Why there can't be a full democracy in Iran

[gambit]

But they don't follow it well... The constitution is being broken all the time. Like spying on your own citizens... Killing own USA citizens without a trail or any accusation (Abdul Rahman al Awlaki)... Allowing unlimited super pacs that can flood the US people with misinformation... tampering with votes (george bush, florida 2000)

In my opinion certain European models of democracy are much, much better.

Like I said -- mindless. You have neither the reasons behind each of your criticism nor do you care to know them.

Fail... I know both of them... Not everyone is as ignorant as your average American, thats your mistake when you speak to an Iranian... You should now you are speaking to a highly smart race of people that will continue to clown your ignorance on this website...

If you know them, you would not have demanded that we 'opened' up to a third party. Am willing to bet that you did not even know that the Communist Party of the USA existed. So the fail is -- YOURS.

 

[Shahin Vatani]

Like I said -- mindless. You have neither the reasons behind each of your criticism nor do you care to know them.


If you know them, you would not have demanded that we 'opened' up to a third party. Am willing to bet that you did not even know that the Communist Party of the USA existed. So the fail is -- YOURS.

Read what I posted again, I said PROPER party. I know you have a lot of rinky dink BS parties that nobody gives a sh*t about...

 

[Surenas]

But they don't follow it well... The constitution is being broken all the time. Like spying on your own citizens... Killing own USA citizens without a trail or any accusation (Abdul Rahman al Awlaki)... Allowing unlimited super pacs that can flood the US people with misinformation... tampering with votes (george bush, florida 2000)

Every democracy faces it's own difficulties with his system. The problems you mention are mainly caused by the 9/11 attacks and the results of those attacks. The system doesn't know how to react on such a new phenomenon and so exaggerates in trying to deal with it. In the country I live, more people are relatively being tapped than in the US.

In my opinion certain European models of democracy are much, much better.

Which models?

 

[Shahin Vatani]

Every democracy faces it's own difficulties with his system. The problems you mention are mainly caused by the 9/11 attacks and the results of those attacks. The system doesn't know how to react on such a new phenomenon and so exaggerates in trying to deal with it. In the country I live, more people are relatively being tapped than in the US.



Which models?

England and Norwegian models are better in my opinion... But they arent perfect either... You have to realize Iran is a special case. I too believe we will gain democracy in time as well... But it will not be the American form for sure. We will bring something that will suit our needs.

 

[Surenas]

England and Norwegian models are better in my opinion... But they arent perfect either... You have to realize Iran is a special case. I too believe we will gain democracy in time as well... But it will not be the American form for sure. We will bring something that will suit our needs.

Well, I rather prefer the American one. Freedom all the way. I also hope (and think) Iran will get a democracy, but I also have little doubts on it. We don't really have a democratic history, like certain European countries have, and we always have lived by monarchial or theocratic models.

 

[Shahin Vatani]

Well, I rather prefer the American one. Freedom all the way. Well, I hope (and think) Iran will get a democracy, but I also have little doubts on it. We don't really have a democratic history, like certain European countries have, and we always have lived by monarchial or theocratic models.

We could have had democratic history if US and UK hadn't overthrown Mosadegh as I said before in another post. Having oil in Iran has been somewhat of a curse, as other countries want our oil and try to control our politicians as a result. That makes having a history of democracy very hard.

 

[Surenas]

We could have had democratic history if US and UK hadn't overthrown Mosadegh as I said before in another post. Having oil in Iran has been somewhat of a curse, as other countries want our oil and try to control our politicians as a result. That makes having a history of democracy very hard.

Thats for sure. But I'm talking about a much longer democratic history. Democracy isn't a process that can be achieved in such short time and certainly not in a turmoil region like the Middle-East. I think the only countries who have achieved that in such short time are Japan and South Korea. Take the Japanese for example: America have thrown 2 atomic bombs on the country, but nevertheless they have put their anti-west feelings aside and embraced certain western elements. Compare that to Iranians who are still mocking about the 1953 coup and the US support for the Shah.

We should stop blaming everybody and look at ourselves.

 

[Pakistanisage]

Democracy is not a PANACEA for every nation. There are countries where democracy simply won't work. for democracy to truly take root and flourish, a nation must have a 95% or better literacy rate. Otherwise it is just a vote bank waiting for the highest bidder to make the offer. Pakistan is a prime case in point. This is why most knowledgable Pakistanis would prefer a benign dictatorship over sham democracy anytime.

 

[Shahin Vatani]

Thats for sure. But I'm talking about a much longer democratic history. Democracy isn't a process that can be achieved in such short time and certainly not in a turmoil region like the Middle-East. I think the only countries who have achieved that in such short time are Japan and South Korea. Take the Japanese for example: America have thrown 2 atomic bombs on the country, but nevertheless they have put their anti-west feelings aside and embraced certain western elements. Compare that to Iranians who are still mocking about the 1953 coup and the US support for the Shah.

