Will the advanced Chinese- Pakistani "JF-17 Block 3" fighter be the next guest of the Egyptian Air Force?

[Tornado23]

View attachment 735041


You are always trying to create an illusory superiority of the Pakistan Air Force and forget the most important thing
Pakistan was defeated in all its major wars with India
Defeated in War of 65
It was dismembered in the 71st war and Bangladesh broke away from any illusory superiority it speaks of

The Pakistani pilot was superior in his ability to breathe at high altitudes and was accustomed to the lack of oxygen of the old aircraft.
Pakistanis are demonstrating their superiority over the Indians by shooting down an old MiG-21, whether by the F-16 or the JF-17. We let you talk a lot and create for themselves an illusory victory, and we do not object, not just because of your conviction or your abilities, but simply because we do not want to enter into an argument in matters that do not accuse us.

Even the Arab-Israeli wars, Egypt in 73 triumphed over Israel with lagging planes, the MiG 17 and the MiG 21 surpassed the Mirage 3 and the Phantom at the hands of the Egyptians, and we have the longest air battle in which we won. You by a Pakistani pilot who participated in one of the wars create myths and imaginations about your being the most distinguished, and this has become ridiculous. Extremely

Egypt did not enter many wars after the October War for a simple reason. Israel does not want to go to war with a big country like Egypt again. The Turks fled the confrontation in front of the Egyptian army in Libya. Is our being the strongest and our enemies betraying us because we do not have the ability

Pakistan does not have the capabilities to even make maneuvers like Qadar-2020 or HASM-2020, and it does not have extensive maneuver capabilities like what Egypt does with dozens of countries and does not have complex and varied training facilities like Egypt. It is clear that in order for you to assemble a low-level plane you think yourselves are superior. Egypt is basically not interested in Pakistan nor Pakistan pilots and if the Egyptians think you are really good and there is a benefit from training with you, we would have held training exercises with you, just as we do with Greece, France, America, England, Italy and NATO. Do not live in illusions and everyone knows its size and value.

Okey dokey.

Where to start?

First off, no. Pakistan hasn't lost a single war to India at all.

65 was not a defeat. It was a stalemate. Both sides returned the land they gained to each other resulting in no territorial gain for either country.

71 was a defeat for Pakistan due to the Mukti buhini. Not because of India. At the end of the war India only gained kargil whereas we gained the chamb (120sqm). The rest of the war was ended via a UN mandated ceasefire.

In all of the wars and conflicts that Pakistan and India had fought, the PAF has always had consistency in maintaining its superiority over the Indian air force.

65 - air superiorty was achieved on the 2nd day of the war. The end result was 79-114 IAF fighters shot down/destroyed for 19-20 PAF aircraft shot down/destroyed.

71 - as per the Cia; 71 IAF aircraft shot down/destroyed (both fronts) whereas 42 PAF shot down/destroyed/scuttled (34 in the west).

The IAF was unable to gain air superiorty over the PAF during the 71 war. They were constantly contested and shot down by either our air force or AD.

You are comparing this to the piss poor performance of the EAF during the Arab-Israeli wars. The only notable time the EAF did something was during the air battle of mansoura where they fended off an IAF attack despite the overwhelming odds.

That's a commendable feat I have to admit... When compared to the rest of the air battles between the EAF and IAF. Majority of the air craft losses of the IAF was due to the Egyptian AD. Not because of the air force. Your airforce was unable to counter the Israeli Air force effectively. Ours did.

That's the difference.

 

[Deltadart]

He seems Indian by the way he comments. Possibly a LARper.

I mean which Egyptian would gloat the Indian military against the pakistan military in the wars we fought?

You have a valid point. I suspected that about him myself.

 

[The SC]

Okey dokey.

Where to start?

First off, no. Pakistan hasn't lost a single war to India at all.

65 was not a defeat. It was a stalemate. Both sides returned the land they gained to each other resulting in no territorial gain for either country.

71 was a defeat for Pakistan due to the Mukti buhini. Not because of India. At the end of the war India only gained kargil whereas we gained the chamb (120sqm). The rest of the war was ended via a UN mandated ceasefire.

