When INS Vikrant (R11) gave nightmare to Pakistan's Navy!

[mymeaningislion]

Actually with IN deploying the P-8s and Brahmos in almost every major ship, the PAk military is pretty much in a major pickle. Armed with Brahmos any major ship in the IN can pretty much dominate the sea out to a diameter of 600km. The threat then comes from PN's subs which we find themselves being ruthlessly targeted by the P-8I and its deadly arsenals of MK-54 Fishawk next gen torpedoes and moreover, it too can hold its own against any surface threats since it can deploy the Harpoon. Moreover, the IN is soon to acquire the S-70I and 75-90 more helos for Anti Sub warfare, With Vikramaditya and Vikrant, IN will operate 45 Mig-29K and IAC-2 will come along sometime next decade perhaps deploying Rafales or even the F-35s. With Brahmos orders surpassing over 2000-3000+ missiles and all service deploying it in adequate number very quickly, the window where Pak in a conventional war could cause any serious damage is fast closing. As the decade ends Pak will be outgunned in every sense of the word and even an extensive conventional war will be exhaustive. LCA, MKI, Rafales, Upgraded Mirages, Migs, tons of Syder SAMs, Akash SAM, MR/LR SAM, tons of brahmos, Nirbhays, Prahaars, Brahmos-2 etc. will be too much trouble for Pak. By then if all continues Pak would have further deteriorated into a terror infested waste land. Pak will always be on the lossing end.

and the brain farted....smells nasty....

 

[Gessler]

If PN really learnt ANYTHING from the 71 debacle - it will first strive to improve the capabilities
of the surface fleet. How do the present day PN main surface combatants stand when met in
combat with an IN fleet?

Kindly compare the offensive/defensive measures onboard each warship-classes and you will get the
answer.

PN's lifeline are it's submarine fleet only, The surface fleet is just as hopeless as it was in 1971 when
compared vis-à-vis IN, maybe even worse than before.

 

[Shadow_Hunter]

I have answered your question in my first post.

Also, you should consider that the disparity between conventional forces bleeds the strategic balance, which is dangerous.

No my question was what is stopping us from bombing Gwadar? obviously every nation factors in retaliatory attacks by adversary using cruise missiles, and it is in focus of our navy as well. So is there anything other than nuclear weapons which can deter india from attacking Gwadar via air? What is your opinion?

Basically my point was that we shouldn't consider that only IN will fight PN and IAF will fight PAF. In war all assets will be deployed according to need so members shouldn't narrow down to comparing IN ships to PN ships when comparing capabilities.

 

[Mitro]

I am sorry for your lost of aircraft carrier please except my deepest condolences.

And when you wake up please explain me why CM400AKG is not going to prove effective against Indian Air Craft Carrier ,


Comparing IA wid US navy Really .

You are back ?

please explain to us Indians that how will cm400 even target aircraft carrier, let alone hitting it, disabling it.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian...akg-tough-job-indian-navy-31.html#post4398140

 

[GR!FF!N]

In Pakistan's context an aircraft carrier is rather useless to India unless its in the Persian Gulf, then it can attack from behind, otherwise i dont see how the AC will change anything.
Its just an expensive toy which the Pakistanis will try to destroy to demoralize India and Indians will keep far away from the battlefield (In my Opinion)

we barely need to even blockade,let alone confront with PN...IAF is more than capable to perform this kind of job...also,IN's superiority in IOR is quite unchallenged..but then again,its India's threat perception and it'll give India to deliver more powerful punches in distant water..

 

[S.Y.A]

No my question was what is stopping us from bombing Gwadar? obviously every nation factors in retaliatory attacks by adversary using cruise missiles, and it is in focus of our navy as well. So is there anything other than nuclear weapons which can deter india from attacking Gwadar via air? What is your opinion?

the chinese copy of s-300, zdk-03 AEW&C, P3s, PAF's jet fighters+navy's own aviation wing(ehich currently has some mirages and maybe replaced by jf-17)

 

[Shadow_Hunter]

the chinese copy of s-300, zdk-03 AEW&C, P3s, PAF's jet fighters+navy's own aviation wing(ehich currently has some mirages and maybe replaced by jf-17)

You missed the point. Read the second para of my post.

