Why Pakistan Airforce needs to make its own medium weight fighter

[Salman876]

Most of the points associated with range arent a problem as your combat area with India is very close and limited. So you can always compromise with range for payload.

You are right, And PAF will be defending force, not attacking.

 

[khanmubashir]

Why does Pakistan need more medium weight fighters :
1) Paf is outnumbered by modern 4th gen medium weight fighters in IAF inventory

2 ) JF 17 is an excellent Light weight aircraft but lacks range and payload capabilities which indian medium weight fighters have .

3 ) JF 17 cannot take the role of Mirage due to payload limitations .

4) JF 17 cannot carry more than 2 BVRAAMS without limiting range .

5) JF 17 cannot act as an EW aircraft like EA 18 due to payload limitations.

6) F 16s are limited only 75

7) F 16s are limited to AIM 120 c5 I doubt we will even get c7s

8) Aircraft which can carry more payload than JF 17 and can stay in air longer is desperately needed.

9) We don't have money so can't buy from anyone

10 ) We need an aircraft to deal with Rafael

11) 5th gen aircraft (project azm) even if we make it by 2035 we cannot keep them in large numbers due to cost and maintenance even USAF cannot purchase more than 200 Raptors .

12 ) 4th gen aircraft are going no where US will use F 15 EX with 5th gen fighter aircraft beyond 2070s.
So importance of medium weight fighters cannot be ruled out.

13 ) We need a stop gap fighter till Azm matures .


What path should PAF take :
1) Thunder was a success follow the same path . A joint venture with China or Turkey seems to be the ideal choice.

2) That way we can take the engine from Russia through China maybe RD 33

3) We can use our own AESA radar
4) Integrate Chinese, Turkish and Pakistani weapons

5) That way it can have Chinese Turkish and Pakistani tech on it .

6) Follow the Block building approach that way we can keep the aircraft relevant.

7) Thunder didn't cost a large amount if it is a JV we can keep the cost down.
8) development time should be 5 to 6 years and with help of our Chinese and Turkish brothers we can have our very own Rafael in 5 to 6 years.


Benefits of our own Medium weight fighter :
1) It will be cost effective like the Thunder

2) It will have both western and eastern tech

3) It will be able to carry more
BVRAAMS just 4 will be fine

4) It will be able to act like an EW bird like EA 18

5) 9 to 12 billion usd saved for purchasing 36 stop gap fighters to counter Rafael.

6) It can have our own weapons like indigenous BVRAAM.

7) No strings attached.

8) No more begging to USA for F16s

9) While Indians keep giving money to France and US and getting milked.

10 ) We can use it and integrate any weapon we want .

11) That combined with jf 17 block 3 will give nightmares to hinduvata goons till Azm arrives and matures.

12 ) It will keep Kamra busy and we will get more experience in designing and developing fighter aircraft.

13) Who knows if Turkey inducts the aircraft too because they get blackmailed by US they too can have a good platform t which does not have strings attached.

14) It can be the platform on which we can test Azms tech.

15) All Pakistanis need is vision which we sadly lack. We need to get out of slave mentality that we cannot make anything good . We have to start somewhere right?



Sorry for any mistakes this is my first post please be forgiving .
I have a lot to learn so I can be wrong too forgive me for any mistakes.
Have a nice day.

if we take example of sweden a small nation that buildsups its defenses in response to giant russia they r depending on light wt category gripens successive variants come with improved avionics and weapons but still are lca
if feasible we should evolve jf17 into mca
afterall original f16 was also lca latter evolved into mca
the best way to do that is to use jf17 or mca based on it as testbed for azm tech

that would both accelerate azm development and via comanality of systems and parts will reduce cost of both 4g mca and upcoming azm 5g craft

F16 was light weight, but it is now medium weight. With more powerful engine, JF-17 will overcome its deficiencies.

but we would have to enlarge & strengthen the plane body itself to accomodate the more powerful engine and extra fuel needed as was done with f16

 

[Lincoln]

Yes sir we do lack a good aviation industry but how did we make Thunder? Why not follow the same approach for a MWF it will solve the old mirage problem. I'm sure China and Turkey would help too we can't bet everything on Azm. 5th gen aircraft are difficult to make and use. Too expensive a stop gap is needed instead of purchasing new aircraft why not go for a JV


So with WS 13 a light weight fighter becomes a medium weight fighter? Can you explain a little please ?

Do you realize how long the JF-17 development took place? Do we want to push back Azm development.

 

[Fighting Falcon 01]

Do you realize how long the JF-17 development took place? Do we want to push back Azm development.

Azm is much more complex than a 4th gen fighter we should go for a 4th gen only If there is a delay in project Azm which is not going to happen. Azm will surely give us the edge on IAF . paf is prioritizing Azm 4th gen project is only possible if we have time and money which we don't have so Azm is the priority .