In all of the wars and conflicts that Pakistan and India had fought, the PAF has always had consistency in maintaining its superiority over the Indian air force.

65 - air superiorty was achieved on the 2nd day of the war. The end result was 79-114 IAF fighters shot down/destroyed for 19-20 PAF aircraft shot down/destroyed.

71 - as per the Cia; 71 IAF aircraft shot down/destroyed (both fronts) whereas 42 PAF shot down/destroyed/scuttled (34 in the west).

The IAF was unable to gain air superiorty over the PAF during the 71 war. They were constantly contested and shot down by either our air force or AD.

You are comparing this to the piss poor performance of the EAF during the Arab-Israeli wars. The only notable time the EAF did something was during the air battle of mansoura where they fended off an IAF attack despite the overwhelming odds.

That's a commendable feat I have to admit... When compared to the rest of the air battles between the EAF and IAF. Majority of the air craft losses of the IAF was due to the Egyptian AD. Not because of the air force. Your airforce was unable to counter the Israeli Air force effectively. Ours did.

That's the difference.

Moshe Dayan said in his memoirs (quoting the full verbatim text that the Israeli defense minister's office provided to the special investigation committee, then to the Knesset Defense Committee, and finally to the editors of all Israeli newspapers to explain the military position to them - which the military censor absolutely refused - and gave Strict instructions not to publish any word that Diane said.)

"I want to state very clearly that we do not now have enough power to bring the Egyptians back across the Suez Canal again..Egyptians have advanced weapons, and they know how to use these weapons against our forces, and I do not know any other place in the whole world that is protected by all these missiles. As it is in Egypt .. The Egyptians use anti-tank missiles and aircraft with complete accuracy and success .. Every Israeli tank advancing towards the Egyptian sites is hit and becomes unfit for war: ... Dayan continues and says: "The position now is that the Egyptians have succeeded in crossing to the east with numbers of tanks. Armored vehicles exceed what we have in the Sinai ... Egyptian tanks and armored vehicles are supported by long-range guns, missile batteries and infantry armed with anti-tank missile."

Regarding the Israeli Air Force, Dayan said, "The air force faces many difficulties, and that the losses in it were many planes and pilots due to the missile batteries and the Egyptian air force" .. And Dayan adds: "I say quite frankly that if we had continued our attempts to push the Egyptians through the canal once again. Other losses, in terms of equipment and men, would have been so great that Israel would have remained without any military force."

Dayan continues to speak, saying that the Egyptians have a lot of armored vehicles and they are strong..and they have concentrated their forces over the past years in preparing their men for a long, arduous war with advanced weapons that they have trained with and absorbed completely .. That is why we abandoned our plans to push the Egyptians back through the Suez Canal, and we abandoned the plans for the attack on the Egyptian front and stationed our forces in new defensive lines ... thus confirming his complete abandonment of the strong points in the Bar Lev Line, which ended as a defensive line for the Israelis ... Moshe Dayan admitted, "And the word is still the literal text of it" as follows:

- That the most important thing for the Israelis and the world is to recognize that we are not stronger than the Egyptians, and that the state of Israeli military superiority has disappeared and ended forever. Therefore, the theory that asserts the defeat of the Arabs (in hours) if they fight Israel is wrong ..

- The most important meaning is the end of the Israeli security theory in relation to Sinai .. We have to repeat our studies and work to concentrate in new defensive places, because the Egyptian military superiority in the Sinai cannot be confronted, and I cannot present a rosy picture of the situation on the Egyptian front because the situation is far from all. Away from the new pictures.

- We are faced with two tasks, "the first" is building new defense lines, and the "second" is to restore our strategy and build our military strength on new foundations..because we are now paying a heavy price every day in this war ... we lose dozens of planes, pilots, equipment, tanks and artillery every day with all of them. ... it is enough that during the first three days of the war we lost more than fifty planes and hundreds of tanks .. Dayan ends his words by saying, "We have to understand that we cannot continue to believe that we are the only military force in the Middle East ... because there are new facts that we have to coexist with." ..

-------------------------------
​

So if this was the Usraeli defense minster speaking at that time.. It is very hard to see how those Usraeli worshipers think or got their opinions and information from..This can be explained only by people trying to hide the truth either by jealousy, envy or cheer ignorance,, and anything to sooth their sick minds..