 

[Agnostic_Indian]

I am sorry for your lost of aircraft carrier please except my deepest condolences.

And when you wake up please explain me why CM400AKG is not going to prove effective against Indian Air Craft Carrier ,


Comparing IA wid US navy Really .

check the link I have posted for my argument, as for US navy and IN, I did not compare both navy's as a whole but just pointed out the fact that USN operate at a distance from 370km(distance can changes with mission, formation, threat perception etc, it's not a set distance) with comparatively lesser range fighter, then India can operate carrier at 500km distance with mig29k which has more range(fuel) than fa18Sh. even if you that it as a comparison, it only shows that US is superior to India because it operates it's carrier more close to enemy shore because it has enough capability to protect the carrier even from such short distance, where as India is not capable as is that's why we operate further backward.

 

[S.Y.A]

You missed the point. Read the second para of my post.

i got the point, you are saying that IAF will also be deployed against PN, so i am just stating what PN and PAF can use to deter an attack by air. an attack from sea can be deterred by subs and MPAs and of course navy's mirages, about the ships I have no illusions they are old and much less armed than the indian ones

 

[Pakchina]

Pakistan itself is a nightmare for Scatland. Without firing a bullet, the infamous INS Su.... Indian Navy Submarine has already been sunk. So, the INS Vikrant which is still being fitted by Russian, Israelis, US and EU firms could also face the same fate. We, Pakistanis with our outdated weapons and AK 47, we are not afraid of the so called Indian Tiger paper Army equipped with US M777, US Apache gunships, ISraeli Barak 8, Russian SU MKI, French Scorpene, French Mirage 2000, Naval Italina Otomelera Gun, Italian replenishment ship, US LPD, US C17 Globemaster, US C130, Frech Air to Air Mica missiles, US cluster bombs, Israeli Tavor etc. RIP for the Scatlanders sailors. India is a shame to the world, after announcing the launch of the INS Vikrant, this is celebrated by a firecracker festival (or by another Indian milestone), the sinking and bursting in flame of its renovated submarine. India can never accomplish something without this turning to be a fiasco. Congratulation to Scatland.

 

[Shadow_Hunter]

Pakistan itself is a nightmare for Scatland. Without firing a bullet, the infamous INS Su.... Indian Navy Submarine has already been sunk. So, the INS Vikrant which is still being fitted by Russian, Israelis, US and EU firms could also face the same fate. We, Pakistanis with our outdated weapons and AK 47, we are not afraid of the so called Indian Tiger paper Army equipped with US M777, US Apache gunships, ISraeli Barak 8, Russian SU MKI, French Scorpene, French Mirage 2000, Naval Italina Otomelera Gun, Italian replenishment ship, US LPD, US C17 Globemaster, US C130, Frech Air to Air Mica missiles, US cluster bombs, Israeli Tavor etc. RIP for the Scatlanders sailors. India is a shame to the world, after announcing the launch of the INS Vikrant, this is celebrated by a firecracker festival (or by another Indian milestone), the sinking and bursting in flame of its renovated submarine. India can never accomplish something without this turning to be a fiasco. Congratulation to Scatland.

Yes, I understand that this hope is the only thing which will let you sleep tonight. Because you know the real naval standing of your country.

 

[Mitro]

Because of Early warning system we cannot hide the aircraft carrier battle group even we are around 500km away from karachi they will be able to locate and attack it from different platform like fighter and submarine .

1)Saab 2000 AEW&C (Airborne Early Warning & Control)
From its standard operational altitude of 6000 metres (19,685 feet, or FL200) the radar has a maximum range of 450 km (279 miles). Against a fighter-sized target effective range is approximately 330 km (205 miles). Seaborne targets can be detected at 320 km (198 miles),

2)ZDK-03: A variant designed specifically for export to the Pakistan Air Force (PAF). Consists of a Chinese AESA radar mounted on the Y-8F600 platform.[14] The radar is reported to have a greater range than that of the PAF's Saab 2000 Erieye AEW&C radar[15] and the aircraft incorporates open architecture electronics to make future upgrades easier to implement.[16] Delivery of the first aircraft to the Pakistan Air Force was expected by the end of 2010.[15] The first aircraft was reported to have been delivered in November 2011 by Pakistani media.

