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Why China's New Aircraft Carrier Should Worry India

can someone explain to me why aircraft carriers aren't giant easy targets?? that won't be taken out within a week of a major war??

heck I'm sure a lot of Chinese on here have said U.S aircraft carriers are easy targets especially against the super weapon DF-21D??

you got thousands of sub-sonic and supersonic anti ship missiles
you got diesel electric submarines which are proclaimed to be black holes in the ocean
you got satellites which can track all war vessels including aircraft carriers

so tell me Chinese brothers how will China protect it's homegrown carriers??
I think we can look at US carrier fleets for a brief answer. We have Aegis Cruiser, Attack Subs, Missile boats etc to protect the super-carriers. I believe Chinese will do the same.

Lastly, Chinese weapons have started to look more and more US like from being more Soviet or Russian and I guess their strategy and tactics will follow the suite. Ofcourse there will be a unique Chinese spin on it in terms of few systems unique to Chinese tactics.

Also a lot depends upon where these are deployed. I can foresee quite a few of these carrier groups being deployed in Indian Ocean and Arabian Sea. It is us Indians who need to develop counters for these.
 
I think we can look at US carrier fleets for a brief answer. We have Aegis Cruiser, Attack Subs, Missile boats etc to protect the super-carriers. I believe Chinese will do the same.

Lastly, Chinese weapons have started to look more and more US like from being more Soviet or Russian and I guess their strategy and tactics will follow the suite. Ofcourse there will be a unique Chinese spin on it in terms of few systems unique to Chinese tactics.

Also a lot depends upon where these are deployed. I can foresee quite a few of these carrier groups being deployed in Indian Ocean and Arabian Sea. It is us Indians who need to develop counters for these.


I just find it funny China,Russia, and India are building missiles they claim that can kill a Nimitz in one hit, but then go on to build expensive aircraft carriers :dance3:

webcx-1-missile.jpg


Pakistan%2BAir%2BForce%2BJF-17%2Bfighter%2Bwith%2BCM-400AKG%2Bsupersonic%2Bground%2Bmissiles%2B1.jpg


3M-54E1.jpg


bl12_hyssm_BrahMos__835915g.jpg
 
I just find it funny China,Russia, and India are building missiles they claim that can kill a Nimitz in one hit, but then go on to build expensive aircraft carriers :dance3:
Well, think it in this way, having mutual vulnerabilities can be sometimes stabilizing. You don't shoot flake on our elephant and we will let your rhino graze peacefully.
 
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After commissioning its first aircraft carrier, a refitted Soviet-era vessel called the Liaoning, in 2012, the People’s Liberation Army Navy (PLAN) launched its second aircraft carrier, the Shandong or CV-001A, this week. This first 70,000 tonne indigenously-produced aircraft carrier of China is likely to be operational by 2020. This is widely viewed as a major step for the PLAN as it underscores China’s efforts towards indigenous design and construction of aircraft carriers.

If the present trends continue, the PLAN is on its way to emerging as the world’s second largest navy by 2020.
The new carrier is part of an ambitious expansion of the Chinese navy, which, according to some estimates, is projected to have a total of 265-273 warships, submarines and logistics vessels by 2020. That compares with 275 deployable battle force ships presently in the US Navy, which also operates 10 aircraft carriers, has 62 destroyers to China’s 32, and 75 submarines to China’s 68.


thequint%2F2017-04%2F7145e3b5-6dbb-4acf-95ab-d2ec10ed4487%2Fwarships1.jpg

(Graphic: Rhythum Seth/The Quint)

Snapshot
Click here to collapse
  • China’s first 70,000-tonne indigenously-produced aircraft carrier is likely to be operational by 2020.
  • If the present trends continue, the PLAN is on its way to emerging as the world’s second-largest navy by 2020.
  • Chinese President Xi Jinping has launched defence reforms which are taking away resources from land to air and naval power.
  • Most western and regional observers continued to discount the possibility of China emerging as a serious naval power.
  • Aircraft carriers are symbols of power, a signal that PLAN has arrived as a force to be reckoned with.
  • PLAN’s growing lethality should be a serious worry for India.
  • The Indian Navy too is working on its carrier battle groups but delays and shoddy planning continue to mar Indian aspirations.

China’s Emergence as a Serious Naval Power
As a rising power, China’s military advancement is to be expected. Beijing wants to project power far beyond its shores, so a blue water navy is a prerequisite for Chinese ambitions. It is entangled in maritime disputes all around its periphery from the East to South China Sea. Chinese naval presence is growing in the Indian Ocean and the larger Pacific.