-------------------------------​

- The Soviet estimate was 280 Usraeli fighter aircrafts were shot down by Egypt..while the latter lost approximately 200 aircrafts..

- In her speech to the Knesset on October 21, 1973, in which she also announced her acceptance of a ceasefire, Golda Meir announced that Israel's losses until that day amounted to 302 fighter planes, bombers and 25 helicopters.

- American and French estimates also indicated that Israel's losses in manpower during the October 1973 War amounted to at least ten thousand people. This number far exceeds the total Israeli losses in personnel from 1948 until before October 1973, which was estimated at six thousand dead. Moshe Dayan admitted that their losses in the Yom Kippur War were three times what they lost in the 1967 War. But analysts described this as a blatant deception. An American expert confirmed, after a visit to Israel after the October War, that the number of Israelis killed in this war is 4 times the official figures announced, with official Israeli estimates reaching 2,500 dead. As for the number of wounded Israelis, it reached 20 thousand officers and soldiers, in addition to the missing.

Therefore, there was a saying in Israel that confirms that after the Yom Kippur War there was either a dead, wounded, or prisoner in every Israeli home. Therefore, the Israeli military commentator Hiroshimi stated in the Israeli newspaper Maariv that there is no neighborhood, street, or kibbutz in Israel without families crying because of the Israeli casualties in the October War, and experts estimate the number of Israeli deaths in the October War that its ratio to the number of the population is equivalent to the loss of 750,000 for the United States. . In other words, Israel's human losses in this war are equivalent to three times the losses of the United States in the ten-year Vietnam War. These experts indicate that the ratio of the dead Israelis to the population has reached 1: 300, or 0.3%. By comparing the losses with the number of inhabitants - Israel would have lost six times in the Yom Kippur War as Egypt lost in the June 1967 war. Thus, Egypt had proved that it was capable of successful military planning and of inflicting painful losses on Israel.

In view of Israel's losses in arms, international estimates indicated that it amounted to 1,000 tanks in addition to 300 aircraft, which is equivalent to 50% of the total number of Israeli tanks and aircrafts. While the losses of the Arabs in tanks amounted to a third of Israel's losses, and in the aircraft a fifth of the Israeli losses, despite the theory that the losses of the attacking party are always greater than the losses of the defending party. Thus, the estimates of experts and international military observers came to confirm that the Egyptian and Syrian armies came out of the war and their basic structure is completely intact and capable of returning to fight again with full force, and had it not been for the incredible American aid to the Israeli army, it would have remained unfit to fight again after years.

https://www.ahewar.org/debat/nr.asp

 

[Tornado23]

Moshe Dayan said in his memoirs (quoting the full verbatim text that the Israeli defense minister's office provided to the special investigation committee, then to the Knesset Defense Committee, and finally to the editors of all Israeli newspapers to explain the military position to them - which the military censor absolutely refused - and gave Strict instructions not to publish any word that Diane said.)

"I want to state very clearly that we do not now have enough power to bring the Egyptians back across the Suez Canal again..Egyptians have advanced weapons, and they know how to use these weapons against our forces, and I do not know any other place in the whole world that is protected by all these missiles. As it is in Egypt .. The Egyptians use anti-tank missiles and aircraft with complete accuracy and success .. Every Israeli tank advancing towards the Egyptian sites is hit and becomes unfit for war: ... Dayan continues and says: "The position now is that the Egyptians have succeeded in crossing to the east with numbers of tanks. Armored vehicles exceed what we have in the Sinai ... Egyptian tanks and armored vehicles are supported by long-range guns, missile batteries and infantry armed with anti-tank missile."

Regarding the Israeli Air Force, Dayan said, "The air force faces many difficulties, and that the losses in it were many planes and pilots due to the missile batteries and the Egyptian air force" .. And Dayan adds: "I say quite frankly that if we had continued our attempts to push the Egyptians through the canal once again. Other losses, in terms of equipment and men, would have been so great that Israel would have remained without any military force."

