Why is it so easy to "Hurt the feelings of the Chinese people"? Are they really that Sensitive?

[KungFuLee]

You are not making sense, and you know it.

It is a "black or white" issue if these Chinese are breaking the property law. If they are, stop them from becoming legal owner of the property. What's the fuss?

So, during 1 child policy, if parent want to have 2 child and can pay the fine to have them, how do you rectify the problem? You killed the second child once it is born? Nope...You let them keep the second child and fine them. But does that mean having a second child is legal in China during that period? That is the same thing here.

Once a person bought a house, you cannot "unbuy" them, I mean, how? You ask the seller to pay back the money and pretend everything did not happen? How do you do that? Especially if the case is revealed several year or even decade after the transaction is done. How do you rectify the problem?

The law itself is to stop (or rather, try to stop) them from becoming legal owner, the things is, Chinese ignore this law, because they can afford the fine. And by the look of it, you are okay with that.

 

[Dungeness]

Nah China is a rich country, the greatest country in the world, so you don;t need to be living in the West that you hate so much simple.

Why do your elites hold 2 or 3 passports? Why do they have anchor babies?

Just go back to your wonderful CCP and live happily there.

Again, none of your business. You are getting too personal, and that's sign of a loser.

So, during 1 child policy, if parent want to have 2 child and can pay the fine to have them, how do you rectify the problem? You killed the second child once it is born? Nope...You let them keep the second child and fine them. But does that mean having a second child is legal in China during that period? That is the same thing here.

Once a person bought a house, you cannot "unbuy" them, I mean, how? You ask the seller to pay back the money and pretend everything did not happen? How do you do that? Especially if the case is revealed several year or even decade after the transaction is done. How do you rectify the problem?

The law itself is to stop (or rather, try to stop) them from becoming legal owner, the things is, Chinese ignore this law, because they can afford the fine. And by the look of it, you are okay with that.

If those Chinese can get away with a fine, they are still in the legal framework. So if you have problem them, you either have to change the existing law, or you have to live with it.

What exactly you have problem with?

 

[Vanguard One]

Again, none of your business. You are getting too personal, and that's sign of a loser.



If those Chinese can get away with a fine, they are still in the legal framework. So if you have problem them, you either have to change the existing law, or you have to live with it.

What part you have problem with?

How am I getting personal? Have I abused you, or called you names? Have i personally attacked you?

I just asked you why are you living the USA the west that you hate so much? Why don't you go back to the CCP and live there happily?

 

[Dungeness]

How am I getting personal? Have I abused you, or called you names? Have i personally attacked you?

I just asked you why are you living the USA the est that you hate so much? Why don't you go back to the CCP and live there happily?

You are repeating yourself over and over. You are not a worthy opponent. Done.

 

[Vanguard One]

You are repeating yourself over and over. You are not a worthy opponent. Done.

This is the typical way the paid trolls act, lol.

Just answer the questions and I will leave you alone.

 

[KungFuLee]

If those Chinese can get away with a fine, they are still in the legal framework. So if you have problem them, you either have to change the existing law, or you have to live with it.

What exactly you have problem with?

Again, you can pay the fine for speeding, does that mean speeding is still in the legal framework?

You, along with hundred of thousand of Chinese have a different concept of "Breaking the law" and this is where I have problem with. Just because you can pay the fine, does not mean what you are doing is legal, is it really that hard to understand?

 

[Vanguard One]

Again, you can pay the fine for speeding, does that mean speeding is still in the legal framework?

You, along with hundred of thousand of Chinese have a different concept of "Breaking the law" and this is where I have problem with. Just because you can pay the fine, does not mean what you are doing is legal, is it really that hard to understand?

You should see the way Chinese tourist act in Australia, try to bring in their shitty food through customs etc.

 

[Sheikh Rauf]

I know you are not the original person I quoted but all you did was move the goal post.

I was replying to "China minds it's own business"

I never said "The west minds it's own business"

so your comment to me is of not use or meaning.

what china is doing not minding its business is actually right thing to protect china if not then these western countries would not mind making china again full of drugs and countries like japan bomb chines cites for experiments.
i think Pakistan sud be doing the same thing.
Canadian gov wants people with money so it doesnt matter if its chines or african all they want is money. if this bothers they stop bringing chines students and investors.