Chinese President, Xi Jinping, has launched defence reforms which are taking away resources from land to air and naval power. And the Chinese defence ministry has been articulating the need for PLAN to gradually shift its focus from “offshore waters defence” to “open-seas protection.” Though PLAN still remains no match to the American Navy with its 10 carriers , it is posing a real challenge to regional powers.

For far too long, most western and regional observers continued to discount the possibility of China emerging as a serious naval power.
China’s interests do not need PLAN to invest in aircraft carriers, they suggested. But Chinese interests turned out to be much the same as other maritime powers. In a short span, China will have two operational carriers with many more being planned.

Chinese experts openly point out the need for at least three aircraft carriers operating in each East and South China Sea. PLAN is ramping up the construction of nuclear powered submarines, very significant for the short- to medium-term priorities of China. China does lack trained manpower to build its submarines, cruisers, destroyers, frigates, amphibious ships, replenishment ships and light craft. But that too is being rectified with single-minded purpose.

China is constructing its first overseas military base in Djibouti ostensibly to provide rest and rehabilitation for the Chinese troops taking part in escort missions in the Gulf of Aden and waters off Somalia. But its real purpose is to project Chinese naval power in the Horn of Africa. There is also the Gwadar port closer to India.
Aircraft carriers are symbols of power, a signal that PLAN has arrived as a force to be reckoned with. While directly taking on the US is still some way off, the focus will likely be on its immediate periphery. In South China Sea, for example, a carrier’s entry can have a major impact on regional deterrence. For regional powers, therefore, some serious challenges have emerged. Much as the PLAN has tried to counter the superiority of the US Navy by focusing on anti-ship capabilities, especially submarines and anti-ship missiles, other regional powers will also have to think along similar lines to manage China’s growing naval prowess.


PLAN’s Plan Should Worry India
Given the challenge that China poses to Indian interests, PLAN’s growing lethality should be a serious worry for India. The Indian Navy too is working on its carrier battle groups but delays and shoddy planning continue to mar Indian aspirations.

India’s first indigenous aircraft carrier, the 40,000-tonne INS Vikrant was launched in 2013 but its commissioning has been delayed to 2020. And it will be another decade before the second indigenous carrier, the 65,000-tonne INS Vishal, will be up and running. As a result, the 44,570-tonne INS Vikramaditya will be the only one for India for the next few years.
Chinese official media took a swipe at Indian efforts recently when it argued that “New Delhi is perhaps too impatient to develop an aircraft carrier. The country is still in its initial stage of industrialisation, and there will be many technical obstacles that stand in the way of a build-up of aircraft carriers.”

“New Delhi should perhaps be less eager to speed up the process of building aircraft carriers in order to counter China’s growing sway in the Indian Ocean, and focus more on its economy,” it said.
The larger question that the Indian Navy needs to ask is whether it should really prioritise aircraft carriers over its other requirements. India, like China, wants to be a blue water navy and assert its primacy in the Indian Ocean. But the short- to medium-term challenge emerging from China’s potent rise means that India needs to find ways to mitigate that threat with some urgency. Waiting for a decade to get a carrier battle group up and running is perhaps not the most sensible of options.


(Harsh V Pant is Distinguished Fellow and Head of Strategic Studies at Observer Research Foundation, New Delhi. This is an opinion piece and the views expressed above are the author’s own. The Quint neither endorses nor is responsible for the same. )

https://www.thequint.com/opinion/2017/04/28/china-growing-navy-plan-should-worry-india
 
can someone explain to me why aircraft carriers aren't giant easy targets?? that won't be taken out within a week of a major war??

heck I'm sure a lot of Chinese on here have said U.S aircraft carriers are easy targets especially against the super weapon DF-21D??

you got thousands of sub-sonic and supersonic anti ship missiles
you got diesel electric submarines which are proclaimed to be black holes in the ocean
you got satellites which can track all war vessels including aircraft carriers

so tell me Chinese brothers how will China protect it's homegrown carriers??
simple. learn from Americans on how they protect their aircraft carriers and work towards that.
 
By
Mihir Sharma


The launch of China’s second aircraft carrier, expected as soon as this week, will be an important and depressing moment for India. The “Type 001A” -- likely to be named the “Shandong” -- will give China an edge for the first time in the carrier race with its Asian rival, a literal two-to-one advantage. After decommissioning the INS Viraat earlier this year, the Indian Navy is down to a single carrier, INS Vikramaditya. Worse, the Shandong has been built at China’s own giant shipyard at Dalian; Vikramaditya is merely a repurposed 1980s-era Russian carrier formerly known as the Admiral Gorshkov.