We are a revengeful people... As the Jews say, never forget

Democracy is not a PANACEA for every nation. There are countries where democracy simply won't work. for democracy to truly take root and flourish, a nation must have a 95% or better literacy rate. Otherwise it is just a vote bank waiting for the highest bidder to make the offer. Pakistan is a prime case in point. This is why most knowledgable Pakistanis would prefer a benign dictatorship over sham democracy anytime.

Ours is coming quite close to that, I believe it is over 85% now.

 

[Surenas]

We are a revengeful people... As the Jews say, never forget

We will nothing achieve if we keep walking around with so much hatred.

 

[gambit]

Read what I posted again, I said PROPER party. I know you have a lot of rinky dink BS parties that nobody gives a sh*t about...

What the hell is a 'proper' party? What make you think the CPUSA is not a 'proper' party? It was in the Soviets, China and many other. Is there such a thing as the Communist Party of Iran? Be careful before answering.

Under 'First Past The Post' (FPTP) system, say we have 100 available votes and say the Communist won 51 votes, the Republican got 19, and the Democrat got 20. The rest of the people did not vote. With FPTP, the Communist would be elected to represent all 100 votes.

Under 'Proportional Representation' with a threshold of 20%, the Communist and the Democrat would be elected into government but not the Republican. That 20% is by law saying that the people in the past felt that 20% is sufficient dissent by a political view that this group should and must be represented in government. If on the next election cycle, the Communist got 40 votes, the Republican got 30, the Democrat got 20 and the rest of the people stayed home, ALL three would be elected into government because all three have breached that 20% threshold.

Those are the very basics of FPTP and PR in basic PolSci. So when you said this...

Open up to atleast a three party system, bring in either a true left wing party or a libertarian one that counts...

...It mean you did not know what FPTP and PR conceptually are and how they are applied over the world in various forms and degrees of democratic practices. Do not bullsh1t me. Most people are surprised that after they mindlessly criticize US for not being 'democratic' enough and they equally mindlessly praised the Europeans about being more 'democratic' than the US, they learned to their sorrow that the Swiss do not elect their President...

Swiss Federal Council - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

By convention, the positions of President and Vice President rotate annually, each Councillor thus becoming Vice President and then President every seven years while in office.

So no, you do not know any more than this American despite throwing up that race card.

You should now you are speaking to a highly smart race of people that will continue to clown your ignorance on this website...

So how does it feel to be pwned by an American on basic PolSci?

 

[Juice]

Yes, heres a better alternative

Was born in Germany, and lived there 9 years off and on. Used to live next to a Mercedes factory (made ambulances, trash trucks..etc.) The main difference was the signs were in German instead of English. What is your point...the Germans want to be ruled by Mullahs?

 

[Shahin Vatani]

Was born in Germany, and lived there 9 years off and on. Used to live next to a Mercedes factory (made ambulances, trash trucks..etc.) The main difference was the signs were in German instead of English. What is your point...the Germans want to be ruled by Mullahs?

You are reading too much into the picture... All it says is that I prefer SLS AMG to Rolls Royce.

However Germany as a country is much better then America, at least thats my personal opinion.

PS What is it with American obsession with Mullahs? You have nightmares of our Mullahs? Lol you afraid they gonna kick your @ss? Because whenever you have nothing intelligent to say all you can do is scream MULLAHHH!!!!

 

[gambit]

You are reading too much into the picture... All it says is that I prefer SLS AMG to Rolls Royce.

However Germany as a country is much better then America, at least thats my personal opinion.

PS What is it with American obsession with Mullahs? You have nightmares of our Mullahs? Lol you afraid they gonna kick your @ss? Because whenever you have nothing intelligent to say all you can do is scream MULLAHHH!!!!

When I gave the question about the Rolls, it was meant to be something better than the CLASS that the Rolls and the Merc belongs in. Get it? Both brands are luxury brands with variations that make no judgments but only opinions. So if you like Germany better than the US, that only mean you like some mechanisms of politics and some aspects of the German society more than the US, but that does not mean the US is somehow 'less democratic' than Germany.

Between the secular Germans and the mullahs, we will take living in Germany any day and so would a lot of Iranians.

 

[Shahin Vatani]

When I gave the question about the Rolls, it was meant to be something better than the CLASS that the Rolls and the Merc belongs in. Get it? Both brands are luxury brands with variations that make no judgments but only opinions. So if you like Germany better than the US, that only mean you like some mechanisms of politics and some aspects of the German society more than the US, but that does not mean the US is somehow 'less democratic' than Germany.

Between the secular Germans and the mullahs, we will take living in Germany any day and so would a lot of Iranians.

Lol you must enjoy talking down to people. American mentality shows itself again. You trying to give me lessons that either I already know, or are pointless and stupid.

Congrats

Please continue...