 

[Dungeness]

Again, you can pay the fine for speeding, does that mean speeding is still in the legal framework?

You, along with hundred of thousand of Chinese have a different concept of "Breaking the law" and this is where I have problem with. Just because you can pay the fine, does not mean what you are doing is legal, is it really that hard to understand?

I am not making excuse for those Chinese that I have no idea about. There are ways to stop illegal ownership in the process of property transitions, unlike speeding.

My guess is you are having problem with the fact that those Chinese are jacking up the property price. If so you should live in a socialist country where poor are being taken care of by the government. In a free market society, you pay what it is worth, or what market demands.

 

[JSCh]

Did you bother to read my post in whole?

So it is not "Breaking the law" or "It's Legal" if you can afford the fine? What kind of logic is this?

So yes, as per my previous example, Speeding is legal as long as you pay the fine, is it correct?

This is not a loophole, it is a law, you break the law, hence it's illegal, Do you even know what illegal means?

I said it is not "legally a fraud" which you have claimed in previous post, all the other stuff like "breaking the law" and "it is legal" is all your twisting the word, I did not made those claim.

So now I check, from How to invest in property as a non-resident | finder.com.au

Foreign investment regulation changes
Unlike some other countries that place few or no restrictions on foreign buyers, Australia has always taken a regulatory approach to overseas property investors. In December 2015, following growing concern that Chinese buyers were driving values up and pricing first home buyers out of the property market, the Australian Government introduced new laws to make it tougher for overseas investors to purchase Australian property.

Under the new laws, non-resident buyers can only purchase new properties, not established ones. Non-residents who purchase property in Australia without first seeking approval from the Foreign Investment Review Board (FIRB) also face fines of up to $135,000, three years’ imprisonment or both. Companies breaching these rules can be fined up to $675,000, while buyers’ agents and real estate agents who help foreign buyers violate these rules also face stiff penalties.​

It seem that you FORGOT to mention the imprisonment term. Coming from you, I am not surprise.

ATO hunts down foreign buyers of residential property breaking the law | SMH

By Nassim Khadem
May 8, 2015 — 5.36pm

EXCLUSIVE

Up to 150 cases of potential breaches of the property buying laws by foreigners are under investigation as the Australian Tax Office launches a data-matching campaign that will trawl 30,000 taxpayer's records.

Parliamentary Secretary to the Treasurer, Kelly O'Dwyer, said that the ATO's investigation could lead to audits and criminal prosecution.

Those that were not criminal and were "inadvertent breaches" could make a claim under an amnesty that runs until November 30, just before the Abbott government's new tougher laws on foreign buyers – including three-year jail terms and fines of as much as $127,500 for individuals and $637,500 for companies – take effect.

....
​

I wonder what the "inadvertent breaches" refer to.

The ATO has forced 300 foreign buyers to sell their Australian property | Business Insider

SAM JACOBS
DEC 10, 2018, 10:44 AM​

• • More than 300 foreign buyers who were in breach of ownership rules have been forced to sell their Australian properties, the government said.
  • In the 2017/18 financial year, the majority of forced sales took place in Melbourne, where the average price of each transaction was $1.13 million.
  • The crackdown on foreign buyers has picked up pace since the government granted new powers to the tax office in 2015.
• 
  
• ....

The Australian gov't put up those law in 2015, they would be pretty incompetent if they still cannot stop the illegal property buying.

It seem to me that if you don't like non-resident to buy property, just check before purchase, and stop the purchase if someone cannot prove that. Even an idiot would figure that one out. If you let the purchase go through, and then fine and punish them afterward, something don't smell right here.

Anyway it is Australia business, I am sure the Australian gov't is capable of running Australia.

 

[KungFuLee]

I said it is not "legally a fraud" which you have claimed in previous post, all the other stuff like "breaking the law" and "it is legal" is all your twisting the word, I did not made those claim.