Dayan continues to speak, saying that the Egyptians have a lot of armored vehicles and they are strong..and they have concentrated their forces over the past years in preparing their men for a long, arduous war with advanced weapons that they have trained with and absorbed completely .. That is why we abandoned our plans to push the Egyptians back through the Suez Canal, and we abandoned the plans for the attack on the Egyptian front and stationed our forces in new defensive lines ... thus confirming his complete abandonment of the strong points in the Bar Lev Line, which ended as a defensive line for the Israelis ... Moshe Dayan admitted, "And the word is still the literal text of it" as follows:

- That the most important thing for the Israelis and the world is to recognize that we are not stronger than the Egyptians, and that the state of Israeli military superiority has disappeared and ended forever. Therefore, the theory that asserts the defeat of the Arabs (in hours) if they fight Israel is wrong ..

- The most important meaning is the end of the Israeli security theory in relation to Sinai .. We have to repeat our studies and work to concentrate in new defensive places, because the Egyptian military superiority in the Sinai cannot be confronted, and I cannot present a rosy picture of the situation on the Egyptian front because the situation is far from all. Away from the new pictures.

- We are faced with two tasks, "the first" is building new defense lines, and the "second" is to restore our strategy and build our military strength on new foundations..because we are now paying a heavy price every day in this war ... we lose dozens of planes, pilots, equipment, tanks and artillery every day with all of them. ... it is enough that during the first three days of the war we lost more than fifty planes and hundreds of tanks .. Dayan ends his words by saying, "We have to understand that we cannot continue to believe that we are the only military force in the Middle East ... because there are new facts that we have to coexist with." ..

-------------------------------
​

So if this was the Usraeli defense minster speaking at that time.. It is very hard to see how those Usraeli worshipers think or got their opinions and information from..This can be explained only by people trying to hide the truth either by jealousy, envy or cheer ignorance,, and anything to sooth their sick minds..

-------------------------------​

- The Soviet estimate was 280 Usraeli fighter aircrafts were shot down by Egypt..while the latter lost approximately 200 aircrafts..

- In her speech to the Knesset on October 21, 1973, in which she also announced her acceptance of a ceasefire, Golda Meir announced that Israel's losses until that day amounted to 302 fighter planes, bombers and 25 helicopters.

- American and French estimates also indicated that Israel's losses in manpower during the October 1973 War amounted to at least ten thousand people. This number far exceeds the total Israeli losses in personnel from 1948 until before October 1973, which was estimated at six thousand dead. Moshe Dayan admitted that their losses in the Yom Kippur War were three times what they lost in the 1967 War. But analysts described this as a blatant deception. An American expert confirmed, after a visit to Israel after the October War, that the number of Israelis killed in this war is 4 times the official figures announced, with official Israeli estimates reaching 2,500 dead. As for the number of wounded Israelis, it reached 20 thousand officers and soldiers, in addition to the missing.

Therefore, there was a saying in Israel that confirms that after the Yom Kippur War there was either a dead, wounded, or prisoner in every Israeli home. Therefore, the Israeli military commentator Hiroshimi stated in the Israeli newspaper Maariv that there is no neighborhood, street, or kibbutz in Israel without families crying because of the Israeli casualties in the October War, and experts estimate the number of Israeli deaths in the October War that its ratio to the number of the population is equivalent to the loss of 750,000 for the United States. . In other words, Israel's human losses in this war are equivalent to three times the losses of the United States in the ten-year Vietnam War. These experts indicate that the ratio of the dead Israelis to the population has reached 1: 300, or 0.3%. By comparing the losses with the number of inhabitants - Israel would have lost six times in the Yom Kippur War as Egypt lost in the June 1967 war. Thus, Egypt had proved that it was capable of successful military planning and of inflicting painful losses on Israel.

In view of Israel's losses in arms, international estimates indicated that it amounted to 1,000 tanks in addition to 300 aircraft, which is equivalent to 50% of the total number of Israeli tanks and aircrafts. While the losses of the Arabs in tanks amounted to a third of Israel's losses, and in the aircraft a fifth of the Israeli losses, despite the theory that the losses of the attacking party are always greater than the losses of the defending party. Thus, the estimates of experts and international military observers came to confirm that the Egyptian and Syrian armies came out of the war and their basic structure is completely intact and capable of returning to fight again with full force, and had it not been for the incredible American aid to the Israeli army, it would have remained unfit to fight again after years.

https://www.ahewar.org/debat/nr.asp

Thank you for the reply.