Even more telling than the raw numbers is what China’s progress says about India’s ability to provide security in its own backyard. Chinese naval strategists have open designs on the Indian Ocean: According to one, “China needs two carrier strike groups in the West Pacific Ocean and two in the Indian Ocean.” The government of Prime Minister Narendra Modi has talked a great deal about revitalizing the Indian military; it’s opened the defense sector up to greater foreign investment and is building a much-closer relationship with the U.S. military, largely with China in mind. But spending has lagged. Worse, successive governments simply don’t seem to have thought through where best to direct those scarce resources.

For its part, the Indian Navy has gone all-in on a strategy that emphasizes carrier battle groups. The idea is that India must dominate the ocean that bears its name and needs carriers in order to project power well beyond its shores. As a result, it wasted far too much time and treasure on the Admiral Gorshkov, which arrived from Russia six years late and at three times the cost that had initially been promised.

Its efforts to develop a homegrown carrier have been even more misbegotten. The Navy plans to name, commission and float the INS Vikrant next year. At that point, the ship reportedly won’t have its aviation complex in place, or even anti-aircraft missiles. The Navy has puzzlingly refused to buy India’s indigenous light fighter, the Tejas, saying it’s too heavy. Meanwhile, the MiG-29s being used instead are enormously troubled, according to India’s government auditor; more than 60 percent of their engines were withdrawn from service or rejected in just four years. The Vikrant will only be properly combat-ready by 2023 -- eight years behind schedule.

No one would expect India to match China’s defense spending head-to-head. China’s economy is four times the size of India’s; not surprisingly, its defense budget is at least three times larger. But the People’s Republic faces a parallel dilemma when confronting the U.S., whose military budget is about three times as big as China’s.


China has approached this disparity with a much clearer strategy in mind, as well as a far more rational evaluation of its relative strength. Rather than focusing on matching America’s carrier fleet, China first emphasized asymmetric weaponry such as ballistic missiles and submarines, a reflection of the Soviets’ successful Cold War strategy. Only now -- as its interests and capabilities have grown -- is it pouring resources into developing carrier groups.

By contrast, India’s carrier-first strategy has drained the Navy of resources and left it with just 13 conventional submarines in service. Eleven of those are more than a quarter-century old. The two new ones, amazingly, were commissioned and sent out to wander the deep sea without their main armament, torpedoes. Nor has India tried to counter China’s numerical superiority -- 70 to 15 -- in terms of submarines with specialized anti-submarine weaponry, including helicopters. The Indian fleet has less than 30 superannuated medium-sized anti-sub helicopters, the first of which was bought in 1971.

India’s problem isn’t ultimately a shortage of money; it’s a lack of forethought and political courage. Carriers are big and showy, and bolster national pride; diesel submarines don’t, or at least not to the same degree. A more rational strategy for India -- and its peers in Asia and the Pacific Rim who fear China’s growing military might -- would ensure that India’s submarine fleet and its anti-submarine armaments are capable enough on their own to deter attempts to control the Indian Ocean, while closer ties with other navies fill in the gaps.

That would require a clear-eyed appraisal of India’s defense and economic capabilities and requirements -- a problem when India doesn’t have an outline of its strategy on the lines of American or Chinese white papers, nor even a full-time defense minister. The Navy is fortunately starting to train more closely with the U.S. and other partners such as Japan, which should increase its effectiveness. But until it thinks harder about where its money should go, it’s going to have a tricky time keeping China out of its backyard.

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/arti...ina-s-new-aircraft-carrier-should-worry-india

India should stop worrying about China and take care of more pressing issues such as addressing mass poverty. China is beyond India's grasp. It always has been and always will be.


LOL These Indians can't take care of a simple vessel and want to compete with Chinese aircraft carriers.

I just find it funny China,Russia, and India are building missiles they claim that can kill a Nimitz in one hit, but then go on to build expensive aircraft carriers :dance3:

webcx-1-missile.jpg


Pakistan%2BAir%2BForce%2BJF-17%2Bfighter%2Bwith%2BCM-400AKG%2Bsupersonic%2Bground%2Bmissiles%2B1.jpg


3M-54E1.jpg


bl12_hyssm_BrahMos__835915g.jpg

What is so funny about that? Whether a missile can take out an aircraft carrier doesn't negate the fact you still need one. Nothing can replace an aircraft carrier.
 