So now I check, from How to invest in property as a non-resident | finder.com.au

Foreign investment regulation changes
Unlike some other countries that place few or no restrictions on foreign buyers, Australia has always taken a regulatory approach to overseas property investors. In December 2015, following growing concern that Chinese buyers were driving values up and pricing first home buyers out of the property market, the Australian Government introduced new laws to make it tougher for overseas investors to purchase Australian property.

Under the new laws, non-resident buyers can only purchase new properties, not established ones. Non-residents who purchase property in Australia without first seeking approval from the Foreign Investment Review Board (FIRB) also face fines of up to $135,000, three years’ imprisonment or both. Companies breaching these rules can be fined up to $675,000, while buyers’ agents and real estate agents who help foreign buyers violate these rules also face stiff penalties.​

It seem that you FORGOT to mention the imprisonment term. Coming from you, I am not surprise.

ATO hunts down foreign buyers of residential property breaking the law | SMH

By Nassim Khadem
May 8, 2015 — 5.36pm

EXCLUSIVE

Up to 150 cases of potential breaches of the property buying laws by foreigners are under investigation as the Australian Tax Office launches a data-matching campaign that will trawl 30,000 taxpayer's records.

Parliamentary Secretary to the Treasurer, Kelly O'Dwyer, said that the ATO's investigation could lead to audits and criminal prosecution.

Those that were not criminal and were "inadvertent breaches" could make a claim under an amnesty that runs until November 30, just before the Abbott government's new tougher laws on foreign buyers – including three-year jail terms and fines of as much as $127,500 for individuals and $637,500 for companies – take effect.

....
​

I wonder what the "inadvertent breaches" refer to.

The ATO has forced 300 foreign buyers to sell their Australian property | Business Insider

SAM JACOBS
DEC 10, 2018, 10:44 AM​

• • More than 300 foreign buyers who were in breach of ownership rules have been forced to sell their Australian properties, the government said.
  • In the 2017/18 financial year, the majority of forced sales took place in Melbourne, where the average price of each transaction was $1.13 million.
  • The crackdown on foreign buyers has picked up pace since the government granted new powers to the tax office in 2015.
• 
  
• ....

The Australian gov't put up those law in 2015, they would be pretty incompetent if they still cannot stop the illegal property buying.

It seem to me that if you don't like non-resident to buy property, just check before purchase, and stop the purchase if someone cannot prove that. Even an idiot would figure that one out. If you let the purchase go through, and then fine and punish them afterward, something don't smell right here.

Anyway it is Australia business, I am sure the Australian gov't is capable of running Australia.

First of all, I did not say all Chinese purchase are "Fraud" there are some case where there is defrauding involved (which you actually quote the link to, where that 300 owner was forced to sell the house) when a Chinese owner buy a house using a Australian resident shill, which fraud will be committed then.

Second of all, how do you check if someone is a resident? Unlike in China, you are not require to bring your passport everywhere, and there are no form of national ID to indicate that you are a resident, you don't even need a physical visa to come to Australia. There are no document to show you are a resident in Australia, and there are no way you can ring up Department of Immigration and ask if that person is a legal resident. So how do you suppose the seller know who live in Australia and who is not?

It is not about incompetence of Australian government, I mean that is another topic, what Australia do or not do is their business, what I say here is the problem that Chinese buyer ignore and disrespect the law in place and buy properties in Australia regardless. Just because Australia did not heavily punish people who break this particular law does not give the right to anyone to break it. And from the looks of it, you still think that's okay, and if you do, that is the problem I am talking about.

I am not making excuse for those Chinese that I have no idea about. There are ways to stop illegal ownership in the process of property transitions, unlike speeding.

My guess is you are having problem with the fact that those Chinese are jacking up the property price. If so you should live in a socialist country where poor are being taken care of by the government. In a free market society, you pay what it is worth, or what market demands.

Actually, I don't have a problem Chinese is jacking the price of land in Australia, I am not a permanent resident, I am not planning to stay in Australia after I graduate from my MA program which is the end of this year, in fact, the Chinese jack up the price work well for me, because it decrease the price for renting. I have problem with people don't follow the rules and break the law.

And as per our previous conversation, what do you suggest to stop the illegal ownership? Put this to a CAN crime then arrest and jail everyone that break this law?