However I was talking about and comparing the performance of the Egyptian Air force compared to that of the PAF.

I commend the Egyptian army for their gains and achievements in the 73 war, however the performance of the EAF was very much lack luster. Majority of the iaf casualties were due to egyptian AD units namely their SAMs.

Tbh I'm very grateful for this reply. Having researched this war I always found the Israeli casualties to be... Odd.

Having seeing this content it shows how many lies they (Israel) say.

 

[The SC]

Thank you for the reply.

However I was talking about and comparing the performance of the Egyptian Air force compared to that of the PAF.

I commend the Egyptian army for their gains and achievements in the 73 war, however the performance of the EAF was very much lack luster. Majority of the iaf casualties were due to egyptian AD units namely their SAMs.

Tbh I'm very grateful for this reply. Having researched this war I always found the Israeli casualties to be... Odd.

Having seeing this content it shows how many lies they (Israel) say.

"Majority of the iaf casualties were due to egyptian AD units namely their SAMs."..

It is known that Egypt opened that war with a stealthy attack with 200 mig-21s..They fought during that war till the end..although Egypt prepared a wall of anti-air missiles That wasn't easy to achieve before the war due to repeated Usrali air attack on it to prevent it from being completed ..and that since 1970..So what its use if not to shoot down those Usraeli fighter planes that were one generation more advanced than what Egypt had at the time!.. So yes.. it was a combination of powerful AD and smart dog-fighters..

 

[Tornado23]

"Majority of the iaf casualties were due to egyptian AD units namely their SAMs."..

It is known that Egypt opened that war with a stealthy attack with 200 mig-21s..They fought during that war till the end..although Egypt prepared a wall of anti-air missiles That wasn't easy to achieve before the war due to repeated Usrali air attack on it to prevent it from being completed ..and that since 1970..So what its use if not to shoot down those Usraeli fighter planes that were one generation more advanced than what Egypt had at the time!.. So yes.. it was a combination of powerful AD and smart dog-fighters..

Yes it is known that Egypt opened that war up with both its air force and army across the bar lev line.

However what the EAF did was lack luster. Their initial strikes on [REDACTED] air fields did little to no damage to the air field itself nor did the it hamper the [REDACTED] air force fighting capability.

The EAF mostly held CAPs around key Egyptian positions that was inside Egypt. They very rarely held CAPs over the battlefield itself to establish air superiorty. And when they tried to intercept [REDACTED] air strikes on Egyptian positions they had very little success in doing so.

The Egyptian AD did something. They shot down many [REDACTED] air craft trying to attack them. The air force didn't do much damage. It was very lack luster. That was down to pretty much their pilot training. Now I don't know what's the pilot training like for the EAF now, but buying such expensive toys won't save you.

 

[The SC]

Yes it is known that Egypt opened that war up with both its air force and army across the bar lev line.

However what the EAF did was lack luster. Their initial strikes on [REDACTED] air fields did little to no damage to the air field itself nor did the it hamper the [REDACTED] air force fighting capability.

The EAF mostly held CAPs around key Egyptian positions that was inside Egypt. They very rarely held CAPs over the battlefield itself to establish air superiorty. And when they tried to intercept [REDACTED] air strikes on Egyptian positions they had very little success in doing so.

The Egyptian AD did something. They shot down many [REDACTED] air craft trying to attack them. The air force didn't do much damage. It was very lack luster. That was down to pretty much their pilot training. Now I don't know what's the pilot training like for the EAF now, but buying such expensive toys won't save you.

I guess ignorance got the better of you..You can't save your brain and heart..