3)P-3C : The AN/APS-137B(V)5 Radar is capable of multimode operation to provide periscope and small target detection, navigation, weather avoidance, long range surface search and Synthetic Aperture Radar (SAR) and ISAR imaging modes. SAR provides detection, identification, and classification capability of stationary targets. ISAR provides detection, classification, and tracking capability against surface and surfaced submarine targets. The AN/APS-137B(V)5 ISAR provides range, bearing, and positional data on all selected targets, and provides medium or high resolution images for display and recording.
The EP-2060 Pulse Analyzer works in conjunction with the AN/ALR-66C(V)3 to detect, direction find, quantify, process, and display electromagnetic signals emitted by land, ship, and airborne radar systems.

Now with these platform are at enemy disposal how can a aircraft carrier be safe around 500km ?

check the link I have posted for my argument, as for US navy and IN, I did not compare both navy's as a whole but just pointed out the fact that USN operate at a distance from 370km(distance can changes with mission, formation, threat perception etc, it's not a set distance) with comparatively lesser range fighter, then India can operate carrier at 500km distance with mig29k which has more range(fuel) than fa18Sh. even if you that it as a comparison, it only shows that US is superior to India because it operates it's carrier more close to enemy shore because it has enough capability to protect the carrier even from such short distance, where as India is not capable as is that's why we operate further backward.

 

[Agnostic_Indian]

Because of Early warning system we cannot hide the aircraft carrier battle group even we are around 500km away from karachi they will be able to locate and attack it from different platform like fighter and submarine .

1)Saab 2000 AEW&C (Airborne Early Warning & Control)
From its standard operational altitude of 6000 metres (19,685 feet, or FL200) the radar has a maximum range of 450 km (279 miles). Against a fighter-sized target effective range is approximately 330 km (205 miles). Seaborne targets can be detected at 320 km (198 miles),

2)ZDK-03: A variant designed specifically for export to the Pakistan Air Force (PAF). Consists of a Chinese AESA radar mounted on the Y-8F600 platform.[14] The radar is reported to have a greater range than that of the PAF's Saab 2000 Erieye AEW&C radar[15] and the aircraft incorporates open architecture electronics to make future upgrades easier to implement.[16] Delivery of the first aircraft to the Pakistan Air Force was expected by the end of 2010.[15] The first aircraft was reported to have been delivered in November 2011 by Pakistani media.

3)P-3C : The AN/APS-137B(V)5 Radar is capable of multimode operation to provide periscope and small target detection, navigation, weather avoidance, long range surface search and Synthetic Aperture Radar (SAR) and ISAR imaging modes. SAR provides detection, identification, and classification capability of stationary targets. ISAR provides detection, classification, and tracking capability against surface and surfaced submarine targets. The AN/APS-137B(V)5 ISAR provides range, bearing, and positional data on all selected targets, and provides medium or high resolution images for display and recording.
The EP-2060 Pulse Analyzer works in conjunction with the AN/ALR-66C(V)3 to detect, direction find, quantify, process, and display electromagnetic signals emitted by land, ship, and airborne radar systems.

Now with these platform are at enemy disposal how can a aircraft carrier be safe around 500km ?

even with your sab Erieye air to sea/ground detection is not limited by radar range, but by the curvature nature of earth, that's why it can't see ground targets beyond 350km distance.

 

[Mitro]

But still detect mig29 from 350km and can locate the aircraft carrier battle group and direct submarine and other platform towards the carrier .so i dont think putting aircraft carrier in indo - pak war is good idea and thats why indian navy did not put aircraft carrier against pakistan .

even with your sab Erieye air to sea/ground detection is not limited by radar range, but by the curvature nature of earth, that's why it can't see ground targets beyond 350km distance.

 

[Agnostic_Indian]

But still detect mig29 from 350km and can locate the aircraft carrier battle group and direct submarine and other platform towards the carrier .so i dont think putting aircraft carrier in indo - pak war is good idea and thats why indian navy did not put aircraft carrier against pakistan .

so what if it detects mig29k ? mig's are any way is there for combat, and protect surface ships and it can hold on against jf17. as for directing submarines towards the rough location, these submarines must go through, Indian submarines,frigates and destroyers, anti submarines helicopters,p8i, etc to reach to carrier.