of Chinese population resides on east cost. At most, GWADAR is going to service Xinjiang or some adjacent areas. 90% of the oil for China is going to go through Indian Ocean Region. So it is Pakistani imagination that GWADAR is something China will depend on for energy needs.

And no way GWADAR is going to be $100 billion trade equivalent. Pakistan is useful for China not because Pakistan has a port, but because Pakistan can keep India busy while China can service its other strategic objectives.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

@Cheetah786

Thts a flawed arguement put forward by anti army lobby.... yes the army could go n but the operation wouldnt be successful.

See how it works? Everything else the Army does it does with complete support of the population - on one hand it;s flawed and on the other, yes they could but it would not be successful, like so many others.



Lol, and I thought I was a pessimist

Simple questions... why did the operation in early 2000s fail? is the govt ready for more taliban violence?is the govt there to support the army in a massive operation ... like in the past?after musharaf what "unconstitutional" activity has been performed by the army?

90% of Chinese population resides on east cost. At most, GWADAR is going to service Xinjiang or some adjacent areas. 90% of the oil for China is going to go through Indian Ocean Region. So it is Pakistani imagination that GWADAR is something China will depend on for energy needs.

And no way GWADAR is going to be $100 billion trade equivalent. Pakistan is useful for China not because Pakistan has a port, but because Pakistan can keep India busy while China can service its other strategic objectives.

Sir i hope ur stupidity isnt contagious..

 

[Jade]

Can you please "quote" anyone except that lunatic in your avatar who might have said so?

Nobody gives attention to what Zaid Hamid says (I remember him say 10 years ago that in next 5 years Pakistan is going to be on moon ) .

It is most Pakistani analysts that say Gwadar has military significance. Now it has become a regular feature by Pakistani media to bring China into Indo Pak equation with Gwadar being one of 'pearl' to encircle India.

 

[Developereo]

what is inevitable? the change of this death spiral, central corruption and the blackmail of the sardar dynasties who have one brother as the Chief minister and the other in the mountains kidnapping people and blowing up pipelines
once the people will have food in their belly and a sustainable source of income then they will show a middle finger to anyone which will try to put a spanner in the progress of the province.

Is it? inevitable?

Has all the development in Sindh and Punjab freed the rural masses from their feudal overlords?

Should we expect anything different in Baluchistan?

 

[Argus Panoptes]

Don't be such a pessimist. Things are changing for better

Funny you should mention that.

Chances for things to get better = 00.000%.

 

[Sedqal]

Funny you should mention that.

Chances for things to get better = 00.000%.

We finally have political parties mature enough to keep military out of politics. Thanks to internet there is a general awakening in youth about their rights. Judiciary has never been that active or that blunt. Media is discussing matters which never became a part of public domain.

Army always used Mullahs for their backup (its been the same since medieval times) but TTP has finally alienated a common man from Islamist groups. All in all things are moving in a positive direction.