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/flying-arab-aces-1967-1973.665676/

 

[Juggernaut_Flat_Plane_V8]

India and Spain were actively involved in this project as the dimensions of this aircraft were similar to India’s first Indigenous fighter aircraft HAL HF-24 Marut, so an engine development meant for the Egyptian fighter would mean an engine for HF-24 Marut as well, sadly both HA-300 and HF-24 programs were stopped due to engine issues, Engine was the drawback in HF-24 which capped it to be a subsonic fighter instead of a supersonic fighter, difference was HA-300 never went to mass production and fly in Egyptian Airforce colours while HF-24 saw mass production and became combat proven in real war, and total 147 were manufactured. But engine issues stalled both HA-300 and HF-24 Program. I mentioned this because both programs were interlinked in powerplant development.

thanks

 

[jamal18]

Gentlemen, this hand bag swinging is getting out of hand. Read any independent review of the war and you will find that the arab forces were extremely competent, the results on the battlefied prove this.

The largesse Israel received from the US was literally endless. The reason president sadat gave for accepting the ceasefire was that, in his estimation, for the last ten days of the war Egypt had been fighting the US, not Israel.

 

[Tornado23]

I guess ignorance got the better of you..You can't save your brain and heart..

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/flying-arab-aces-1967-1973.665676/

I am not being ignorant.

What I am being is truthful. From what I researched the EAF was lack luster in both wars (67 & 73), but in 73 they faired better due to a smaller tech disparity between the 2 air forces.

With the equipment the Egyptians got, they should've inflicted so much more damage on the iaf. But they didn't.

Sharing a few pilot aces from 67 and 73 doesn't mean much to me when looking at the entirety of the air war. I mean for goodness sake, 67 was absolutely terrible for all arab nations.



Nepotism, poor military training and planning has led the Arab militaries to ruination. With the combined firepower that the Arab militaries possessed in 73, they should've easily wiped Israel off of the face of the earth. But they didn't...

I'm not here to shit on the soldiers or pilots of the Arab militaries. God no. I salute and honour them for what they did just like I do with pakistan or turkey.

But I'm sorry my dude. The EAF is not as good as you thought it was. Yes it shot down iaf fighter jets. But in return they lost even more in a2a fights.

 

[Tornado23]

Gentlemen, this hand bag swinging is getting out of hand. Read any independent review of the war and you will find that the arab forces were extremely competent, the results on the battlefied prove this.

The largesse Israel received from the US was literally endless. The reason president sadat gave for accepting the ceasefire was that, in his estimation, for the last ten days of the war Egypt had been fighting the US, not Israel.

The soldiers, pilots and sailors are brave and fearless. The generals and leaders are brainless.

The Arab militaries suffer from nepotism which translates into bad news. A lack of training and planning was the demise of most Arab militaries. See KSA today in Yemen or Egypt in the Sinai. With their firepower they should not be taking so many causalties whilst inflicting 'a few more' casualties on the terrorists. The terrorists casualties should be x10 more than the shaheed.

 

[jamal18]

The soldiers, pilots and sailors are brave and fearless. The generals and leaders are brainless.

The Arab militaries suffer from nepotism which translates into bad news. A lack of training and planning was the demise of most Arab militaries. See KSA today in Yemen or Egypt in the Sinai. With their firepower they should not be taking so many causalties whilst inflicting 'a few more' casualties on the terrorists. The terrorists casualties should be x10 more than the shaheed.

Both the Americans and the Israelis believed that the Egyptians couldn't cross the canal. The planning and execution was so flawles that the Israelis kept saying that russian officers were among the Egyptians. All this was planned by Egyptian officers.

You don't pull off that kind of manouvre, then become stupid fro the rest of the War.

Remeber, a lot of the reporting is by a zionist Israel friendly press, they wil always give the Arabs a bad score.

 

[Tornado23]

Both the Americans and the Israelis believed that the Egyptians couldn't cross the canal. The planning and execution was so flawles that the Israelis kept saying that russian officers were among the Egyptians. All this was planned by Egyptian officers.

You don't pull off that kind of manouvre, then become stupid fro the rest of the War.

Remeber, a lot of the reporting is by a zionist Israel friendly press, they wil always give the Arabs a bad score.

Operation Badr... I know of it.

It was a damn good operation I agree. But just as with successes comes failures. Sadly for the Arab militaries the failures outweighed the successes.