 

[Muhammad Omar]

Here's the Answer Replace Mirage fleet with this

 

[MastanKhan]

It means jf-17 has the potentials to have different engine without a lot of work.

Hi,

That is why the design was known as a modular design---.

Again---the Paf needs a 25% larger JF17---which can accomodate nose mounted IRST---a larger Aesa---a gcas system---ability to carry a 1000 kg AShM's or ALCM's---on each wing.

This should have been the target goal for the BLK3---. The BLK 3 should have taken all these things into consideration---but Paf hierarchy being extremely conservative and instead of moving ahead---stayed at the same place---thus moving a step back.

 

[Old School]

What went wrong that we don't have access to latest western military hardwares? We need some serious introspection. Only a handful of world powers have their own developed operational military jets and even very few among those are of proven good quality.

 

[MastanKhan]

What went wrong that we don't have access to latest western military hardwares? We need some serious introspection. Only a handful of world powers have their own developed operational military jets and even very few among those are of proven good quality.

Hi,

What happened is that for the last two regimes---the Zardari and Nawaz---we intentionally let the indians bash pakistan and refused to stand up for pakistan---.

Eve the commander in chief Gen Kiyani of pakistan and the ISI chief Gen Pasha of pakistan---both sabotaged the integrity of pakistan after OBL incidence---by staying quiet---.

0 years of pakistan bashing went un-answered---.

 

[Old School]

Hi,

What happened is that for the last two regimes---the Zardari and Nawaz---we intentionally let the indians bash pakistan and refused to stand up for pakistan---.

Eve the commander in chief Gen Kiyani of pakistan and the ISI chief Gen Pasha of pakistan---both sabotaged the integrity of pakistan after OBL incidence---by staying quiet---.

0 years of pakistan bashing went un-answered---.

Well, Zardaris's rise to become the Sadr was clearly engineered by the deep state. Nawaz was also an engineered puppet who never had any grassroots political background.
OBL affair was actually a US entrapment for the Musharraf which he also failed to manage .
We never had an organic political brain since Liaquat Ali Khan. The rests which followed have been only test tube babies by artificial means.

 

[MastanKhan]

Well, Zardaris's rise to become the Sadr was clearly engineered by the deep state. Nawaz was also an engineered puppet who never had any grassroots political background.
OBL affair was actually a US entrapment for the Musharraf which he also failed to manage .
We never had an organic political brain since Liaquat Ali Khan. The rests which followed have been only test tube babies by artificial means.

Hi,

It was Gen Kiyanis job to catch the entrapment of Musharraf---. But Gen Kiyani was the setup guy himself---.

Liaquat Ali Khan was the original enemy when he pis-sed off america with his reply to the USA regarding influencing iran's elected prime minister regarding oil---.

His reply to the US was brisk and insulting---in those days---you could not talk to the super power and live to tell about it later---.

That arrogant part of Liaquat Ali snubbed the US reply---instead of saying " I will try to help you the best as I can with in my limits---he snapped back at the US by saying---" we don't interfere in other countries affairs---"---.

The " Pakistani Arrogance " made him pay with his life---.

 

[Old School]

Hi,

It was Gen Kiyanis job to catch the entrapment of Musharraf---. But Gen Kiyani was the setup guy himself---.

Liaquat Ali Khan was the original enemy when he pis-sed off america with his reply to the USA regarding influencing iran's elected prime minister regarding oil---.

His reply to the US was brisk and insulting---in those days---you could not talk to the super power and live to tell about it later---.

That arrogant fool Liaquat Ali snubbed the US reply---instead of saying " I will try to help you the best as I can with in my limits---he snapped back at the US by saying---" we don't interfere in other countries affairs---"---.

The " Pakistani Arrogance " made him pay with his life---.

Well, our leaders are still not trying to rectify past mistakes. Is it learning disabilities at the macro level or something else ?

 

[MastanKhan]

Well, our leaders are still not trying to rectify past mistakes. Is it learning disabilities at the macro level or something else ?

Hi,

That is one item---and the second is not knowing how to talk to the americans and how to say it---.

 

[Old School]

Hi,

That is one item---and the second is not knowing how to talk to the americans and how to say it---.

Of course, assuming one's counterparts to be 'blind' during negotiations is a wrong approach.

 

[Signalian]

Pakistan needs more transport aircraft and transport helicopters as well as drones for all types of Ops (peace and war).

 

[Silverblaze]

PAF's doctrine dictates their choices. Deterrence by denial.

Please remember one thing, in war situation the number of aircrafts and speed of mobilization (or scrambling) and quick replacement is vital.

In this context PAF wants JFT. It seems PAF wants to have 300 plus JFTs.
Nobody will disagree with you on your points. But its the doctrine and financial constraints.

I belong to the camp which still believes that j-10b and c should be in PAF. Pakistan should have been its first customer. As I believe its a true multirole jet which fulfill lightweight and heavyweight requirements. Plus, since the PLAAF is using it, it will continue to improve and on a priority basis. 500 are with them.