I just find it funny China,Russia, and India are building missiles they claim that can kill a Nimitz in one hit, but then go on to build expensive aircraft carriers :dance3:

webcx-1-missile.jpg


Pakistan%2BAir%2BForce%2BJF-17%2Bfighter%2Bwith%2BCM-400AKG%2Bsupersonic%2Bground%2Bmissiles%2B1.jpg


3M-54E1.jpg


bl12_hyssm_BrahMos__835915g.jpg

Then why we built carrier? :o: Because we know that US don't have such missile to kill our carrier in one hit:p:
 
Most of Indian on PDF know nothing about how aircraft carrier combats .
in the past, I always persuaded these guys to find some files and learn something.
Now I give up .
Maybe the most technical stuff Indian could do is just programming.
Except that, they could understand nothing about modern technology.
 
p8-sharma-a-20170501-870x489.jpg

NEW YORK – The launch of China’s second aircraft carrier is an important and depressing moment for India. The Type 001A — likely to be named the Shandong — will give China an edge for the first time in the carrier race with its Asian rival, a literal 2-to-1 advantage. After decommissioning the INS Viraat earlier this year, the Indian Navy is down to a single carrier, the INS Vikramaditya. Worse, the Shandong has been built at China’s own giant shipyard at Dalian; the Vikramaditya is merely a repurposed 1980s-era Russian carrier formerly known as the Admiral Gorshkov.

Even more telling than the raw numbers is what China’s progress says about India’s ability to provide security in its own backyard. Chinese naval strategists have open designs on the Indian Ocean. According to one, “China needs two carrier strike groups in the West Pacific Ocean and two in the Indian Ocean.”

The government of Prime Minister Narendra Modi has talked a great deal about revitalizing the Indian military; it’s opened the defense sector up to greater foreign investment and is building a much-closer relationship with the U.S. military, largely with China in mind. But spending has lagged. Worse, successive governments simply don’t seem to have thought through where best to direct those scarce resources.

For its part, the Indian Navy has gone all-in on a strategy that emphasizes carrier battle groups. The idea is that India must dominate the ocean that bears its name and needs carriers to project power well beyond its shores. As a result, it wasted far too much time and treasure on the Admiral Gorshkov, which arrived from Russia six years late and at three times the cost that had initially been promised.

Its efforts to develop a homegrown carrier have been even more misbegotten. The navy plans to name, commission and float the INS Vikrant next year. At that point, the ship reportedly won’t have its aviation complex in place, or even anti-aircraft missiles. The navy has puzzlingly refused to buy India’s indigenous light fighter, the Tejas, saying it’s too heavy. Meanwhile, the MiG-29s being used instead are enormously troubled, according to India’s government auditor; more than 60 percent of their engines were withdrawn from service or rejected in just four years. The Vikrant will only be properly combat-ready by 2023 — eight years behind schedule.

No one would expect India to match China’s defense spending head to head. China’s economy is four times the size of India’s; not surprisingly, its defense budget is at least three times larger. But Beijing faces a parallel dilemma when confronting the United States, whose military budget is about three times as big as China’s.

China has approached this disparity with a much clearer strategy in mind, as well as a far more rational evaluation of its relative strength. Rather than focusing on matching America’s carrier fleet, China first emphasized asymmetric weaponry such as ballistic missiles and submarines, a reflection of the Soviets’ successful Cold War strategy. Only now — as its interests and capabilities have grown — is it pouring resources into developing carrier groups.

By contrast, India’s carrier-first strategy has drained the navy of resources and left it with just 13 conventional submarines in service. Eleven of those are more than a quarter-century old. The two new ones, amazingly, were commissioned and sent out to wander the deep sea without their main armament, torpedoes. Nor has India tried to counter China’s numerical superiority in submarines — 70 to 15 — by putting more emphasis on specialized anti-submarine weaponry, including helicopters. The Indian fleet has less than 30 superannuated medium-size anti-sub helicopters, the first of which was bought in 1971.

India’s problem isn’t ultimately a shortage of money; it’s a lack of forethought and political courage. Carriers are big and showy, and bolster national pride; diesel submarines don’t, or at least not to the same degree. A more rational strategy for India — and its peers in Asia and the Pacific Rim who fear China’s growing military might — would ensure that India’s submarine fleet and its anti-submarine armaments are capable enough on their own to deter attempts to control the Indian Ocean, while closer ties with other navies fill in the gaps.

That would require a clear-eyed appraisal of India’s defense and economic capabilities and requirements — a problem when India doesn’t have an outline of its strategy on the lines of American or Chinese white papers, nor even a full-time defense minister. The navy is fortunately starting to train more closely with the U.S. and other partners such as Japan, which should increase its effectiveness. But until it thinks harder about where its money should go, it’s going to have a tricky time keeping China out of its backyard.

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/opinion...uscular-naval-force-worry-india/#.WQXBhWfYWUk
 
Let us be realistic here.

China sees India as no threat. China is ramping it's military to confront the US and no other country is even in the picture.
 
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