Why India Occupied Siachen?

[Capt.Popeye]

I think you didn't understand my post. I didn't say that India should give up it's territory. India should reverse the aggression it committed in 1984. That's it.

India just went into territory that it considered to be its own and was able to occupy it. what agression? I can occupy my house, not have to agress into it.
About withdrawal, India has proposed some ground-rules so far GoP has not accepted them, which is fair enough.
While Siachen is inhumanly inhospitable territory, it also happens to be a glacier, which matters some-what apart from the significance of its location.

 

[Bhairava]

India just went into territory that it considered to be its own and was able to occupy it. what agression? I can occupy my house, not have to agress into it.
About withdrawal, India has proposed some ground-rules so far GoP has not accepted them, which is fair enough.
While Siachen is inhumanly inhospitable territory, it also happens to be a glacier, which matters some-what apart from the significance of its location.

Sirji I read somewhere the significance of Siachen is not in the glacier itself but because it secures the Karakoram Pass and hence a direct route to the Kashmir Valley.

Is there any truth in it ?

 

[Areesh]

No..Pakistan started the madness. Read up on why India decided to take Siachen in the first place.

And the most feasible way, agreeable to India, is to authenticate the AGPL so that once we come down , Pakistan does not occupy it. PA did it in Kargil and there is no guarentee they will not do it in Siachen.

The story that you give for initiating Siachen conflict is a BS. The fact is it is you who started it. And now onus is on you to end it.

Kargil was also because of Siachen as I said before. No Siachen No Kargil. We can engage Uncle Sam or United Nations if India doesn't trust Pakistan. The problem is not India's distrust of Pakistan but India's insincerity in ending this conflict.

India just went into territory that it considered to be its own and was able to occupy it. what agression? I can occupy my house, not have to agress into it.

Do you think such childish justifications would work in front of a Pakistani.

About withdrawal, India has proposed some ground-rules so far GoP has not accepted them, which is fair enough.
While Siachen is inhumanly inhospitable territory, it also happens to be a glacier, which matters some-what apart from the significance of its location.

Already answered a lot. Pre-1984 situation is the solution.

 

[Bhairava]

The story that you give for initiating Siachen conflict is a BS. The fact is it is you who started it. And now onus in on you to end it.

No its not BS. It is the truth.

PA wanted to occupy it..ordered mil grade winter wear from some London outfiteers, RAW got wind of it and the rest is history.

It takes two hands to clap. We have some ground rules in Siachen and Pakistan is so far not agreeing to it. If they agree to it demilitarization can happen.

Kargil was also because of Siachen as I said before. No Siachen No Kargil. We can engage Uncle Sam or United Nations if India doesn't trust Pakistan. The problem is not India's distrust of Pakistan but India's insincerity in ending this conflict..

Yeah right..Kargil was because of Siachen..When I thought things could not get any more ridiculous.

Pre-1984 situation is the solution.

Well obviously India doesnt consider that a solution. Solution is one that is agreeable to both parties.

What you said is the Pakistani "suggestion" and not "solution".

 

[Emmie]

Sirji I read somewhere the significance of Siachen is not in the glacier itself but because it secures the Karakoram Pass and hence a direct route to the Kashmir Valley.

Is there any truth in it ?

Secures from Pakistan? NO.

 

[Areesh]

No its not BS. It is the truth.

Rubbish.

PA wanted to occupy it..ordered mil grade winter wear from some London outfiteers, RAW got wind of it and the rest is history.

May be PA ordered outfitters from that company since it knew about India's nefarious plans of occupying Siachen. So they started preparations to defend but it was too late and Indians already occupied it. How is this twist of your drama story.

The fact is only sane reason behind India's aggression of Siachen in 1984 is that it was left unprotected. There were no troops or posts to defend it hence someone in Dehli find it a good opportunity to sooth his bravado.

As I said the reality is that it was you who invaded Siachen not us.

Yeah right..Kargil was because of Siachen..When I thought things could not get any more ridiculous.