Point in case. With the US assistance of SR71 blackbirds, the Israelis counter attacked the Egyptians and flanked their military. I'm not to sure how true it is that they were near the vicinity of Cairo, but if it is true then the fact they were allowed to do that points out a major flaw in the Egyptian military planning.

The Egyptians ultimately lost the huge of amount of momentum they gained from operation Badr. It was not retained. Had they retained it, then not only the sinai would've been back in Egyptians hands, but Palestine would've been freed. That did not happen.... Sadly

But even if we look at todays Arab militaries, even without the zionist propaganda we can see they are incompetent. They are so many videos I have seen where the Arab militaries leave their tanks out in the open without infantry or even drone support to cover them. Next thing you know that same tank has just been hit by Atgm and the crew just took casualties.

The KSA literally lost Ah64 apaches to houthi insurgents. They are losing thousands of soldiers to them.

The Arab militaries are weak.

They can only be strong once they unite and finally get rid of the nepotism and allow someone with actual experience and training to be a general for once. That would be good and it will happen Inshallah

 

[jamal18]

Operation Badr... I know of it.

It was a damn good operation I agree. But just as with successes comes failures. Sadly for the Arab militaries the failures outweighed the successes.

Point in case. With the US assistance of SR71 blackbirds, the Israelis counter attacked the Egyptians and flanked their military. I'm not to sure how true it is that they were near the vicinity of Cairo, but if it is true then the fact they were allowed to do that points out a major flaw in the Egyptian military planning.

The Egyptians ultimately lost the huge of amount of momentum they gained from operation Badr. It was not retained. Had they retained it, then not only the sinai would've been back in Egyptians hands, but Palestine would've been freed. That did not happen.... Sadly

But even if we look at todays Arab militaries, even without the zionist propaganda we can see they are incompetent. They are so many videos I have seen where the Arab militaries leave their tanks out in the open without infantry or even drone support to cover them. Next thing you know that same tank has just been hit by Atgm and the crew just took casualties.

The KSA literally lost Ah64 apaches to houthi insurgents. They are losing thousands of soldiers to them.

The Arab militaries are weak.

They can only be strong once they unite and finally get rid of the nepotism and allow someone with actual experience and training to be a general for once. That would be good and it will happen Inshallah

1. The Israelis could only counter attack because the US replaced all their losses. It was irrelevant how many losses the Egyptians inflicted on them, the US woulld replace them. With this political fact, it made an egyptian defeat inevitable.

2. The US guarantees Israel unconditional support, this means that the often stated belief that Israel could have been destroyed is totally ridiculous.

3. With Israeli/US air superiority, the idea of the Egyptian army moving towards the Israeli border was never even a possibility. The Egyptians knew this. Infact the plan called for crossing the canal and little beyond that because of strategic realities.

 

[The SC]

I am not being ignorant.

What I am being is truthful. From what I researched the EAF was lack luster in both wars (67 & 73), but in 73 they faired better due to a smaller tech disparity between the 2 air forces.

With the equipment the Egyptians got, they should've inflicted so much more damage on the iaf. But they didn't.

Sharing a few pilot aces from 67 and 73 doesn't mean much to me when looking at the entirety of the air war. I mean for goodness sake, 67 was absolutely terrible for all arab nations.



Nepotism, poor military training and planning has led the Arab militaries to ruination. With the combined firepower that the Arab militaries possessed in 73, they should've easily wiped Israel off of the face of the earth. But they didn't...

I'm not here to shit on the soldiers or pilots of the Arab militaries. God no. I salute and honour them for what they did just like I do with pakistan or turkey.

But I'm sorry my dude. The EAF is not as good as you thought it was. Yes it shot down iaf fighter jets. But in return they lost even more in a2a fights.

Now you are talking BS.. and showing more ignorance about the subject.. 67 war there was no air fights.. Comparing the Mig 17 and Mig 21 to the F-4 in 73 and saying a small difference is utter ignorance as the F-4 was a full generation ahead of anything Egypt had.. The Arabs were fighting the US behind tiny Usrael.. if you didn't know that you shouls stop talking about this subject..

Anyway the end justify the means and you can't do nothing about it with your jealousy here.. Egypt got back its Sinai by force of arms..air, land and sea..