 

[Rusty]

what china is doing not minding its business is actually right thing to protect china if not then these western countries would not mind making china again full of drugs and countries like japan bomb chines cites for experiments.
i think Pakistan sud be doing the same thing.
Canadian gov wants people with money so it doesnt matter if its chines or african all they want is money. if this bothers they stop bringing chines students and investors.

That was not the point tho.
The point is that China want's to play the game of international influence, but then starts to cry like a baby when people fight back.

Look on PDF how many people cruse the US and other countries that play the game of international influence.
I have never ever seen an American here cry "but but but you are hurting my feelings"

Chinese on the other hand want to play this game but they don't want anyone to call them out on it.
I have literally seen Chinese posters here say something to the order of "you are hurting Chinese feelings"

Sorry bro, getting called out is part of the game and no amount of crying butt hurt is going to change it.

 

[JSCh]

First of all, I did not say all Chinese purchase is "Fraud" there are some case where there is Fraud involved (which you actually quote the link to, where that 300 owner was forced to sell the house) when a Chinese owner buy a house using a Australian resident shill, which fraud will be committed then.

Second of all, how do you check if someone is a resident? Unlike in China, you are not require to bring your passport everywhere, and there are no form of national ID to indicate that you are a resident, you don't even need a physical visa to come to Australia. There are no document to show you are a resident in Australia, and there are no way you can ring up Department of Immigration and ask if that person is a legal resident. So how do you suppose the seller know who live in Australia and who is not?

It is not about incompetence of Australian government, I mean that is another topic, what Australia do or not do is their business, what I say here is the problem that Chinese buyer ignore and disrespect the law in place and buy properties in Australia regardless. Just because Australia did not heavily punish people who break this particular law does not give the right to anyone to break it. And from the looks of it, you still think that's okay, and if you do, that is the problem I am talking about.



Actually, I don't have a problem Chinese is jacking the price of land in Australia, I am not a permanent resident, I am not planning to stay in Australia after I graduate from my MA program which is the end of this year, in fact, the Chinese jack up the price work well for me, because it decrease the price for renting. I have problem with people don't follow the rules and break the law.

And as per our previous conversation, what do you suggest to stop the illegal ownership? Put this to a CAN crime then arrest and jail everyone that break this law?

I find it really strange that there is no identification paper that show someone is legally a resident or not in Australia.

Google turn up the following :-

• https://immi.homeaffairs.gov.au/visas/permanent-resident/evidence-of-residency-status
• https://www.ato.gov.au/Individuals/...esidency/Certificates-of-residency-or-status/

 

[Sheikh Rauf]

That was not the point tho.
The point is that China want's to play the game of international influence, but then starts to cry like a baby when people fight back.

Look on PDF how many people cruse the US and other countries that play the game of international influence.
I have never ever seen an American here cry "but but but you are hurting my feelings"

Chinese on the other hand want to play this game but they don't want anyone to call them out on it.
I have literally seen Chinese posters here say something to the order of "you are hurting Chinese feelings"

Sorry bro, getting called out is part of the game and no amount of crying butt hurt is going to change it.

I think every country have different sentiment some take things lightly and some dont.
behavior of nation its a known fact that chines are more sensitive towards its country's image than american or anyone els.
They are our friends and its their right that dont get hurt atleast from people who call them friends and Pakistanies are reliable.

 

[Dungeness]

Actually, I don't have a problem Chinese is jacking the price of land in Australia, I am not a permanent resident, I am not planning to stay in Australia after I graduate from my MA program which is the end of this year, in fact, the Chinese jack up the price work well for me, because it decrease the price for renting. I have problem with people don't follow the rules and break the law.

And as per our previous conversation, what do you suggest to stop the illegal ownership? Put this to a CAN crime then arrest and jail everyone that break this law?

I am sure Australia government has a way to check if someone is an Australia resident or not. In the states, everyone has a Social Security Number; in China, everyone has a national ID. It would be a surprise to me if Australia Gov. has no way to check a home buyers's credential.

If there are loopholes in the legal system, don't blame on lawyers, blame on law makers.