I have been reading more ridiculous things on this thread from Bharatis. But again it is true.

It takes two hands to clap. We have some ground rules in Siachen and Pakistan is so far not agreeing to it. If they agree to it demilitarization can happen.

Pre-1984 situation. We can engage third party if you are sincere in ending this conflict.

 

[Bhairava]

Rubbish.

No its the truth.

May be PA ordered outfitters from that company since it knew about India's nefarious plans of occupying Siachen. So they started preparations to defend but it was too late and Indians already occupied it. How is this twist of your drama story.

Maybe you would be a real addition to the dying Lolywood..

The fact is only sane reason behind India's aggression of Siachen in 1984 is that it was left unprotected. There were no troops or posts to defend it hence someone in Dehli find it a good opportunity to sooth his bravado.

No it was the cartopgraphic aggression which showed Siachen as a part of Pakistan in mountaneering maps that left us no choice but to stamp our authority.

As I said the reality is that it was you who invaded Siachen not us.

BS.

Pre-1984 situation. We can engage third party if you are sincere in ending this conflict.

No pre-84 situation without authenticating the AGPL and No third party in bilateral disputes.

Basic Indian ground rules.

 

[Areesh]

No its the truth.

No it isn't.

Maybe you would be a real addition to the dying Lolywood..

No. Unlike Indian members I am not interested in all these "woods".

No it was the cartopgraphic aggression which showed Siachen as a part of Pakistan in mountaneering maps that left us no choice but to stamp our authority.

Pakistan also shows Baltoro Glacier as part of Pakistan in mountaineering maps. So what are you going to do about it. Nothing since it isn't left at the mercy of Indians to occupy it. My point behind India's aggression proved yet again.

BS.

Hilarious after failing to give a good story for your aggression you have started to deny that you actually committed aggression in the first place. Some interesting change.

No pre-84 situation without authenticating the AGPL and No third party in bilateral disputes.

Bold part. My point about India's insincerity proved. At least India's distrust on Pakistan isn't the hurdle in solving this issue as I said earlier.

 

[anoop]

wrong we don't have water. All rivers in Pakistan flow from Kashmir and you built dams to block all the water coming in to our side. In fact we have so little left that we are using groundwater.

again wrong dam are used for generating electricity and most of then run of dam and your own gov can`t do proper water mnmgt then what can indians do. tell who many canals,dams has any GoP has constructed in last 30-20 years

and yes this confirms my thinking paksitan donot want kashmir because they are muslims but because most of their life-line rivers run through india

 

[Kyusuibu Honbu]

Indian concerns

In a future conflict with India, control of the Siachen area might provide Pakistan with a route to capture the
city of Leh and the region of Ladakh with a flanking attack. The conventional wisdom of the time included scenarios in which China might join this attack

Pakistani maps also began to show the LOC heading in a straight line from NJ 9842 to the KKP, implying that territory north of the line was under Pakistan’s control.Indian suspicions were raised, and the government called this “cartographic aggression” on Pakistan’s part. Suspicions deepened when the Indian government learned that Pakistan had begun issuing permits to international mountaineering expeditions to enter the Siachen area. Indian reconnaissance patrols were sent into the glaciers and returned with reports of the sporadic presence of Pakistani military personnel. By early 1984, after intelligence reports indicated extensive Pakistani preparations to occupy the area, Prime Minister Indira Gandhi ordered the Indian army to occupy the Siachen Glacier to preempt its occupation by the Pakistan army in the summer of 1984.

Demilitarization of the Siachen Conflict Zone: Concepts for Implementation and Monitoring

 

[Bang Galore]

I don't know why India sacrificed it's people. Doesn't matter for us. I am just giving you the most feasible solution to you. You started this madness and hence the greater responsibility is on you to end it.

Enough with this whining ! If Pakistan acknowledges AGPL, then & only then will India withdraw. India holds those position & if Pakistan has no interest in the Siachen glacier, they should have no issues. Arguing that signing up to the AGPL would somehow legitimise Indian control is ridiculous because Pakistan has signed on to the LoC , does that mean India's control of Kashmir has legitimacy in Pakistani eyes?

 

[deckingraj]

Bold part. My point about India's insincerity proved. At least India's distrust on Pakistan isn't the hurdle in solving this issue as I said earlier.

What kind of twisted logic is this?? Our stand has always been that there is no scope for third party mediation...This has been there since the origin of Kashmir conflict...What has this stand anything to do with Siachen??? I am not against harping on the points taught to you(b/w we do the same so don't jump on it) but one can easily filter out some of the points that make no sense...Fair??


Now here is my take on Siachen. Unfortunately during Shimla agreement this part was left undecided...The way undecided doesn't mean it belongs to India in the same token it doesn't mean it belongs to Pakistan...Fair??

Now it is easy to say that India showed aggression but then the trigger point was the permission's given by Pakistan to expeditions taking place there...How on this earth you can give permissions for something that is not yours??? Once you start doing that the message was clear to Indian side...Either put your stamp on it or else loose th glacier by this cartopgraphic aggression....It is easy to put the blame on India(which happened to reach the glacier by a whisker earlier then you guys) but what is your take on the so called charge of cartopgraphic aggression from your side??? On what authority were you doing that??

Now as far as solution goes then use some logic there...The only possible solution is to accept the Indian positions and demilitaralize the glacier. Unfortunately for you that we reached there earlier and there is no way you can remove us from there...We have lost enough troops in maintaining our position there and no way we can let all that go waste...In this particular battle we are clear winners...Accept it and move on...Otherwise status quo is not hurting us and will carry on...Now you can cry a river on this but the fact is you would have done the same had you reached there earlier...period!!!!

Look the writing is on the wall...However our Pakistani friends are not ready to accept it...I can understand why but then what else is the solution?? We are not going to relent because clearly we are on the advantageous position..You have tried a lot - Direct Conflict/Proxy Fighting but to no avail...Anyhow there is not going to be solution for this issue till eternity so why waste time on it...

 

[Great Sachin]

Best bargain for Pakistan to accept current LOC...unless India"s basic aim to recapture the ***....

 

[v9s]

Vikram Sood, a former RAW chief:

“The Indian Army climbed to the Saltoro Ridge in 1984 to cut off Pakistan’s plans [sic] to access beyond Saltoro to the Karakoram Pass. This would have enabled Pakistan access to Tibet and also threaten Ladakh. Pakistan and China would have access to each other through the Khunjerab Pass on the Karakoram Highway via Xinjiang and to Tibet through the Karakoram Pass. The Saltoro Ridge provided Indian forces with strategic heights looking into… Gilgit and Baltistan. Such an advantage must not be given up for some obscure short-term political gain without a document to establish one’s credentials.”

Source: Pious wishes and ugly reality – The Express Tribune

 

[Areesh]

Enough with this whining ! If Pakistan acknowledges AGPL, then & only then will India withdraw. India holds those position & if Pakistan has no interest in the Siachen glacier, they should have no issues. Arguing that signing up to the AGPL would somehow legitimise Indian control is ridiculous because Pakistan has signed on to the LoC , does that mean India's control of Kashmir has legitimacy in Pakistani eyes?

What whining. Apparently it appears to be you whose suddenly replied in desperation.

Anyways this so called AGPL isn't acceptable to us since it would be equivalent to validating your aggression of 1984.

LOC was called LOC after Simla agreement where both the countries decided to respect this line even with considering each others part of Kashmir as disputed and occupied. Before it was UN cease fire line since 1947. While here is this line(AGPL) which came into existence in 1984 after India's invasion of Siachen. So in other words LOC had some weight being backed by UN unlike this supposed AGPL which would be a symbol of Indian aggression if accepted by Pakistan. And we won't accept it. Pre-1984 situation and if you don't trust Pakistan engage third party to resolve the issue. Enough said.